GaDEADfi
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Colonel Muammar Gadaffi is dead.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2011/10/20/gaddafi-dead-colonel-gaddafi-captured-but-dead-of-injuries-libya-transitional-council-official-claims-115875-23502371/
I'm pretty pleased with this, though I'm somewhat dubious as to the cause of his death (the NTC says it was caused by unspecified "injuries" which I think means he was killed by rebels (not that I'm complaining)).
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2011/10/20/gaddafi-dead-colonel-gaddafi-captured-but-dead-of-injuries-libya-transitional-council-official-claims-115875-23502371/
I'm pretty pleased with this, though I'm somewhat dubious as to the cause of his death (the NTC says it was caused by unspecified "injuries" which I think means he was killed by rebels (not that I'm complaining)).
...and that's ANOTHER U.S. target who died before he could get a trial. Geez.
-Albatross
-Albatross
closed account (1yR4jE8b)
I agree Albatross.
I think being pleased that another human being's life has been taking is, frankly, a little crass. I'm not happy that he's dead, *however* I'm not going to lose any sleep over it either.
I don't think any person deserves to die in cold blood, not even so-called evil people. He should have stood trial and then been locked away in solitary confinement for the rest of his life. That, in my opinion, is a punishment far worse then death.
I think being pleased that another human being's life has been taking is, frankly, a little crass. I'm not happy that he's dead, *however* I'm not going to lose any sleep over it either.
I don't think any person deserves to die in cold blood, not even so-called evil people. He should have stood trial and then been locked away in solitary confinement for the rest of his life. That, in my opinion, is a punishment far worse then death.
closed account (LzqpfSEw)
"I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy."
Just remember, no matter how evil, he is someone's father/son/husband.
Just remember, no matter how evil, he is someone's father/son/husband.
closed account (1yR4jE8b)
I'd also like to add, that while I'm not *pleased* that he is dead. I am pleased that his reign of terror has come to an end.
I'm not speaking about Gadaffi specifically here, because I don't really know about him... but....
Franky, the world is better off without some people. I often think humanity is too kind towards people it shouldn't be (and too cruel to people it shouldn't be). If there were more swift-kick-in-the-balls type punishments instead of "oh he just needs rehabilitation" babying crap, people might be more hesitant to be living scum.
Maybe I'm misinterpretting what you're saying here.
Are you saying that death is too harsh a punishment, but something even worse isn't too harsh?
| darkestfright wrote: |
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| I think being pleased that another human being's life has been taking is, frankly, a little crass. |
Franky, the world is better off without some people. I often think humanity is too kind towards people it shouldn't be (and too cruel to people it shouldn't be). If there were more swift-kick-in-the-balls type punishments instead of "oh he just needs rehabilitation" babying crap, people might be more hesitant to be living scum.
| I don't think any person deserves to die in cold blood, not even so-called evil people. He should have stood trial and then been locked away in solitary confinement for the rest of his life. That, in my opinion, is a punishment far worse then death. |
Maybe I'm misinterpretting what you're saying here.
Are you saying that death is too harsh a punishment, but something even worse isn't too harsh?
Quit being such a downer. If you don't like the thread, then don't read it.
Now buzz off =P
Now buzz off =P
If you don't like my comment, then don't reply.
Now go back to talking about the implications, relevance, and desirability of death. =P
Now go back to talking about the implications, relevance, and desirability of death. =P
| darkestfright wrote: |
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| I think being pleased that another human being's life has been taking is, frankly, a little crass. |
Easy for you to say, as a third party who only learns about happenings like these remotely. I believe anyone who had to live under his reign has any and every right to be happy over his death. I'm sure you would be very excited as well if you were in the position of a rebel.
@Albatross:
And what about the thousands of people who died under his reign? Where were their trials? You get what you give. Payback's a bitch.
| Catfish wrote: |
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| If you don't like my comment, then don't reply. |
Run along kiddo. The grown-ups are talking. Go watch your Pokemans or something.
| ModShop wrote: |
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| And what about the thousands of people who died under his reign? Where were their trials? You get what you give. |
Again I'm not really trying to defend Gadaffi here, but the point of a trial isn't to be "fair" to the guilty party, it's to make sure we know who the actual guilty party is.
Strictly for argument's sake... if, in the unlikely event that Gadaffi had nothing to do with said deaths, would you still feel he deserved to die without a trial?
A contrived example, sure, but without a trial how can you really know?
closed account (1yR4jE8b)
| Franky, the world is better off without some people. |
Maybe, but who are we to judge who has the right to live and not?
| I often think humanity is too kind towards people it shouldn't be (and too cruel to people it shouldn't be). |
Such is the nature of all things, not just humanity.
| If there were more swift-kick-in-the-balls type punishments instead of "oh he just needs rehabilitation" babying crap, people might be more hesitant to be living scum. |
I don't see how being thrown into jail to rot for the rest of your life is "babying". Being locked away forever with only your guilt as company is way more fitting a punishment then just snuffing their life out like an animal.
| Are you saying that death is too harsh a punishment, but something even worse isn't too harsh? |
I wouldn't even consider death a punishment at all. Capital punishment is the easy way out and serves only to satisfy the people giving it, it does nothing for the person receiving it because there is no coming back. He deserved more.
| Easy for you to say, as a third party who only learns about happenings like these remotely. I believe anyone who had to live under his reign has any and every right to be happy over his death. I'm sure you would be very excited as well if you were in the position of a rebel. |
And if he was captured alive and put into prison for the rest of his life, with no chance of ever getting out *ever*, how would the outcome be any different?
