Best way to master linux

[csstudent123]

Do i do CS degree or IT degree to master linux/unix ?

[megatron 0]

Why not just practice using it? Usually degree's don't make a difference, if they use windows they use windows, if they use linux, they use linux.

To master something it takes a great deal of time and care, and no course will make you a "master".

Masters teach, not get taught.

Read a lot of material about linux, read up on version history, especially source code.

[drew887]

If you want to "master" Linux the best thing to do is to read up like Megatron said. And after a lot of studying take a Linux certification test like https://www.lpi.org/linux-certifications

[tcs]

Maurice Bach, "The Design of the UNIX Operating System", Prentice Hall, 1986

It does help you understand all basic concepts of every UNIX operating system, like process hierarchy, resource sharing between child and parent process, file handling, etc.

[csstudent123]

I am not debating about academic learning VS self learning, but just wanted to know which course CS/IT would give more exposure and hands on learning to the Unix/Linux system :)

[drew887]

While I can't speak for every school, I know that at my college both provide you with a good *nix course, but the IT course goes much more indepth than the CS does.

[csstudent123]

thanks , thats nice to hear, IT going indepth in OS

[imageek]

I wanted to add my 2 cents here. First post and all.

The best way to learn linux is to jump in deep. Reading books is useful, but at the tender age of 30 I value my time. I say this because I find reading books introduce you to certain topics and concepts, but by the end of the book you've forgotten it.

I started using *nix properly at 25. I installed FreeBSD, didn't install a window manager, just used the terminal (this is where I fell in love with vim, screen and tmux). I had to learn so much stuff just to get a functional operating system. But the stuff I learnt stuck forever. I use *nix on a daily basis (either OSX or Debian), and you learn new things every day.

Later in life I found out about Gentoo. And I have that installed on my Thinkpad. I've yet to tackle Linux from Scratch. Don't have the time anymore.

The best way to learn is just jump in and learn along the way. It's more valuable. Keep a book, or Google, handy and you'll be fine.

I've got a CS (software engineering) degree, and there's nothing I learnt there that I couldn't have learnt from a book IRC or the Internet.

[csstudent123]

R u saying degree learning same as learning from internet? I do not agree to this. First of all degrees are designed by professionals who know the leading trends in the field, they also design methodology based on psychology as how best students will grasp and master concepts, also they teach you analytical and logical thinking, also what you can learn by degree you will take greater time to learn by internet just searching...So there is no substitute for degree, Degree is a monolithic existence of a field of knowledge with various interconnecting paths..its a proof of your intellectual ability

[mutexe]

So there is no substitute for degree

No offence but I do not agree with this.

There is no substitute for experience.

The best developers I know either don't have degrees or have 3rd class/basic pass degrees.

Some subjects I thing degrees are very important. But not software engineering.

[mjgeis]

The best developers I know either don't have degrees or have 3rd class/basic pass degrees.

What a cop-out. That is correlation, NOT causation. And the tech world is no longer as forgiving as it was when "those guys you know" DIDN'T get their degrees. There is currently a pretty large bubble getting ready to pop in the tech industry and those without degrees will have it much harder once companies figure out they can pay one guy (likely with both a degree and good experience) 120K to do what 6 guys used to do for 60K each. The thing is, when you have a degree, an employer can count on you to actually understand the fundamentals of the work you are doing. It shows that you spent a short amount of time mastering a large number of concepts on a level that leading experts in the field feel is sufficient, and I would say that such an achievement indicates not only the level of that individual's skill, but their ability to learn as well.

Now that we have dealt with mutexe's misguided statements, my two cents:

At my university we don't have an IT degree, but we do have CS. Throughout the degree, students program in a Linux environment, but sophisticated OS topics don't get covered until the upper-level OS course. I would strongly recommend to anyone that they pursue a CS degree instead of an IT degree. In my opinion, an IT degree can be replaced with a CS degree and strong troubleshooting skills and knowledge of operating systems. The CS degree should prove far more flexible in the long run.

