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Alright, tar and feather me, is the best way to do windows stuff properly just to dual boot?
Currently, I'm running ubuntu as my sole OS. I can fire up a VM if I REALLY need to use photoshop or something, but I've got a couple old towers with XP on it, or a complete piece of shit running windows 10 horribly.
So I need to upgrade my PC, and it appears that the budget will support a PC like I've never had before. I've spent my life learning how to do things on computers that are already obsolete when it comes to whatever task I want to learn. Now that I can get a decent PC, I want to try some of these so called "game" things. I've got a 500gb SSD sitting here in my drawer, I'm thinking I'll just make that entire drive dedicated to windows bullshit, so just install Win10 on it, and dual boot. That feels so gross. I've also got a decade of experience working with Photoshop, and I'm sure GIMP would serve me JUST fine, but until I sit down and dedicate some time to actually LEARNING it, it is just a frustrating piece of software, my current "good" PC can't quite do photoshop in a virtual machine, but I realize that any decent PC won't have issue with that.
I suppose I could have it boot into windows, and load a ubuntu VM right off the hop, and functionally that should work fine, but that grosses me out even more than dual booting.
https://azar.pro
Thanks
So I need to upgrade my PC, and it appears that the budget will support a PC like I've never had before. I've spent my life learning how to do things on computers that are already obsolete when it comes to whatever task I want to learn. Now that I can get a decent PC, I want to try some of these so called "game" things. I've got a 500gb SSD sitting here in my drawer, I'm thinking I'll just make that entire drive dedicated to windows bullshit, so just install Win10 on it, and dual boot. That feels so gross. I've also got a decade of experience working with Photoshop, and I'm sure GIMP would serve me JUST fine, but until I sit down and dedicate some time to actually LEARNING it, it is just a frustrating piece of software, my current "good" PC can't quite do photoshop in a virtual machine, but I realize that any decent PC won't have issue with that.
I suppose I could have it boot into windows, and load a ubuntu VM right off the hop, and functionally that should work fine, but that grosses me out even more than dual booting.
https://azar.pro
Thanks
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Windows grosses you out? Get to know it a little better :)
Did you want to buy a new PC altogether or upgrade your old towers? I'd recommend buying a prebuild, you can use this website to get an idea of specs:
https://gpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Nvidia-GTX-1060-6GB-vs-Nvidia-RTX-3060/3639vs4105
This link is comparing the GTX 1060 6GB with the RTX 3060. 1060 was and still is a decent card, the 3060 is a much better card that came out more recently.
https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i7-10750H-vs-Intel-Core-i7-9700K/m1053158vs4030
This link is comparing a laptop CPU (the one I have in mine!) and a pretty good desktop CPU.
These are just to give you an idea. I wouldn't spend more than $1000 for a computer with similar specs to the GTX 1060 and 10750H. You'll usually find a lot of 1660 GPUs floating around right now in prebuilds.
As long as your specs are at least comparable to the weakest specs that I linked to you, you should be fine running VMs and games.
I'd recommend a lot youtube for you to see what's best for you.
Did you want to buy a new PC altogether or upgrade your old towers? I'd recommend buying a prebuild, you can use this website to get an idea of specs:
https://gpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Nvidia-GTX-1060-6GB-vs-Nvidia-RTX-3060/3639vs4105
This link is comparing the GTX 1060 6GB with the RTX 3060. 1060 was and still is a decent card, the 3060 is a much better card that came out more recently.
https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i7-10750H-vs-Intel-Core-i7-9700K/m1053158vs4030
This link is comparing a laptop CPU (the one I have in mine!) and a pretty good desktop CPU.
These are just to give you an idea. I wouldn't spend more than $1000 for a computer with similar specs to the GTX 1060 and 10750H. You'll usually find a lot of 1660 GPUs floating around right now in prebuilds.
As long as your specs are at least comparable to the weakest specs that I linked to you, you should be fine running VMs and games.
I'd recommend a lot youtube for you to see what's best for you.
