Questions for graduates and current students (or everyone)
Pages: 12
Hi,
So, my college experience with comp sci, thus far, has been pretty useless. Really, all I can say for it is that it has forced me to learn how to code instead of relying off personal motivation. I've been taught absolutely nothing.
Now, I know being self-taught is common and that's fine and dandy. But I'm not cleaning toilets to waive most of my tuition to learn from myself and message boards. I want to be friggin' taught. The only thing I'll get from college is a piece of paper really, and since companies are moving away from even asking for a degree, I'm starting to think I should just drop out.
Anyways, that was just a little complaint I got carried away with. The question is this:
Does anyone have (had) a comp sci education from a university where they were actually taught from the professors (instead of just an authority figure who assigns homework) or is this self-taught method of curriculum just simply the way of comp sci?
So, my college experience with comp sci, thus far, has been pretty useless. Really, all I can say for it is that it has forced me to learn how to code instead of relying off personal motivation. I've been taught absolutely nothing.
Now, I know being self-taught is common and that's fine and dandy. But I'm not cleaning toilets to waive most of my tuition to learn from myself and message boards. I want to be friggin' taught. The only thing I'll get from college is a piece of paper really, and since companies are moving away from even asking for a degree, I'm starting to think I should just drop out.
Anyways, that was just a little complaint I got carried away with. The question is this:
Does anyone have (had) a comp sci education from a university where they were actually taught from the professors (instead of just an authority figure who assigns homework) or is this self-taught method of curriculum just simply the way of comp sci?
| since companies are moving away from even asking for a degree |
Professors can teach basic programming, but really the only way to get good at it is to practice it yourself, learning from mistakes. And googling things. Lots of things. As far as the broader area of "computer science", I can't say much cuz I don't have a CompSci degree. I think having an instructor for some specific parts, e.g. learning about operator systems, can be helpful.
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Does anyone have (had) a comp sci education from a university where they were actually taught from the professors (instead of just an authority figure who assigns homework) or is this self-taught method of curriculum just simply the way of comp sci?
I would say that my professors for the most part did teach as best as they could, but this was a long time ago at a smaller school. Small classes at smaller schools are often far better for your first degree: the giant schools are like puppy mills. If you have 500 people in your classes, you are in the wrong place, IMHO.
Most professors are doing research or papers or books. Books, if on a language, may mean the person is up to date, but R&D or papers are usually about algorithms or theories or things that do not require knowing the latest language tricks or much about coding at all. Or, to put it bluntly: professors are rarely professional coders. You can't learn how to be a professional coder from an abstract algorithm/theory guy who has not written actual project / production level code in 20+ years if at all. Change your expectations, and learn the things these guys DO know as best you can.
the point of school is really 3 things. If you get them, you got what you paid for.
1) the piece of paper. Regardless of trends at some few places to not require degrees anymore, many places still want it, or they want you to have 5 years experience instead, which you can't get because circular logic (can't get hired, lack 5 years and degree both at first). The piece of paper needs to have some value to you, I would say at least 75% of your tuition costs worth of value, which means you will net a job that pays that much over a year or two after getting the degree (eg your salary after should be enough / year to pay 2 years of tuition approximately in the worst case scenario). The other 25% are items 2 and 3, but your job still needs to pay for those benefits as well, so I probably am not saying that well.
2) learning how to learn. College is supposed to help you learn critical thinking skills, to provide not only code monkey skillset but the ability to craft your own data structure, design, or algorithm, or system. Coding is honestly the easiest thing a computer scientist does. Its the big picture that matters more, the architecture and interface and all.
3) Well rounded education. While your primary role will be computer science things, if you are nearly illiterate and cannot write a coherent email or proposal to management to fund a new tool or project or the like, that will hurt your career. If first/second year college level math befuddles you, it can be a show stopper for some tasks. The electives you take and the non field courses should all help your career as much as possible. Some of them will be forced upon you and have no value, but as best as you can choose and steer it, these things are a big deal. My engineering statistics class, for example, was a choice I could make and it has proven useful for decades.
I would say that my professors for the most part did teach as best as they could, but this was a long time ago at a smaller school. Small classes at smaller schools are often far better for your first degree: the giant schools are like puppy mills. If you have 500 people in your classes, you are in the wrong place, IMHO.
Most professors are doing research or papers or books. Books, if on a language, may mean the person is up to date, but R&D or papers are usually about algorithms or theories or things that do not require knowing the latest language tricks or much about coding at all. Or, to put it bluntly: professors are rarely professional coders. You can't learn how to be a professional coder from an abstract algorithm/theory guy who has not written actual project / production level code in 20+ years if at all. Change your expectations, and learn the things these guys DO know as best you can.
the point of school is really 3 things. If you get them, you got what you paid for.