[mutexe]

To answer this:

Do i do CS degree or IT degree to master linux/unix ?

I would say: a CS degree is a good path to start on the road to mastering linux/unix.

[Dj1bRXSz]

Well this is my first post and probably my last based on the hopelessly niave posts by the OP and mjgeis. You really are both pro-establishment hey! To suggest that you cannot learn as much under your own steam vs main stream education is nonsense. The most arrogant people i have ever met were university trained losers with the classic ego to match. If you want to have a piece of paper to tell you that you have successfully been indoctrinated in a particular subject for your ego to masterbate over then fair enough but don't you dare suggest that self taught people are by default inferior to others with degrees. All forms of indoctrination/education are largely biased towards the dogmatic opinions of the teacher and the establishment which significantly affects the information being taught.

"its a proof of your intellectual ability"

Mmmm ok so it is not proof of your brains capacity to store information i.e. memory then? Memory is very different from intelligence! Almost anyone can retain information and regurgitate when required for an exam.

Indoctrination, regurgitation, qualification!

[Albatross]

Should there be some rule about there being a minimum post count to be able to post in the lounge?

Oooh, my bad. I though this was in the lounge, not /unices. It seemed like a lounge discussion to me.

-Albatross

[mjgeis]

You used the word indoctrination three times in the same paragraph. You learn in college that (while not directly related to software development expertise) diverse word choice allows you to effectively communicate.

In addition, your assessment of a software engineering program is extremely distorted. The nature of computer science fundamentals are such that a teacher cannot do very much to change the information being taught; the math always works the same, the only thing that changes are the real world examples given by professors to link concepts to real application. A key benefit of having a formalized education is receiving valuable feedback every step of the way from an expert in the field. Sure, you might be able to crowd-source similar feedback on the internet, but I think we're kidding ourselves if we are making the claim that internet feedback is the superior option. At the very best, they could be equal.

Mmmm ok so it is not proof of your brains capacity to store information i.e. memory then? Memory is very different from intelligence! Almost anyone can retain information and regurgitate when required for an exam.

I can barely parse this into meaningful English. You cannot succeed on a University of Michigan computer science exam based on memory alone. Every exam I have taken in a CS course allows students to bring an 8.5x11 sheet of paper (double-sided for cumulative final exams) with as many notes as they can fit on it. Do you know why? Because it does not matter what you write down. The exams are extremely, extremely difficult, and the only thing worth a damn inside that exam room is true comprehension of the material.

While I don't think that there should be a "minimum post count" to earn the almighty privilege of posting in this sacred lounge, I do think that for accountability purposes, deleted accounts should behave the way they do on reddit, in which all posts from that user are deleted along with the ID attached to them. That way, you can prevent cowards from saying really ignorant things and then running away from the problem.

I understand that a lot of programmers might be worried about their futures since they didn't go to college and the tech-talent bubble is about to burst, but that is no reason to lash out at those of us who took the time and spent the money on earning that qualification.

EDIT: This got really annoying and all I really came here to say is that the way my CS degree covers Linux is pretty passive until you take the OS course. I did not expect to find such backlash to the very idea of getting a degree in the first place, but I will absolutely continue to defend it because I see it as the more sustainable choice in the long run.

[Albatross]

Oh boy, mjgeis. You aren't making a good first impression.

What a cop-out. That is correlation, NOT causation.

But it does show that a degree isn't necessary to be a good developer. Happy strawman.

There is currently a pretty large bubble getting ready to pop in the tech industry and those without degrees will have it much harder once companies figure out they can pay one guy (likely with both a degree and good experience) 120K to do what 6 guys used to do for 60K each.

And when that happens, they're going to start looking for masters degrees. Bachelor's degrees alone won't be sufficient to prove that the student is actually good enough, and many places already look for those (including Valve, and I've yakked up and down the IRC about their persistent memory leaks in the Source engine and their undisciplined use of UDP for text chat).

The thing is, when you have a degree, an employer can count on you to actually understand the fundamentals of the work you are doing.

