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Linux Sucks
| Stop complaining |
Jesus, okay daddy. I thought I had every right to complain, constitution or something like that.
| Linux has protections and you overrode them with sudo. |
That's not even close to being logically accurate or in anyway have anything to do with this situation.
To install a package, you use sudo. However, it still gives you PLENTY of details about what you're downloading then asks if it's what you want.
| If you're think you're fragile and can't be trusted with sudo |
Did I say that?
| But really, how many times are you going to repeat this stuff? |
I was replying to people, its how communication works.
Gee, that pot of oil is really hot, I should wear gloves .... wait, I saw someone doing on youtube, I will be alright.
So you tip the hot oil all over yourself, set fire to your house, spend next 3 months in the burns unit at hospital. You then sue everyone, including the paramedics, nurses, doctors, and surgeons that help you, plus the makers of the pot and the stove top.
There is a growing list of things that you could have done, but you argue with all those trying to help. If you were keen to learn, you would take the advice on board, but no not for you. Maybe you should stick to Windows if that is easier for you, big boy toys too hard for you. But reality probably is that this whole thing is contrived to generate traffic, congrats :+|.
Was it just 1 file, yet you had -R option? If so you deserve everything you get.
So you tip the hot oil all over yourself, set fire to your house, spend next 3 months in the burns unit at hospital. You then sue everyone, including the paramedics, nurses, doctors, and surgeons that help you, plus the makers of the pot and the stove top.
There is a growing list of things that you could have done, but you argue with all those trying to help. If you were keen to learn, you would take the advice on board, but no not for you. Maybe you should stick to Windows if that is easier for you, big boy toys too hard for you. But reality probably is that this whole thing is contrived to generate traffic, congrats :+|.
| zapshe wrote: |
|---|
It was for my PHP file, not a package. |
Was it just 1 file, yet you had -R option? If so you deserve everything you get.
| ne555 wrote: |
|---|
| I prefer symbolic mode chmod u+x,g+wx,o+x |
That's a great idea, probably best practise :+)
TheIdeasMan.ThingsLearnt += 3; // Thanks Albatross & ne555 I haven't had to do chmod with sticky bits much if at all.
| There is a growing list of things that you could have done, but you argue with all those trying to help |
I think you're completely missing the point. I'm not saying there weren't things I couldn't have done - I'm saying it makes more sense for Linux to not have this issue to begin with.
I'm arguing a specific point - I'm not arguing that what they're saying wouldn't have prevented the issue.
| If you were keen to learn, you would take the advice on board, but no not for you. |
I didn't post this to learn, I posted to rant.
Everyone getting their panties in a twist over an opinion. Not only that, no one is actually arguing against the points I've made, just making emotional arguments. Where am I?
Do you imply that users should be treated like idiots, with plenty of hand-holding and spoon-feeding, because "we" know better what is good for them? IMHO, such "we" are worst of the worst.
If you would have (even though you claim it to be nigh impossible) "successfully" given "OS destroying" command on Windows, how would you recover from that? How easy is it to find the instructions for recovery procedures?
I have Windows "Documents folder" on focus and type Ctrl-a Shift-Del. Simple typo, isn't it? Am I safe?
Is 'sudo' the only method to gain elevated privileges in your Pi?
Remember: It is humane to err, but only God can make mistakes.*
*According to some religions
If you would have (even though you claim it to be nigh impossible) "successfully" given "OS destroying" command on Windows, how would you recover from that? How easy is it to find the instructions for recovery procedures?
I have Windows "Documents folder" on focus and type Ctrl-a Shift-Del. Simple typo, isn't it? Am I safe?
Is 'sudo' the only method to gain elevated privileges in your Pi?
Remember: It is humane to err, but only God can make mistakes.*
*According to some religions
| Do you imply that users should be treated like idiots, with plenty of hand-holding and spoon-feeding, because "we" know better what is good for them? |
I didn't even remotely imply that. A prompt asking if you're sure is hardly treating the user like and idiot.
