Electronic circuit design
How many of you are interested in electronics - designing and building circuits, or even only occasionally thinking about how electronic things are made - without actually building anything?
We are planning to start a social networking site for people interested in electronics and I wonder what is a percentage of programmers (especially C/C++ programmers) that are interested in these topics.
I'm also interested whether you prefer dealing with mostly digital circuits (e.g. programming microcontrollers) or analogue (e.g. building HiFi tube amplifiers)?
If you are personally not interested, but you had to deal with electronics in some university course, then we'd like to know.
If you are not interested at all with these kinds of things, please also answer - you can just post a single No.
We are planning to start a social networking site for people interested in electronics and I wonder what is a percentage of programmers (especially C/C++ programmers) that are interested in these topics.
I'm also interested whether you prefer dealing with mostly digital circuits (e.g. programming microcontrollers) or analogue (e.g. building HiFi tube amplifiers)?
If you are personally not interested, but you had to deal with electronics in some university course, then we'd like to know.
If you are not interested at all with these kinds of things, please also answer - you can just post a single No.
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I am interested in the theory, but I'm no good at building stuff or even just designing a circuit (I could design how the circuit should behave, but since I'm no good with electronics I'd leave out practical considerations).
I've always been interested in electronics to some degree, but it's like there's some fundamental logic to electricity that I've never been able to wrap my head around.
I think I prefer dealing with digital circuits, since I can apply the logic I'm already used to more effectively than with analog circuits. I can deal a lot better with "there's a 1 on this wire" than with "there's sin(t) V on this wire".
I think I prefer dealing with digital circuits, since I can apply the logic I'm already used to more effectively than with analog circuits. I can deal a lot better with "there's a 1 on this wire" than with "there's sin(t) V on this wire".
closed account (3hM2Nwbp)
I used to specialize in automotive electronics (onboard controllers and the outputs that they control) back when my ASE master tech certifications were still current. At one point, I tried programming my own engine controller module, but failed miserably.
Back in college, I took 3 semesters of automotive electronics courses.
* Lately though, I've just been involved with major component r&r jobs (Engines, transaxles, etc), but I do want to give my custom ECU another shot.
** A future project that I've always wanted to do is to build my own windmill to see how much power it will actually generate...that's just as much an electronics job as it is a welding job!
Back in college, I took 3 semesters of automotive electronics courses.
* Lately though, I've just been involved with major component r&r jobs (Engines, transaxles, etc), but I do want to give my custom ECU another shot.
** A future project that I've always wanted to do is to build my own windmill to see how much power it will actually generate...that's just as much an electronics job as it is a welding job!
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I used to do electronics at school and I enjoyed the 10% or so that actually had anything to do with circuit logic and designing circuits. I didn't like the 20% or so that involved building a circuit, and I hated the other 70% of the course, which involved building a chassis for the circuit to drive, and then a load of stupid things like environmental considerations and ethics, and reasons why people might want to use electricity. I know that stuff is important, but ffs the course I signed up for was Electronics, not "Reasons People Want Electronic Systems and Ethical and Environmental Considerations to be Taken When Doing Electronics".
Back to the thread; I do find (digital) electronics interesting (AFAICR I've never had all that much to do with analogue circuits), but rather than an electrician's social networking site I'd like for someone to write a decent (free/open-source) simulator.
Back to the thread; I do find (digital) electronics interesting (AFAICR I've never had all that much to do with analogue circuits), but rather than an electrician's social networking site I'd like for someone to write a decent (free/open-source) simulator.
closed account (3hM2Nwbp)
A progralectrician society would be a chief candidate to write an open source simulator. (So long as it doesn't turn into an open source cobble job with too many inexperienced cooks in the kitchen..)
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I absolutly love electronics, digital and analog. The day I took an LM380, a chip designed to improve sound systems, and turned it into a proximity detector I knew it was the hobby for me.
Robotics is the ultimate hobby of mine, one I wish I had more time\space for, and it really is the culmination of every hobby I have from programming (via PLC's), to discrete logic design (electronic circuts) and model building (the chasis and body of the robot). I haven't done anything terribly complex, mostly bug-bots and photovores, but this is mostly because I am procrastinating on actually picking a PLC to work with.
Robotics is the ultimate hobby of mine, one I wish I had more time\space for, and it really is the culmination of every hobby I have from programming (via PLC's), to discrete logic design (electronic circuts) and model building (the chasis and body of the robot). I haven't done anything terribly complex, mostly bug-bots and photovores, but this is mostly because I am procrastinating on actually picking a PLC to work with.
closed account (zb0S216C)
I'm into circuit programming. I even have a LaunchPad MSP430 but I don't know where to start with it. I don't even know what its capable of.
Wazzak
Wazzak
Back to the thread; I do find (digital) electronics interesting (AFAICR I've never had all that much to do with analogue circuits), but rather than an electrician's social networking site I'd like for someone to write a decent (free/open-source) simulator. |
I think we will have something special for you. The site will be built around a web-based real-time interactive analog/digital simulator. But it won't be just a simulator - our users will be able to share circuits, comment, discuss, rate, provide their own component models, post photos of built circuits, etc. It won't be completely open though (except the open API) - it is probably a too niche market. It also costs a lot of money to develop a good simulator engine, and probably it is not a task good for a community project. For building a good open source project of that kind of complexity, you need a huge community. If I'm wrong, why is there not a single good open source simulator, but lot of commercial ones?
BTW: If we released it in a freemium model, how much annually would you pay for such a thing?
@ rapidcoder: You'd have to be more clear about your target market. Are you aiming to compete with MATLAB? Auto-CAD? CircutLogix? Remember the price of an item is subjective, and is based not only on demand an utility but on the cost of its alternatives.