1) the piece of paper. Regardless of trends at some few places to not require degrees anymore, many places still want it, or they want you to have 5 years experience instead, which you can't get because circular logic (can't get hired, lack 5 years and degree both at first). The piece of paper needs to have some value to you, I would say at least 75% of your tuition costs worth of value, which means you will net a job that pays that much over a year or two after getting the degree (eg your salary after should be enough / year to pay 2 years of tuition approximately in the worst case scenario). The other 25% are items 2 and 3, but your job still needs to pay for those benefits as well, so I probably am not saying that well.
2) learning how to learn. College is supposed to help you learn critical thinking skills, to provide not only code monkey skillset but the ability to craft your own data structure, design, or algorithm, or system. Coding is honestly the easiest thing a computer scientist does. Its the big picture that matters more, the architecture and interface and all.
3) Well rounded education. While your primary role will be computer science things, if you are nearly illiterate and cannot write a coherent email or proposal to management to fund a new tool or project or the like, that will hurt your career. If first/second year college level math befuddles you, it can be a show stopper for some tasks. The electives you take and the non field courses should all help your career as much as possible. Some of them will be forced upon you and have no value, but as best as you can choose and steer it, these things are a big deal. My engineering statistics class, for example, was a choice I could make and it has proven useful for decades.
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>> Ganado
https://www.flexjobs.com/blog/post/companies-dont-require-degree-hiring-flexible-jobs/
https://www.glassdoor.com/blog/no-degree-required/
I'm not saying it's everywhere right now, but it looks like a trend. And I still have a year left after this semester.
https://www.flexjobs.com/blog/post/companies-dont-require-degree-hiring-flexible-jobs/
https://www.glassdoor.com/blog/no-degree-required/
I'm not saying it's everywhere right now, but it looks like a trend. And I still have a year left after this semester.
>> helios
Compiling now.
Will edit.
I assume you aren't interested in the gen-eds, so here's the requirements for comp sci majors:
18 credit hours
Elementary stats and prob
calc (pre req trig, college alg)
programming concepts and problem solving (intro to c++)
part 2 (recursion, classes, inheritance)
discrete structures (discrete math)
part 2
data structs and algorithms (trees, lists, queues, deques, bst, vectors, etc)
software engineering (design patterns like factory method, decorator pattern, etc. AGILE. contracts)
computer organization and architecture
algorithm design and analysis
theory of computation
comparison of programming languages
Computer operating system (This class is responsible for the mutex and scheduling questions I've been asking)
Senior design
Linear Algebra (matrix algebra)
additional
3 of the following upper division
system admin, assembler and comp origin, mobile platform dev, numerical analysis, advanced COBOL, obj-ori design analysis, AI, distributive sys, database managment, web based client server programming, graphics, data mining, robotics, compiler interpreter, an internship.
Compiling now.
Will edit.
I assume you aren't interested in the gen-eds, so here's the requirements for comp sci majors:
18 credit hours
Elementary stats and prob
calc (pre req trig, college alg)
programming concepts and problem solving (intro to c++)
part 2 (recursion, classes, inheritance)
discrete structures (discrete math)
part 2
data structs and algorithms (trees, lists, queues, deques, bst, vectors, etc)
software engineering (design patterns like factory method, decorator pattern, etc. AGILE. contracts)
computer organization and architecture
algorithm design and analysis
theory of computation
comparison of programming languages
Computer operating system (This class is responsible for the mutex and scheduling questions I've been asking)
Senior design
Linear Algebra (matrix algebra)
additional
3 of the following upper division
system admin, assembler and comp origin, mobile platform dev, numerical analysis, advanced COBOL, obj-ori design analysis, AI, distributive sys, database managment, web based client server programming, graphics, data mining, robotics, compiler interpreter, an internship.
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>> jonnin
How long ago this was is your business, but I'm curious, did you have to take around 30 credits in gen-ed back then? Or was college focused more on the major being taken by the student?
This is simply another bitter student's complaining, but to me, it seems like a student would be more proficient at comp sci if he didn't have to divert time learning it and studying it every semester to memorize German vocabulary that he or she forgot after one semester or by learning trigonometry on things that engineers have said have absolutely no real world application.
Would you mind answering how important trig and calc is in your career as a computer scientist? (Assuming that's your career)
I can understand matrix algebra, stats, discrete math, but how often does Newton's method come up in the job world lol?
Side note: I realize there is a good possibility that I'm missing the bigger picture out of frustration and all this seemingly useless stuff is really beneficial. All I'm saying is, right now, I don't see it.
