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Riot Outbreak in the UK
I think the mere presence of the army on the street would do alot. Get some Apaches flying around and a few tanks rolling down the road and see how brave the looters are then.
| chrisname wrote: |
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| I think the mere presence of the army on the street would do alot. Get some Apaches flying around and a few tanks rolling down the road and see how brave the looters are then. |
Although I'm all for harsh punishments for rioters, but I don't think the Army has any business policing our streets. It's like trying to kill a mouse with a rocket launcher.
Just saw this "London riots: primary school worker admits burglary": http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/8693162/London-riots-primary-school-worker-admits-burglary.html
Oh, something funny I saw on another forum:
"A Curry's employee in uniform getting arrested in front of Curry's. For looting....Curry's."
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/08/08/article-2023554-0D58092100000578-48_964x554.jpg
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closed account (1vRz3TCk)
| lnk2019 wrote: |
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| I don't think the Army has any business policing our streets. |
I don't think there's an issue with soldiers supplementing police numbers in emergencies such as this - but not with military hardware, of course.
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unfortunately these riots have shown the world how poor the law enforcement of the UK has become over time. This isn't a failure on the part of the police officers on the ground, they do the best they can with what they're allowed. The laws for minors are way too lenient. They think they can get away with murder, well because they can. Even though the public aren't allowed to have guns, the police should still wear sidearms. That just baffles me.
<Rant> For any of you from the UK, let me express to you, when you are next to a police officer who has a gun you tend to be a lot more polite, you also get this urge to not swing baseball bats at them. It doesn't make the cops more aggressive. As a /Firefighter/Paramedic I have never once seen a cop un-holster his weapon unless someone was attacking with a gun. They don't have to be more aggressive because 15 rounds of .40 cal hollow points command respect on their own. </Rant>
I don't agree with full military action. It never should have come to even partial military action but now there's no other choice. They need to break up the groups of rioters. They police stand in formation across the street from them while they loot and burn buildings because they know they don't have to ability to stop it. Tear gas and rubber bullets will break up any riot, and arresting the most violent rioters.
The kids doing this have said this themselves. They're only our doing this because other people are doing it. At first people were protesting and rioting for legitimate reasons, like tuition costs. (That would make me riot.) But now the kids are doing it because it's fun to destroy stuff when you can get away with it. Tear gas, tear gas, tear gas, and rubber bullets for the violent ones.
Think of it, a few canisters of tear gas launched into the crowds and they'll start running. Meanwhile they police have shot rubber bullets at the legs of the people they want to arrest. (A rubber bullet in the thigh will give you a wicked dead leg). When they rioters gather somewhere else, you fire a few more tear gas rounds, a few more rubber bullets. Next thing you know, the people causing destruction are arrested, the rest who are just following the crowd realize they're losing their safety in numbers, and the Police have controlled the riots in about 3 hours instead of 3 days.
PS. Has anyone seen the movie 'Harry Brown'? Fantastic movie by the way.
<Rant> For any of you from the UK, let me express to you, when you are next to a police officer who has a gun you tend to be a lot more polite, you also get this urge to not swing baseball bats at them. It doesn't make the cops more aggressive. As a /Firefighter/Paramedic I have never once seen a cop un-holster his weapon unless someone was attacking with a gun. They don't have to be more aggressive because 15 rounds of .40 cal hollow points command respect on their own. </Rant>
I don't agree with full military action. It never should have come to even partial military action but now there's no other choice. They need to break up the groups of rioters. They police stand in formation across the street from them while they loot and burn buildings because they know they don't have to ability to stop it. Tear gas and rubber bullets will break up any riot, and arresting the most violent rioters.
The kids doing this have said this themselves. They're only our doing this because other people are doing it. At first people were protesting and rioting for legitimate reasons, like tuition costs. (That would make me riot.) But now the kids are doing it because it's fun to destroy stuff when you can get away with it. Tear gas, tear gas, tear gas, and rubber bullets for the violent ones.
Think of it, a few canisters of tear gas launched into the crowds and they'll start running. Meanwhile they police have shot rubber bullets at the legs of the people they want to arrest. (A rubber bullet in the thigh will give you a wicked dead leg). When they rioters gather somewhere else, you fire a few more tear gas rounds, a few more rubber bullets. Next thing you know, the people causing destruction are arrested, the rest who are just following the crowd realize they're losing their safety in numbers, and the Police have controlled the riots in about 3 hours instead of 3 days.
PS. Has anyone seen the movie 'Harry Brown'? Fantastic movie by the way.
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| Randal Johnson wrote: |
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| when you are next to a police officer who has a gun you tend to be a lot more polite, you also get this urge to not swing baseball bats at them. |
I'm quite proud that our police do not need to carry guns to police our streets.
| Randal Johnson wrote: |
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| They don't have to be more aggressive because 15 rounds of .40 cal hollow points command respect on their own. |
| Randal Johnson wrote: |
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| Tear gas, tear gas, tear gas, and rubber bullets for the violent ones. |
@ Randal Johnson
There are ways the police could arm themselves without guns, a tazer for example will stop almost anyone in their tracks, if guns are illegal then nobody should carry them unless absolutely necessary.