| And what about the thousands of people who died under his reign? Where were their trials? You get what you give. |
Those people were murdered. There is no denying it. That doesn't mean that he should be murdered in the same fashion. Let's think about it this way: Where in the world is capital punishment embraced in the justice system? Where isn't it? Where would you rather live?
| Maybe, but who are we to judge who has the right to live and not? |
You're making a double standard for death. If we don't have the right to decide whether he should die, then how can we have the right to decide whether he should spend his life rotting in a cell? (which, according to you, is even worse than death)
The masses have the right to make decisions for the masses. It's our world, and if you mess it up bad enough to piss us off to such an extreme degree, then IMO we have the right to do something about it. Whether it be prison/death/whatever. As long as it solves the problem for the betterment of society.
| I don't see how being thrown into jail to rot for the rest of your life is "babying". |
3 squares a day, recreation (in some sense), protection from the elements, etc. Not exactly fine living, granted, but when you're talking about the kind of people we are -- what difference does it make if we throw them in a box never again to be free or if we just kill them outright? The only difference it makes in my eyes is how much time/effort/money we waste on keeping them alive and in check. Not to mention the unneeded risk their very existance puts others (correctional officers, other inmates) in.
| I wouldn't even consider death a punishment at all |
Sure you would. Death is a very negative thing for someone. If it wasn't, you wouldn't care that Gadaffi killed other people.
| Capital punishment is the easy way out and serves only to satisfy the people giving it, it does nothing for the person receiving it because there is no coming back. He deserved more. |
So you're more about torture and suffering than solving the problem at hand. That's kind of sadistic, don't you think? ;P
The way I see it... the end result of imprisoning someone for life is that they are removed from society permanently, so we don't have to deal with their crap any more. That's the only logical reason to do it.
If the end result is that they die in prison, what does it matter how much time they get to live and spend in prison beforehand?
Is it to teach them a lesson? Who cares whether or not they learn any lesson. At the end of the sentence they're dead. They could have become completely enlightened and it wouldn't matter.
| Where in the world is capital punishment embraced in the justice system? Where isn't it? Where would you rather live? |
It's practiced on and off again in different parts of the USA.
Personally I'm all for it.
closed account (1vRz3TCk)
| "A surging, seething, murmuring crowd of beings that are human only in name, for to the eye and ear they seem naught but savage creatures, animated by vile passions and by the lust of vengeance and of hate." |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
| "Vengeance is not the point; change is. But the trouble is that in most people's minds the thought of victory and the thought of punishing the enemy coincide." |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It's hard not to get too involved in the ethics of this as the argument could go on forever, but my view on it is that if anyone takes pleasure in the death/mistreatment of another person, regardless of who that person is, it only speaks volumes about the person in question, not the victim.
Mistreating another person can't possibly take back their crimes, and if that person is killed it can only hurt the mind of the person who killed them. You can't just think of murder in terms of the person who was murdered, it will always have a serious affect on the mind of the person who committed the murder.
I think that's something that's missing from moral philosophy in the West, an immoral act isn't a one way street, it hurts both parties and there is always a knock on effect. Before you do something which you know is cruel or hurtful, think of how that act will affect yourself.
Mistreating another person can't possibly take back their crimes, and if that person is killed it can only hurt the mind of the person who killed them. You can't just think of murder in terms of the person who was murdered, it will always have a serious affect on the mind of the person who committed the murder.
I think that's something that's missing from moral philosophy in the West, an immoral act isn't a one way street, it hurts both parties and there is always a knock on effect. Before you do something which you know is cruel or hurtful, think of how that act will affect yourself.
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closed account (1yR4jE8b)
Quirky, you took the words right out of my mouth...I had a reply about 3 times longer written up, but then you said it in 3 short paragraphs.
Bravo
Bravo
I find it completely ok that Gadaffi (and some of his sons) is killed by those ppl he tried to kill. That's a true act of self-defence.
closed account (1vRz3TCk)
| That's a true act of self-defence. |
If he died from injuries sustained while being captured, that is one thing. However, if he died from injuries sustained after being captured, then it is likely murder.
He should have gone on trial for whatever crimes he committed and, if found guilty, been punished according to the laws of the land or international law.
EDIT:
For the record; I am neither sad nor happy that he is dead.
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| but my view on it is that if anyone takes pleasure in the death/mistreatment of another person, regardless of who that person is, it only speaks volumes about the person in question, not the victim. |
This statement is too broad to be fair/realistic. But I suppose it depends on your definition of "pleasure". I would consider relief to be a form of pleasure, and I can imagine several realistic scenarios where the death of someone would bring another person relief. I don't think that speaks negatively about that person in the least.
| and if that person is killed it can only hurt the mind of the person who killed them. You can't just think of murder in terms of the person who was murdered, it will always have a serious affect on the mind of the person who committed the murder. |
I also think you're speaking too broadly here. For most people you're right, but most people aren't involved in/exposed to the kind of behaviors we're talking about here.
It's nice to think that everyone in the world is basically good deep down in their heart and that their conscience would make them feel bad for hurting other people, but in reality that isn't always the case.
Some people enjoy it. Some people even get off on it. Some people simply don't care. And some people are so far detached from reality that they don't even realize what they're doing.
Besides I hate this "the murderer is a victim too" crap. The murderer is not the victim. The victim is the victim. This is the kind of babying BS I was talking about earlier.
| I think that's something that's missing from moral philosophy in the West, an immoral act isn't a one way street, it hurts both parties and there is always a knock on effect. Before you do something which you know is cruel or hurtful, think of how that act will affect yourself. |
This is more idealism. It isn't realistic.
Yes the above is true for most people. But then again most people aren't capable of these kinds of crimes. The people that are capable are the ones that the above doesn't really apply to.
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