How long ago this was is your business, but I'm curious, did you have to take around 30 credits in gen-ed back then? Or was college focused more on the major being taken by the student?
This is simply another bitter student's complaining, but to me, it seems like a student would be more proficient at comp sci if he didn't have to divert time learning it and studying it every semester to memorize German vocabulary that he or she forgot after one semester or by learning trigonometry on things that engineers have said have absolutely no real world application.
Would you mind answering how important trig and calc is in your career as a computer scientist? (Assuming that's your career)
I can understand matrix algebra, stats, discrete math, but how often does Newton's method come up in the job world lol?
Side note: I realize there is a good possibility that I'm missing the bigger picture out of frustration and all this seemingly useless stuff is really beneficial. All I'm saying is, right now, I don't see it.
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I started coding and such in the late 80s.
I don't recall the credit hours and at one point I moved from quarters to semesters and it was a big mess, and I took extra to get a math minor.
math needed depends on what you are doing. but the techniques and concepts do come up --- once I used tangent to give slope of a line faster than handwritten code to do the same, for example. Newtons method may not come up (that was my first program really, on a HP calculator) but numerical methods do frequently in some jobs.
Tying math into a big picture is difficult esp if not taught that way.
I don't recall the credit hours and at one point I moved from quarters to semesters and it was a big mess, and I took extra to get a math minor.
math needed depends on what you are doing. but the techniques and concepts do come up --- once I used tangent to give slope of a line faster than handwritten code to do the same, for example. Newtons method may not come up (that was my first program really, on a HP calculator) but numerical methods do frequently in some jobs.
Tying math into a big picture is difficult esp if not taught that way.
If I wasn't so old, and didn't have such a low opinion of college, I would get a minor in an engineering field. I have all the math requirements met from what they make you take in comp sci.
Well, besides the engineering math courses.
Well, besides the engineering math courses.
College is a waste for what it really does. College is nice to get you introduced to concepts and ideas, but they take it too far, takes too long, and makes you do obsolete things half the time. What I can say is best about it is that it'll make you at least explore different concepts and such that you may have been too lazy to learn yourself otherwise.
If you wanna REALLY learn, best to do it yourself. Even if a professor really cares about teaching, they may be teaching you something outdated.. Such is the case in several of my classes that I've taken. Right now, I have a professor who's very fond of double pointers. Every assignment without fail has pointers to no end, mostly un-needed. He seems to be proud of himself with the more pointers he can incorporate.
If you wanna REALLY learn, best to do it yourself. Even if a professor really cares about teaching, they may be teaching you something outdated.. Such is the case in several of my classes that I've taken. Right now, I have a professor who's very fond of double pointers. Every assignment without fail has pointers to no end, mostly un-needed. He seems to be proud of himself with the more pointers he can incorporate.
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| since companies are moving away from even asking for a degree |
| I'm starting to think I should just drop out. |
Ask older people what the biggest regret is and one of the most common answers will be "I didn't stay in school."
I'm sorry that your teachers aren't very good. Maybe ask around or check the websites to see who the good profs are. Try to take classes from them. If that won't work, consider transferring to a school with better teachers.
My own college experience was excellent teachers, even in some very large classes (200+? it's hard to remember).
| My own college experience was excellent teachers, even in some very large classes (200+? it's hard to remember). |
My professor never even responds to my emails. My first CS professor wanted to hang me for "cheating", and my current CS professor thinks the only thing better than giving hard/tedious assignments is to not even go over how to go about coding any of them. Because you can just figure out how to code quick sort, even though there's about -1 reasons to.
Where'd you go to school ? :((
| After that time, she got a nice buy-out from her employer and was able to return to school full time. After getting her degree, her salary doubled almost immediately. |
| Ask older people what the biggest regret is and one of the most common answers will be "I didn't stay in school." |
I've committed to staying in school at this point. With only a year left, I'll not have all those toilet cleanings be in vain lol.
My buddy found a local sys admin job making 18 usd an hour and is thinking of quitting school now. He's a bit behind me.
I was making that roofing. That wouldn't be worth the effort I'm putting in.
My buddy found a local sys admin job making 18 usd an hour and is thinking of quitting school now. He's a bit behind me.
I was making that roofing. That wouldn't be worth the effort I'm putting in.
>> zapshe
My OS professor literally told me he couldn't help with the hw project because it was supposed to be independent learning. What's the point of him getting paid to teach if that's all it takes?
My OS professor literally told me he couldn't help with the hw project because it was supposed to be independent learning. What's the point of him getting paid to teach if that's all it takes?
| With only a year left, I'll not have all those toilet cleanings be in vain lol. |
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