However, there's nothing wrong with assuming the user is an idiot to an extent - isn't that why a program needs to be able to detect bad input? If you ask for an integer, should you assume the user might give you a letter? Or assume the user is Godly and would never do such a thing?
| If you... "successfully" given "OS destroying" command on Windows, how would you recover from that? How easy is it to find the instructions for recovery procedures? |
If you can't find a way to recover Windows, your Googling skills must be non-existent.
| (even though you claim it to be nigh impossible) |
Could you please quote me on where I said that? My claim is that it's infinitely easier to shoot yourself in the foot on Linux.
There's a meme about deleting System32 on Windows. Can you delete it? No, not without knowing what you're doing. An average user can't destroy their OS by deleting System32. However, its completely possible to do so by changing with permissions.
I'm not even arguing Linux should implement this. All I'm saying is if a typo on a command could destroy your OS, maybe that command (or the specific OS destroying command) should give you a warning to ensure you actually want to do that.
If you disagree with that, I respectfully ask you stop programming and read a book.
You'd also, logically, be very upset that apt get has the nerve to ask you if you actually want to download a package!
| I have Windows "Documents folder" on focus and type Ctrl-a Shift-Del. Simple typo, isn't it? Am I safe? |
Sorry, not sorry, but you're completely incompetent for even saying this. Try to do it. Go ahead. It won't delete anything. You know why? IT'LL ASK YOU, "Hey, this is gonna delete all that stuff, are you sure you want to do that?"
The brain power is through the god-damn roof. This is not even taking into account how DIFFICULT it is to accidently press Shift-Delete - nothing compared to accidently hitting enter.
| Is 'sudo' the only method to gain elevated privileges in your Pi? |
its the one I was using. Should I not use it? Should it be removed as a command?
| *According to some religions |
Yes, thank you for bringing that infallible concept.
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> However, there's nothing wrong with assuming the user is an idiot to an extent -
> isn't that why a program needs to be able to detect bad input?
Everyone makes mistakes; idiots may make them more often. Protecting the user - even the most intelligent, alert user - against a one-off careless, but catastrophic error is a characteristic of good design.
> isn't that why a program needs to be able to detect bad input?
Everyone makes mistakes; idiots may make them more often. Protecting the user - even the most intelligent, alert user - against a one-off careless, but catastrophic error is a characteristic of good design.
I honestly dislike the bitumen in this thread.
zapshe is a young dude who is intelligent enough to do things that most 20-somethings couldn’t. And he is willing to try things and learn.
He also tends to rant. So what? We’ve all ranted about something before.
*nix is well-known for the danger of its superuser state. For those in the know, the long-standing rule is:
• type the command slowly WITHOUT pressing Enter
• SIT ON YOUR HANDS
• read the command SLOWLY, making sure to re-consider the ramifications of what you are about to do
• IFF you are certain that the commend is correct and going to do ONLY what you want:
○ Press Enter
It does not matter what command you are typing — even if it is
The hype about
I haven’t read all the thread, but consider myself at this point to have read enough, and said enough.
zapshe is a young dude who is intelligent enough to do things that most 20-somethings couldn’t. And he is willing to try things and learn.
He also tends to rant. So what? We’ve all ranted about something before.
*nix is well-known for the danger of its superuser state. For those in the know, the long-standing rule is:
• type the command slowly WITHOUT pressing Enter
• SIT ON YOUR HANDS
• read the command SLOWLY, making sure to re-consider the ramifications of what you are about to do
• IFF you are certain that the commend is correct and going to do ONLY what you want:
○ Press Enter
It does not matter what command you are typing — even if it is
ls you should condition yourself to treat it as one that will hose your system.The hype about
sudo ignores this little sticking point — the vulnerabilities sudo fixes have nothing to do with the commands you may type — but it makes it a whole lot easier to make a mistake, since the elevated sudo-privilege continues for a short time instead of having a clearly demarcated end point. Good advice, rarely followed, is to open a separate shell to do anything with sudo (Use F6 or use a separate terminal emulator instance under X).I haven’t read all the thread, but consider myself at this point to have read enough, and said enough.
| Duthomhas wrote: |
|---|
| I honestly dislike the bitumen in this thread. |
Isn't bitumen useful for making the road ahead smoother and more of a joy to travel on? 😬😉
Sure, if one doesn’t mind walking over/around/past the dead bodies of all his prior friends and comrades stuffed in the jagged holes along the way.