Dual boot is relatively simple solution. With UEFI and GPT it is way easier than before; GPT is not limited to four partitions like DOS partition table, and each OS (vendor) has its own directory for bootloader in GPT's ESP (EFI System Partition).
With dedicated disks separation is even more clear as each disk should be able to have ESP (and only one OS's bootloader in it). You can still config your bootloaders to offer chainload the other OS.
What dual boot can't do, but virtualization does, is running both OS simultaneously. That allows more ways to transfer data between them. With dual boot you can naturally mount same volume for transfer. (Volume, whose FS both can mount.)
With dedicated disks separation is even more clear as each disk should be able to have ESP (and only one OS's bootloader in it). You can still config your bootloaders to offer chainload the other OS.
What dual boot can't do, but virtualization does, is running both OS simultaneously. That allows more ways to transfer data between them. With dual boot you can naturally mount same volume for transfer. (Volume, whose FS both can mount.)
| We do what we must Because we can |
| ¿too weak a reaction? |
What? I should slap him around? Find his family? Program a missile to fire at his house? Turn his life upside down? Then advertise Windows by telling him I did everything to ruin his life without ever touching Linux?
you can run a cloud windows box, but I do not know how much of that (if any?) you can get for free. You could take a look, a lot of cloud stuff is free for small time use cases ... they do that so you can learn their systems so you will go work somewhere that pays them big money, it helps everyone...
a budget winx computer is very cheap. Windows computers get expensive when you want:
- small size, like a laptop will cost more than the same power in a desktop
- graphics. graphics cards are thru the roof. But you only 'need' one to do 3d games (or cad / 3d like work), not 2d image processing.
- SSD add $$ to the price tag. Its not needed at all.
- other high end crap like sound cards and liquid cooling and I9 processor and such.
if you can't afford a cheap windows computer, dual booting an older box will work but win 10 is a hog. You can go online to see what services and junk can be disabled to make it run better. More ram will help, if you can get a stick or two.
even a 1060 card is expensive if you are on a tight budget. Just skip that and go for something like https://discountelectronics.com/dell-optiplex-780-sff-windows-10-computer?ab_version=B&gclid=CjwKCAjwhaaKBhBcEiwA8acsHBoVdRrrlUMxZsM6ZWyEWcZC1Um341kyL4jVzFcFUB7GPCFXxLd17xoC6roQAvD_BwE
refurbs of slightly dated equipment is very low cost, as you can see from this link, but it won't do much gaming.
to contrast, my new pc cost $2500 USD and has I9 (10 core, 20 cpu whatever that means), 3k series graphics card, SSD, and 64GB ram.
a budget winx computer is very cheap. Windows computers get expensive when you want:
- small size, like a laptop will cost more than the same power in a desktop
- graphics. graphics cards are thru the roof. But you only 'need' one to do 3d games (or cad / 3d like work), not 2d image processing.
- SSD add $$ to the price tag. Its not needed at all.
- other high end crap like sound cards and liquid cooling and I9 processor and such.
if you can't afford a cheap windows computer, dual booting an older box will work but win 10 is a hog. You can go online to see what services and junk can be disabled to make it run better. More ram will help, if you can get a stick or two.
even a 1060 card is expensive if you are on a tight budget. Just skip that and go for something like https://discountelectronics.com/dell-optiplex-780-sff-windows-10-computer?ab_version=B&gclid=CjwKCAjwhaaKBhBcEiwA8acsHBoVdRrrlUMxZsM6ZWyEWcZC1Um341kyL4jVzFcFUB7GPCFXxLd17xoC6roQAvD_BwE
refurbs of slightly dated equipment is very low cost, as you can see from this link, but it won't do much gaming.
to contrast, my new pc cost $2500 USD and has I9 (10 core, 20 cpu whatever that means), 3k series graphics card, SSD, and 64GB ram.
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@jonnin
I'll have to disagree with you a lot here.
A good graphics card provides many advantages - you run multiple monitors more smoothly, you get good Hardware Acceleration for programs that support it, can video edit, play games, etc.. A good GPU is always at the top of my list. Though technically more of a luxury item if not "needed", he did want to try his hand in gaming he said.
