Advice for a College Kid

[Gaminic]

Honestly, the only reason to bother with college is one of two reasons 1) to feel accomplished in having a degree 2) because you are applying to a company that covets the degree.

I disagree. A higher education is good for several things:
a) Learning to learn. Even if you suck at studying, getting your degree still shows that you can absorb and process large amounts of information. Even if you never use the information itself, you're ability to learn will be greater than the average person.
b) Building a network. It's often said "it's not what you know, it's who you know". Some people say "I want to get there by myself!" but that's nonsense. Having a diverse network doesn't guarantee success; it increases your opportunities. It's still your job to utilize those and be the best you can.
c) Proof to that outside world that you've invested time (and money) in your future. It's very hard to distinguish yourself from other candidates for the same position. Your degree puts you at an advantage. It's not a free ticket to a well-paying job, but it improves your chances.

Of course, depending on the country you live in, the price-tag can be substantial.

[BHX]

a) Can learn that without college as you can be self taught.
b) I did college where they claimed we would have a large network and I ended up only having professors from the college in my network who had no experience in the industry outside of hobbyist.
c) Proof means nothing as I know several who are in the same debt I am and have worked on numerous indie teams, but can't get the time of day in an actual company.

[naraku9333]

@BHXSpecter
While it is possible to learn all the skills without college, it would be extremely difficult to find work in the industry without a degree. Your clouded by your specific experience, not to say it's uncommon, it took my mother around 2 years to find a job after law school. You also have to remember that there aren't an abundance of [insert field] jobs everywhere and you may need to move out of state for a job, which is what my mother had to do.

Edit:
I do agree the debt of education in the U.S. is ridiculus but even with the debt the added income a degree can bring (not to mention the sense of personal accomplishment) is IMO well worth it.

[BHX]

naraku9333 wrote:

Your clouded by your specific experience, not to say it's uncommon, it took my mother around 2 years to find a job after law school.

No I'm not, I've actually been told by artists, designers, and even recruiters that college degrees in game industry are mostly fluff and only a hand full of students ever have what it takes to get in the door. It is better to learn yourself without the degree as they are interested in only that you are able to finish a program and have the abilities to make the game than they care if you have a degree. My network was a piece of crap out of college, it only improved when I started talking to game industry guys that made games I loved playing (now my network includes most of the Mortal Kombat team, sadly the one guy I want to talk to most is the one that replies the least).

Most of the programmers I know didn't bother getting a degree until after they already had a job in the programming industry (web dev, software (application) dev, etc.). They only went for it to say they had done it, but still work in the same jobs they had before they did the degree.

[EDIT]
The only thing that happened to me was that I've not been able to find my focus to actually program anything since I finished my degree and been told the degree was the equivalent of toilet paper. I feel like I've forgotten a lot of my math and programming knowledge and can't think straight to think of projects to do anymore. I know a lot about programming, but that means little when you lose your focus to use it.

[naraku9333]

No I'm not, I've actually been told by artists, designers, and even recruiters that college degrees in game industry are mostly fluff and only a hand full of students ever have what it takes to get in the door.

If you mean degrees in game programming are fluff, I can't say I'v heard anything good about them. I was referring to degrees from "traditional" universities.

I feel like I've forgotten a lot of my math and programming knowledge and can't think straight to think of projects to do anymore. I know a lot about programming, but that means little when you lose your focus to use it.

Only way to keep your skills up is to use it, just start a project, doesn't even matter what just something to play with and hone your skills. I recently started a 2D side scroller using SFML, I don't have a story, name, original art or experience making a game (I don't even play video games). I'm going into this knowing full well the game will likely fail, but I don't care, it's an opportunity to learn and experiment. I also suggest posting your code online and asking (here or other forums) for code review to help identify any areas you can improve.

[BHX]

naraku9333 wrote:

If you mean degrees in game programming are fluff, I can't say I'v heard anything good about them. I was referring to degrees from "traditional" universities.

No I mean a BS in CS in the game industry is fluff. Most of the programmers in the game industry have a high school diploma and that is it.

Thanks for the advice on keeping my skills up. I'd rather post here than anywhere else because I've done Pong clone before, but I have issues with collision detection and one guy told me a way to fix it, but upon attempting it in a new pong clone it botched the collision detection so I have to fix it and understand his code.

[naraku9333]

Most of the programmers in the game industry have a high school diploma and that is it.

I can't claim to know anything about the game industry, but I have serious doubts to the validity of this statement. I'm sure there are cases where people get in with out a degree, but to say most of them, just seems unlikely.

You've previously mentioned making pong clones with a few different API's, that seems quite redundant and IMO probably isn't going to add much new knowledge after the first or second. Doing the same thing over and over isn't going to keep you interested, try something new. I strugle with collision detection response as well, but I think I'm getting somewhere, there is a ton of info out there to help.

[BHX]

Well, only a few of the MK team have a college degree and Jason Rubin told me that when he worked with Naughty Dog almost none of them had a college degree. I've also seen interviews with Criterion Games and other companies where they have admitted that most of their studio had very few college graduates. I don't know the percentage, but I'm thinking it is pretty accurate as most studios didn't even require college degrees until recently. I remember a few companies I looked at didn't have any college degrees as a requirement for jobs. I think have of Criterion games leads started out in lower jobs (think it was the graphic lead that actually started out in the mail room and worked his way up without a degree).

Problem with the collision response is that future games will have the same problem so I'm trying to understand what I'm doing wrong so I won't have to fight it in future games. I wanted to play with a Breakout clone, but the collision would appear in that too (just a glitch where the ball hits the bottom or top of the player paddle and it vibrates the length of the paddle then ricochets either back towards the other player or scores on yourself).

[htown]

I am currently a senior at my college, I decided to get both BS Computer Science/Math and Computer Information Systems as my degrees. The first one is math-oriented and the second is business-oriented. So that when I graduate i have a lot more options available. I agree, tutoring is one of the best ways to not only help you understand and explain things better but to help out someone else as well.

I am just not sure if I want to pursue a Masters degree. I feel pretty burnt out on college right now. I know that some companies will pay for you to get your Master's degree while working for their company. If this does happen to me, I would gladly continue my education.

[naraku9333]

@BHXSpecter
Why not start a thread and post the code, I'll take a look and there are far more experienced people that may be able to help. Sometimes a second set of eyes is all it takes.