Rubber bullets and water cannons have been made available to our police now anyway so hopefully the riots will be over soon.
There are ways the police could arm themselves without guns, a tazer for example will stop almost anyone in their tracks, if guns are illegal then nobody should carry them unless absolutely necessary.
Rubber bullets and water cannons have been made available to our police now anyway so hopefully the riots will be over soon.
closed account (3hM2Nwbp)
| harsh punishments for rioters |
[troll] Time to break the Guillotine back out? [/troll]
PS. Sorry if I offended any English people.
Seriously though, those kids need a few good smacks-up-side-the-head to wake them up.
| Think of it, a few canisters of tear gas launched into the crowds and they'll start running. Meanwhile they police have shot rubber bullets at the legs of the people they want to arrest. (A rubber bullet in the thigh will give you a wicked dead leg). When they rioters gather somewhere else, you fire a few more tear gas rounds, a few more rubber bullets. Next thing you know, the people causing destruction are arrested, the rest who are just following the crowd realize they're losing their safety in numbers, and the Police have controlled the riots in about 3 hours instead of 3 days. |
Completely agree. Take away the lemmings' leader and they're lost.
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closed account (1vRz3TCk)
| a tazer for example will stop almost anyone in their tracks, if guns are illegal then nobody should carry them unless absolutely necessary. |
I believe because the 'gun' ones eject the barbs via a small explosion, they are classed as firearms under UK law and thus can only be used by firearms officers. The hand held ones would be...not good.
closed account (zb0S216C)
After many hours of burning, looting and arrests, the police finally get the go ahead for rubber bullets and a water cannon? Why the delay?
[While a water cannon would be fun to use, I would say that an 8.8cm Flak would be better, or, an M1A1 Abram tank. Excessive, I know, but how much fun would that be? Blowing up Chavs, that is.]
Wazzak
[While a water cannon would be fun to use, I would say that an 8.8cm Flak would be better, or, an M1A1 Abram tank. Excessive, I know, but how much fun would that be? Blowing up Chavs, that is.]
Wazzak
closed account (1vRz3TCk)
Batten rounds can be lethal (especially in crowds), they should not be used at the drop of a hat.
I find it disturbing that people are so willing to to want to escalate the violence. An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth will just lead to a toothless blind society. A riotous atmosphere take time to defuse not force.
I find it disturbing that people are so willing to to want to escalate the violence. An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth will just lead to a toothless blind society. A riotous atmosphere take time to defuse not force.
I'd think the real issue with using the rubber bullets is that you are firing a very real gun into a crowd that is already on edge, if they see someone get hit and go down their not going to stop and see if he's ok or ask you what kind of ammo you used their just going to assume you're LEO's are shooting to kill and charge the police line. At least I'm pretty sure this is why we've all but stopped using them in the US. No this is NOT a rational reaction from the crowd but from what I've read from the locals nothing about these people is.
I'm pretty sure if they mistakenly thought the police were using live rounds they'd be running in the opposite direction...not charging towards the gun-toting officers.
| Completely agree. Take away the lemmings' leader and they're lost |
This is not political. There is no leader, it's just chaos.
Unfortunately watercannon may not actually be so useful either. I heard a high ranking police official saying that they are too slow and unwieldy to be used against fast small moving groups. They are more suited to firing on a large crowd.
@CodeMonkey,
The whole "An eye for an eye makes the world blind" thing is kind of a half-truth. Imagine I take your left eye; then "an eye for an eye" dictates that you should take mine. Following the same principle, I take your right eye. You are now blind. How are you supposed to take my right eye? The correct quote would be "An eye for an eye makes half the world blind, and the other half half-blind".
The whole "An eye for an eye makes the world blind" thing is kind of a half-truth. Imagine I take your left eye; then "an eye for an eye" dictates that you should take mine. Following the same principle, I take your right eye. You are now blind. How are you supposed to take my right eye? The correct quote would be "An eye for an eye makes half the world blind, and the other half half-blind".
@chrisname LOL
EDIT: Not true though. Why do you think Microsoft put accessibility features in Windows?
EDIT: Not true though. Why do you think Microsoft put accessibility features in Windows?
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How do people feel about the video of the rioters getting a swift baton of justice from the police?
I personally felt reassured, but there is some controversy surrounding it.
I personally felt reassured, but there is some controversy surrounding it.
I would have linked it in my earlier post but YouTube's blocked from my work and BBC had taken it down I think. But nevertheless here it is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2VEM8FGVFE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2VEM8FGVFE
Thanks - I was going to ask for the link too. Did it appear to you that the police didn't really check who those guys were before bringing them down. I guess maybe some other officers had already identified them...