Then Microsoft wouldn't be doing the Fizz-Buzz test.

You learn in college that diverse word choice allows you to effectively communicate.

This was a pointless statement.

The nature of computer science fundamentals are such that a teacher cannot do very much to change the information being taught; the math always works the same, the only thing that changes are the real world examples given by professors to link concepts to real application.

The professor (EDIT: or more likely, the department) also has plenty of opportunities to decide which information to teach, though, and that can have a massive impact on its own. There's a big difference between teaching Java and C as a first language, and how the students will think moving forward.

A key benefit of having a formalized education is receiving valuable feedback every step of the way from an expert in the field.

This is very true! Assuming the professor is good and the class size is decent. Otherwise you'll either not get good feedback or you'll get feedback from a TA who may not even be pursuing a computer science degree (as happened in my case).

I did not expect to find such backlash to the very idea of getting a degree in the first place, but I will absolutely continue to defend it because I see it as the more sustainable choice in the long run.

This may have been the case twenty years ago. However, tuition rates have increased to immoral levels and students cannot bankrupt on student loans, whose interest rates are often very high. Getting bachelor's... hell, for some, getting an associate's degree is not an option simply because they know they would suffer under the unpaid loans.

deleted accounts should behave the way they do on reddit, in which all posts from that user are deleted along with the ID attached to them

This is a bad idea. We like being able to keep track of conversations. Deleting posts outright, even if they're inflammatory, makes it significantly harder to follow the conversation. You can argue that deleting the nickname and replacing it with the database ID makes it hard to follow as well, and you'd be right, but after some intuitive hops, skips, and jumps the database IDs can be matched to the old usernames. Outright deleting the posts makes it worse.

-Albatross

[mjgeis]

First off, I have to apologize for derailing this completely which is not at all what I set out to do. Some mild adhd makes it really difficult to resist (sometimes aggressively) speaking my mind.

And when that happens, they're going to start looking for masters degrees.

I agree completely, and good luck getting one of those without a Bachelor's.

their undisciplined use of UDP for text chat

This sounds sketchy as hell and I would love to hear more about it. I just worked with UDP to build an application for a course, but there was literally nothing mischievous to do to it if someone had any ideas.

Deleting posts outright, even if they're inflammatory, makes it significantly harder to follow the conversation.

I agree with this statement. And yet, this website is not a place for trolls. Someone was just able to enter a then-reasonable discussion and leave an anonymous diatribe that looks like it was pulled from the pamphlet at an Illuminati gathering. That, to me, is not the way that a serious reference site like cplusplus.com should operate. But I guess I am new here (EDIT: to the community, at least. This website got me through my "weeder" courses).

This may have been the case twenty years ago.

This is a really complex situation that both of us are over-simplifying. It is true that the cost of degrees has risen to an abysmal level, but the amount of tech talent in the workforce has also skyrocketed, and I grow increasingly concerned that the supply is beginning to outpace the demand.

Another thing to consider here is that universities are full of recruiting opportunities. Twice a year my school has an engineering career fair which I and countless others find invaluable in our efforts to find jobs. I'm obviously not saying it is impossible to land a job without a career fair, but a career fair will inevitably open doors you didn't know existed.

You aren't making a good first impression.

I regret this. You engaged me rationally and clearly demonstrated that you actually read and comprehended my posts. It's not impossible to get me to change my mind, and you have definitely given me new points of view to consider. I wish that my first post (which I didn't really think was inflammatory besides my use of the word "misguided", but I will let others judge that) on this website had not been immediately attacked by a troll -- talk about a bad first impression. It is not difficult to engage civilly with someone like you, and I wish that you had been the first to respond to me instead of [REDACTED]. For reference:

If you want to have a piece of paper to tell you that you have successfully been indoctrinated in a particular subject for your ego to masterbate over then fair enough but don't you dare suggest that self taught people are by default inferior to others with degrees.

Does that really belong on this website?

[mutexe]

I regret this.

Glad to hear.