The exact opposite! An SSD is the BEST upgrade you can get if you don't have one already. An SSD is VERY important, it replaces the slowest link in the chain - the Hard Drive. Windows as an OS and programs in whole work better, rarely crash, and your computer won't "slow down" over time when you have an SSD.
An SSD IS needed. If nothing else, have Windows run off the SSD. Once you have an SSD in your system, you can never go back to pathetic hard drives. Its why Apple doesn't even allow you to configure ANY system with a hard drive - SSDs only.
He said his budget now will support a PC like he's "never had before", so I'd say a 1060 is actually too low spec.. Should buy something powerful, like from the RTX 30 series that will be powerful for years to come.
I really really really can't condone anyone purchasing this computer. You'd need to upgrade the storage to an SSD, upgrade RAM to 16GB - 8GB if you're broke, and add wifi/bluetooth capabilities if needed. This brings the total to over $300 just to have a machine that will... run?
There are no fine details on the specs of the machine - which matter. The CPU is garbage that I would literally throw away. I'd be disappointed in phones with dual core CPUs these days, let alone a desktop.
You wouldn't even have the storage space to install a game. You wouldn't have a CPU powerful enough to launch a game made after 2000. You wouldn't have a dedicated GPU to try and make up for the CPU that fails at even shitting itself.
Its the kind of computer I'd expect to get a blue screen while trying to give you a blue screen.
You're ready to rock and roll with that setup!
I'll have to disagree with you a lot here.
| graphics. graphics cards are thru the roof. But you only 'need' one to do 3d games (or cad / 3d like work), not 2d image processing. |
A good graphics card provides many advantages - you run multiple monitors more smoothly, you get good Hardware Acceleration for programs that support it, can video edit, play games, etc.. A good GPU is always at the top of my list. Though technically more of a luxury item if not "needed", he did want to try his hand in gaming he said.
| SSD add $$ to the price tag. Its not needed at all. |
The exact opposite! An SSD is the BEST upgrade you can get if you don't have one already. An SSD is VERY important, it replaces the slowest link in the chain - the Hard Drive. Windows as an OS and programs in whole work better, rarely crash, and your computer won't "slow down" over time when you have an SSD.
An SSD IS needed. If nothing else, have Windows run off the SSD. Once you have an SSD in your system, you can never go back to pathetic hard drives. Its why Apple doesn't even allow you to configure ANY system with a hard drive - SSDs only.
| even a 1060 card is expensive if you are on a tight budget |
He said his budget now will support a PC like he's "never had before", so I'd say a 1060 is actually too low spec.. Should buy something powerful, like from the RTX 30 series that will be powerful for years to come.
| https://discountelectronics.com/dell-optiplex-780-sff-windows-10-computer?ab_version=B&gclid=CjwKCAjwhaaKBhBcEiwA8acsHBoVdRrrlUMxZsM6ZWyEWcZC1Um341kyL4jVzFcFUB7GPCFXxLd17xoC6roQAvD_BwE |
I really really really can't condone anyone purchasing this computer. You'd need to upgrade the storage to an SSD, upgrade RAM to 16GB - 8GB if you're broke, and add wifi/bluetooth capabilities if needed. This brings the total to over $300 just to have a machine that will... run?
There are no fine details on the specs of the machine - which matter. The CPU is garbage that I would literally throw away. I'd be disappointed in phones with dual core CPUs these days, let alone a desktop.
| it won't do much gaming |
You wouldn't even have the storage space to install a game. You wouldn't have a CPU powerful enough to launch a game made after 2000. You wouldn't have a dedicated GPU to try and make up for the CPU that fails at even shitting itself.
Its the kind of computer I'd expect to get a blue screen while trying to give you a blue screen.
| to contrast, my new pc cost $2500 USD and has I9 (10 core, 20 cpu whatever that means), 3k series graphics card, SSD, and 64GB ram. |
You're ready to rock and roll with that setup!
I did not see OP ask about hardware or opinions about various OS.
The question was whether to confine the abomination* into VM or grant it a piece of metal.