As a startup you'd have a LOT of catching up to do, so you'd be better off aiming your development time at range of utility rather then specilizing with all of the unique widgets people like. That kind of focus would take a Project Coordinator IMO, and once you jump that beurocratic fence there's no going back. The cost of entry in development time and testing for this kind of thing would be prohibitive for anything but open source (again, my opinion).
I know that CircutLogix in particular has licenses with IC developers that allow them to code the specific workings of the IC's. I suggest not going this route, if you plan on being commercial because if you code an IC a particular way for the sake of accuracy and it makes the developer look bad, or gives away ANY trade secrets, then get ready for a $---- storm like you can't even imagine.
As a startup you'd have a LOT of catching up to do, so you'd be better off aiming your development time at range of utility rather then specilizing with all of the unique widgets people like. That kind of focus would take a Project Coordinator IMO, and once you jump that beurocratic fence there's no going back. The cost of entry in development time and testing for this kind of thing would be prohibitive for anything but open source (again, my opinion).
I know that CircutLogix in particular has licenses with IC developers that allow them to code the specific workings of the IC's. I suggest not going this route, if you plan on being commercial because if you code an IC a particular way for the sake of accuracy and it makes the developer look bad, or gives away ANY trade secrets, then get ready for a $---- storm like you can't even imagine.
No, we are not competing with professional simulators costing thousands of $. We are going to concentrate on beginners, students, hobbyists.
Most of ICs are patented. If they are patented, their internals are publicly available. Which means noone can sue anyone for giving away any trade secrets, because they already have been described in the public patent documents. They could sue us only if we started selling physical components using their designs (that is why they are patented), but not for selling models (models are only software and there are no software patents in UE). Additionally, component manufacturers are interested in having models of their ICs in as many simulation packages as possible, so theoretically if we were large enough, we could charge them for inclusion of their models in our product. Engineers use components they have models for. And if we are small, noone would ever care.
I suggest not going this route, if you plan on being commercial because if you code an IC a particular way for the sake of accuracy and it makes the developer look bad, or gives away ANY trade secrets, then get ready for a $---- storm like you can't even imagine. |
Most of ICs are patented. If they are patented, their internals are publicly available. Which means noone can sue anyone for giving away any trade secrets, because they already have been described in the public patent documents. They could sue us only if we started selling physical components using their designs (that is why they are patented), but not for selling models (models are only software and there are no software patents in UE). Additionally, component manufacturers are interested in having models of their ICs in as many simulation packages as possible, so theoretically if we were large enough, we could charge them for inclusion of their models in our product. Engineers use components they have models for. And if we are small, noone would ever care.
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| rapidcoder wrote: |
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| But it won't be just a simulator - our users will be able to share circuits, comment, discuss, rate, provide their own component models, post photos of built circuits, etc. |
I like this idea. You should write a framework for people to create their own components, with inheritance (a user-created PIC class inherits from MicroController which inherits from IntegratedCircuit which inherits from Component (everything inherits from Component)). In fact, if you did that, I can imagine that a reasonably sized community could develop purely around creating components, either to mimic real life or just to see who can make the most fully-featured-but-useless component possible. Or both. You could even hold competitions where people pay $1 USD to enter and have a chance to win $0.50 * number of entrants (even if only 10 people enter, you and the winner both get $5). The competitions would be to create the most realistic (or most outlandish, or most over-complicated, or coolest) component.
| rapidcoder wrote: |
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| It won't be completely open though (except the open API) - it is probably a too niche market |
I don't really understand why it being a niche market makes you not want to make it open source. All open source licenses that I can think of will let you make money off of your software. Why not make the software and API open source and then charge people for an account (which would let them upload their self-made components to a website, download other people's components, that sort of thing). It being open source would be conducive to a bigger community if anything, and if you charge a small subscription fee you (on the order of $5-10 USD per account per month) could make a bit of money. You could also include ads in the software and on the website.
| rapidcoder wrote: |
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| If I'm wrong, why is there not a single good open source simulator, but lot of commercial ones? |
Well, there are open source operating systems, kernels, compilers, 3D game engines, OCR engines... just about everything. I think it's partially because it's expensive/difficult, but more likely because as you said, it's a niche thing. Not that many people would use it. There are open source alternatives to everything you can think of that (a) is fun/challenging-but-not-impossible to clone (case in point: Linux) or (b) is used by lots of people (case in point: Android, Firefox, Star/Open/LibreOffice, GIMP).
| rapidcoder wrote: |
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| BTW: If we released it in a freemium model, how much annually would you pay for such a thing? |
To be honest, I don't have much money, and since it's such a non-vital thing for me, I wouldn't pay for it. Other people probably would, though.
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I like this idea. You should write a framework for people to create their own components, with inheritance (a user-created PIC class inherits from MicroController which inherits from IntegratedCircuit which inherits from Component (everything inherits from Component)). In fact, if you did that, I can imagine that a reasonably sized community could develop purely around creating components, either to mimic real life or just to see who can make the most fully-featured-but-useless component possible. Or both. You could even hold competitions where people pay $1 USD to enter and have a chance to win $0.50 * number of entrants (even if only 10 people enter, you and the winner both get $5). The competitions would be to create the most realistic (or most outlandish, or most over-complicated, or coolest) component. |
Yes, this is exactly the plan. Not only competitions for components, but for the whole circuits (like, who creates the fastest sine wave oscillator using only one predefined transistor).
As for making it open-source, it won't be a standalone application, but a SaaS. So practically, I don't thing it is possible to open-source everything. Do you imagine e.g. Google search engine or Facebook or [whatever portal] to be open-source? What for? However, as I previously told you, the modelling API will be open, so you can create your own components or extensions.
| rapidcoder wrote: |
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| the modelling API will be open, so you can create your own components or extensions. |
That's good enough, I just like to push open source.
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