one question about goto's

[G30GNwbp]

There is also a philosophical reason why goto exist.

One of the philosophies of C/C++ is that the "programmer knows what he/she is doing".

This language starts with the premise that you are not stupid.

[BHX]

@rtd2645
If that were true there would be no need for this site and programmers wouldn't ask questions for things they didn't know because they would already know what they are doing.

As for goto: This is a screenshot of the goto section of the recent The C++ Programming Language 4th Ed. (new reason to like having Kindle Cloud Reader on my laptop, saves me the time of typing it all up): http://prntscr.com/2nc2q7

[G30GNwbp]

C retains the basic philosophy that programmers know what they are
doing; it only requires that they state their intentions explicitly.

This quote is from:"The C programming Language, By Brian W. Kernighan and Dennis M. Ritchie" in the Introduction

[JLBorges]

Though the case against goto is stronger in languages like C (languages with no good support for RAII).

In such languages, explicit transfer of control of any kind (goto, break, continue, return etc.) have to be written with a lot of care, if any kind of resource management is involved.

Historically, most of the discussions 'goto considered harmful', 'goto considered harmful considered harmful' etc. have primarily centred around languages lacking the concept of RAII.

[Disch]

Is it me, or is it getting unnecessarily hostile here?

[cire]

BHX Specter wrote:

In fact, I've seen it said that C++ lets the programmer shoot themselves in the foot more easily, which to me would show that it isn't the same philosophy.

That should show you that it is the same philosophy. When dealing with things that let you shoot yourself, it is definitely in your best interest to know what you're doing.

BHX Specter wrote:

Also your PM made me laugh myself to tears.

He had enough respect for you and the forum to keep that private. It's a shame you couldn't maintain that level of respect.

[BHX]

@Disch
It's okay, I'd rather be comic relief than boring during a discussion. Though, I was pointing out the comical part of what he said, but yet taking the time to PM it to me. He could have done like JLBorges and expressed it in the thread. I wouldn't have cared because everyone is entitled to their opinion of me and I welcome the criticism. I actually love when cire is blunt with me, I find it refreshing than those who bite their tongues thinking it will lead to awkward moments.

[MikeyBoy]

He had enough respect for you and the forum to keep that private. It's a shame you couldn't maintain that level of respect.

Indeed. Publically posting the contents of a private email is very poor behaviour, no matter how comical, or disagreeable, one might find them.

[BHX]

Wait, who said I was respectful? Figure that would have been obviously a trait I don't have. I speak my mind. You either like it or you don't, I don't worry about it.

cire wrote:

That should show you that it is the same philosophy.

I'm thinking of it from a beginner coming in, they don't know what they are doing and as some beginner posts have shown, do shoot themselves in the foot regularly. So if that is the philosophy, then I can see why everyone says not to learn C++ as a first language. I don't agree with it, but I understand why people say it due to the complexity of the language and the learning curve.

[BHX]

I just wanted to say, that I admit I was wrong on the philosophy. I decided to take a minute to send praise to Bjarne Stroustrup for his latest The C++ Programming Language edition. TheThen politely asked:

Me wrote:

was wondering if C++ still holds true to one of C's philosophies the one of "basic philosophy that programmers know what they are doing; it only requires that they state their intentions explicitly.

I know he is a busy man, but I received a reply:

Bjarne Stroustrup wrote:

I think so, but it requires an explanation: These days people want to say what they couldn't in C, so some of the things they say *clearly* and *directly* are a bit harder to grasp for novices than plain C. My main example is qsort vs std::sort

[NPcomplete]

how did you contact Bjarne Stroustrup?

[LB]

The last sentence on his homepage tells you his email address.

[naraku9333]

BHX Specter wrote:

Wait, who said I was respectful? Figure that would have been obviously a trait I don't have.

That's not something to be proud of. Being respectful and speaking your mind are not mutually exclusive concepts, you can do both.

[MikeyBoy]

Being respectful and speaking your mind are not mutually exclusive concepts, you can do both.

Although people often try and use one as as a justification for not doing the other. A weak justification, admittedly, and one that most of us can see through, but it doesn't stop them trying...

[BHX]

naraku9333 wrote:

That's not something to be proud of.

To a normal person no, but I've never been normal. Good or bad, I'm proud.

naraku9333 wrote:

Being respectful and speaking your mind are not mutually exclusive concepts, you can do both.

No one had a problem when DTSCode (before he left) and me showed the PMs of Alex888 sent to us and never called us disrespectful (admin has since banned the member and removed all posts). I just love hypocrites, apparently it is fine to post them when someone is trolling and rude, but I post one that I find funny for its irony and I'm jumped on for it. *shrugs* People will never make sense to me.

I'm fine if everyone here hates me. Just be open about not liking me, don't waste your time PMing it to me. As rtd2645 just found out from this thread, he isn't the only one that doesn't respect my opinion or hates me. None of which is going make me stop programming or helping others or conversing in Lounge.

[naraku9333]

BHX Specter wrote:

No one had a problem when DTSCode (before he left) and me showed the PMs of Alex888 sent to us and never called us disrespectful (admin has since banned the member and removed all posts). I just love hypocrites, apparently it is fine to post them when someone is trolling and rude, but I post one that I find funny for its irony and I'm jumped on for it. *shrugs* People will never make sense to me.

I did see that thread before any PMs were posted but it didn't interest me, I doubt it was appropriate to post PMs in that case, but I don't know the whole story. I rarely go into the jobs forum anyway.

I'm fine if everyone here hates me. Just be open about not liking me, don't waste your time PMing it to me. As rtd2645 just found out from this thread, he isn't the only one that doesn't respect my opinion or hates me. None of which is going make me stop programming or helping others or conversing in Lounge.

I don't hate you, I don't particularly like you, but I don't hate you.

You can take my comment as an attack if you like, though it wasn't meant to be.

[BHX]

naraku9333 wrote:

I did see that thread before any PMs were posted but it didn't interest me, I doubt it was appropriate to post PMs in that case, but I don't know the whole story.

The jest of it, he didn't like that I was being honest and PMed calling me a noob, cussing me out, told me to stay out of his topics until I grew up, got skills, and knew what I was talking about. So I posted the whole PM to show that he was just trolling.

Out of that thread, the only thing that shocked me was when DTSCode said I was a respected member of the forum. I knew it wasn't true, but the sentiment was nice.

naraku9333 wrote:

I don't hate you, I don't particularly like you, but I don't hate you.

That is perfectly fine.

naraku9333 wrote:

You can take my comment as an attack if you like, though it wasn't meant to be.

I didn't take it as an attack. I just took it as a point of view.

[j3Rz8vqX]

The community here is pretty good. However, we should reduce the number of quoting and analysis; unless it's truly necessary or in favor of the OP.

We've got a bunch of capable, intelligent, and sophisticated individuals on this forum.

Here's something to delude the toxic.
http://www.wikihow.com/Deal-With-Impossible-People

I thought the art was pretty funny; reminds me of myself - both perspective.
I've always tried to remain in a neutral spectrum, but I'm certain that isn't possible.

If the meltdown of a nuclear factory is to ever becomes present on this site, hopefully everyone is capable of identifying, resolving, or avoiding the situation.

[BHX]

They have tons of "How to deal with impossible people" techniques and honestly, none work. The only true way to deal with impossible people is to fully ignore them. Problem is it is in our nature to have conflict so you can only ignore them for so long before commenting and starting a argument you had no plan to start.

Yes I realize I'm an impossible person and can say, that none of those techniques have ever worked on me.