*Some things might be the best thing since sliced bread in the Lounge, but not in Unix/Linux Programming.
The question was whether to confine the abomination* into VM or grant it a piece of metal.
*Some things might be the best thing since sliced bread in the Lounge, but not in Unix/Linux Programming.
Getting GPU passthrough working (letting a virtualized OS make full use of your discrete graphics card with negligible overhead) is an involved and somewhat technical process (or at least it used to be).
If one of your uses of Windows is going to be running games on it, I'd lean toward a dual-boot setup, if only to avoid that headache. It's somewhat inconvenient, but if you're booting off of an SSD it generally doesn't take all that long to switch between the OSes these days.
-Albatross
If one of your uses of Windows is going to be running games on it, I'd lean toward a dual-boot setup, if only to avoid that headache. It's somewhat inconvenient, but if you're booting off of an SSD it generally doesn't take all that long to switch between the OSes these days.
-Albatross
Personally I'm all Linux. The worst part about using Linux is having to interact with Windows. Steam for the win!
My computer is a tower with a simple grab-latch to open the side. If I need to test-run a program on Windows I will plug in that hard drive, otherwise let that cable dangle. (Is that technically still a dual boot?)
I do agree with zapshee that an SSD is worth the upgrade, but you don't have to go premium. I bought one off amazon for $38 last year and it brought my aging tower back to life. Sadly since I didn't pay top dollar it likely is not guaranteed to last for more than a decade. They probably will have bigger/faster SSD's available by then, so I'd probably be thankful for the upgrade.
Virtualization is fun to play with, and my college ran virtual windows/mac machines for their classes. It was cool until you notice that these machines were worth $1,000 or $2,000 and they run about the same as my $200 tower (including price of ssd). If you want to get the most out of both OS's then a dual boot on separate hard drives is my best recommend.
To me, the one major benefit to Virtualization is the fast swap between OS's. Having two SSD's almost makes up for that, but if your workflow involves switching between them often, then not having to break concentration to reboot would be worth it. (Keskivertos' first post mentions other benefits)
My computer is a tower with a simple grab-latch to open the side. If I need to test-run a program on Windows I will plug in that hard drive, otherwise let that cable dangle. (Is that technically still a dual boot?)
I do agree with zapshee that an SSD is worth the upgrade, but you don't have to go premium. I bought one off amazon for $38 last year and it brought my aging tower back to life. Sadly since I didn't pay top dollar it likely is not guaranteed to last for more than a decade. They probably will have bigger/faster SSD's available by then, so I'd probably be thankful for the upgrade.
Virtualization is fun to play with, and my college ran virtual windows/mac machines for their classes. It was cool until you notice that these machines were worth $1,000 or $2,000 and they run about the same as my $200 tower (including price of ssd). If you want to get the most out of both OS's then a dual boot on separate hard drives is my best recommend.
To me, the one major benefit to Virtualization is the fast swap between OS's. Having two SSD's almost makes up for that, but if your workflow involves switching between them often, then not having to break concentration to reboot would be worth it. (Keskivertos' first post mentions other benefits)
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| Virtualization is fun to play with, and my college ran virtual windows/mac machines for their classes. It was cool until you notice that these machines were worth $1,000 or $2,000 and they run about the same as my $200 tower |
Whenever I run Linux on VM on my computer, its pretty smooth. You just have to allow to the VM to use some more of your cores.
Steam does support some gaming on Linux, where you can find some compatible games in the library, though nothing like the games you'd have access to on Windows.
Having personally ran Dual Boot and VM myself, I prefer VM. Its convenient because I'm mainly a Windows user, and the VM runs fast enough for me to do what I need to on Linux then close out of it - I usually save the state of the machine so I can pick up where I left off last time.
Dual boot is just too annoying sometimes, no access to the other OS without restarting. You do get some kind of access to files simply because you have the same storage with both operating systems, but its not the same as having both.
| Personally I'm all Linux. The worst part about using Linux is having to interact with Windows. |
The best part about Windows is not interacting with Linux!
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