rainbows • lollipops • sugar • https://www.google.com/search?q=can't+we+all+just+be+friends&tbm=isch • unicorns • puppies
rainbows • lollipops • sugar • https://www.google.com/search?q=can't+we+all+just+be+friends&tbm=isch • unicorns • puppies
@Duthomhas I don't understand your use of bitumen. I just googled the word to see if there was a meaning I wasn't familiar with and I got nothing useful. I can make a guess based on context, but I've never heard the word use this way. Is this a new internet slang the dictionaries haven't picked up on yet?
| zapshe is a young dude who is intelligent enough to do things that most 20-somethings couldn’t |
Gonna make me blush 0-0
I had no idea that song was written by Smash Mouth.
| Be excellent to each other and party on dudes. 🎸🤘 |
May the rock and roll become the sand between your toes.
@Grey Wolf +1
@wilsonphillps05
It is actually a very old metaphor.
Bitumen is a deep black, tarry substance for which there were many ancient uses. These days the lay person would call it “pitch” and people primarily associate it with asphalt and roofing tiles. It is also used in modern plastics and other petroleum products, including fuels.
Additionally, it has a very harsh, bitter taste and its smell burns the nose hairs when hot.
As a metaphor it can be used to express:
• disagreeableness
• darkness
• unkindness
• ire
—all of which perpetuates itself as if it were a sticky, gooey mass that you cannot touch without becoming stuck yourself.
@wilsonphillps05
It is actually a very old metaphor.
Bitumen is a deep black, tarry substance for which there were many ancient uses. These days the lay person would call it “pitch” and people primarily associate it with asphalt and roofing tiles. It is also used in modern plastics and other petroleum products, including fuels.
Additionally, it has a very harsh, bitter taste and its smell burns the nose hairs when hot.
As a metaphor it can be used to express:
• disagreeableness
• darkness
• unkindness
• ire
—all of which perpetuates itself as if it were a sticky, gooey mass that you cannot touch without becoming stuck yourself.
Now for something thoroughly pedantic:
The original meaning of su was special user when logging in as root. But probably fairly early in the piece, superuser was coined (maybe out of ignorance), and became stuck in popular usage ever since.
Interestingly, on my system, slightly different use case:
It would be cool to find the original manual that says special user
This is what I found so far:
https://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/linux-login-as-super-user/
The original meaning of su was special user when logging in as root. But probably fairly early in the piece, superuser was coined (maybe out of ignorance), and became stuck in popular usage ever since.
Interestingly, on my system, slightly different use case:
| man su wrote: |
|---|
su - run a command with substitute user and group ID |
It would be cool to find the original manual that says special user
This is what I found so far:
https://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/linux-login-as-super-user/
you have some blind spots. Linux can be secured very tight, if you apply a well educated security person to the server who keeps stuff up to date and follows best practices and so on. Windows too -- the average windows box is a train wreck but you can lock them up and keep them clean. Its not easy to do for either OS at the top levels, and its a constant battle ... there is a reason they make big bucks.
In either case a typical home user install is not going to be terribly resistant to hackery. I just let em do what they will, I have no social media apart from this site, and no money/business on the machine. What they gonna do, mess up a video game? There isnt anything to steal / do :) I mean, I update, have AV/firewall/router wall/etc but its nowhere near industry level paranoid.
In either case a typical home user install is not going to be terribly resistant to hackery. I just let em do what they will, I have no social media apart from this site, and no money/business on the machine. What they gonna do, mess up a video game? There isnt anything to steal / do :) I mean, I update, have AV/firewall/router wall/etc but its nowhere near industry level paranoid.
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The Unix Programmer's Manual - November 3, 1971 has su as super-user.
https://www.bell-labs.com/usr/dmr/www/man13.pdf
https://www.bell-labs.com/usr/dmr/www/man13.pdf
In pick-up country it was quite common to see a sticker on the backs up pick-ups showing Calvin pissing on either a Ford logo or a Chevy logo.
While for most people this was just good fun, some people did think that Ford or Chevy pick-ups suck.
I don’t think they were being logical neither sucked if they did people would not buy them.
Interestingly the Dodge boys almost never entered this discussion.
While for most people this was just good fun, some people did think that Ford or Chevy pick-ups suck.
I don’t think they were being logical neither sucked if they did people would not buy them.
Interestingly the Dodge boys almost never entered this discussion.