Strangely awful code...
I find some of the questions that the "noobies" are asking are a bit strange...
Strange in the sense that the code is so bad that I find it hard to believe that the poster has ever seen a C++ tutorial.
Do people these days just try to code from scratch with the help of Google and forums?
Also, unless people are misquoting their tutors, some of the exercises being set are rather lame. It's rather mean to set someone an ill thought out exercise when there's enough to struggle with in C++ to start with!
Do you remember being set an esp. poor problem?
Andy
Strange in the sense that the code is so bad that I find it hard to believe that the poster has ever seen a C++ tutorial.
Do people these days just try to code from scratch with the help of Google and forums?
Also, unless people are misquoting their tutors, some of the exercises being set are rather lame. It's rather mean to set someone an ill thought out exercise when there's enough to struggle with in C++ to start with!
Do you remember being set an esp. poor problem?
Andy
closed account (1vRz3TCk)
| Do people these days just try to code from scratch with the help of Google and forums? |
Unfortunately most of such exercises seem to stipulate that all solutions must use all of C++'s worst features at least once T__T
It's an interesting challenge; nudging someone just enough that they can then solve a problem, such that they really get it.
I am struggling to rewind back to the time when I had problems with pointers, classes, and the like. But it is causing to revalidate my positions on some of the thing that I've prob come to take a bit too much for granted.
I am struggling to rewind back to the time when I had problems with pointers, classes, and the like. But it is causing to revalidate my positions on some of the thing that I've prob come to take a bit too much for granted.
closed account (zb0S216C)
I do agree that students of C++ who post here, seem to have a poor understanding of the fundamentals. It also seems as though their tutor doesn't have a clue either, but I suppose it's the student that makes the tutor look bad.
On another note, I've noticed that the structure or their program is poorly thought through. Apparently, it seems sufficient to them to fill main( ) with statements to the point where it's about to burst. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't learning the fundamentals the easiest part?
While I agree with you here, I can, and will, vouch for those who actually ask for books and online tutorials.
People say that Google is your friend. True, in some cases, but not all. The problem with using Google is that it doesn't provide a structured learning scheme, so beginners that learn from Google are all over the shop.
Indeed. I've laughed at a few. Still, I can't say much since I never attended any programming schools.
Wazzak
On another note, I've noticed that the structure or their program is poorly thought through. Apparently, it seems sufficient to them to fill main( ) with statements to the point where it's about to burst. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't learning the fundamentals the easiest part?
| andywestken wrote: |
|---|
| Strange in the sense that the code is so bad that I find it hard to believe that the poster has ever seen a C++ tutorial. (sic) |
While I agree with you here, I can, and will, vouch for those who actually ask for books and online tutorials.
| andywestken wrote: |
|---|
| Do people these days just try to code from scratch with the help of Google and forums? (sic) |
People say that Google is your friend. True, in some cases, but not all. The problem with using Google is that it doesn't provide a structured learning scheme, so beginners that learn from Google are all over the shop.
| andywestken wrote: |
|---|
| ...some of the exercises being set are rather lame. (sic) |
Indeed. I've laughed at a few. Still, I can't say much since I never attended any programming schools.
Wazzak
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Well, over the years I've had good and bad tutors. So I have some sympathy for the students.
From one exchange I've had here, feedback is sometimes rather poor.
In this case the guy received a good scrore, but no detailed feedback. And while his code was ok, I didn't think it deserved such a high mark. He was doing a correspondance (online, rather) course, so a face to face review would not have been possible. But some feedback from his tutor would help him a lot.
As far as "fundamental" goes, it depends on the sense of the word. In the sense of the "basics", it is easy. In the sense of the "underlying basis" it can be anything but. For example, "fundamental physics"...
From one exchange I've had here, feedback is sometimes rather poor.
In this case the guy received a good scrore, but no detailed feedback. And while his code was ok, I didn't think it deserved such a high mark. He was doing a correspondance (online, rather) course, so a face to face review would not have been possible. But some feedback from his tutor would help him a lot.
As far as "fundamental" goes, it depends on the sense of the word. In the sense of the "basics", it is easy. In the sense of the "underlying basis" it can be anything but. For example, "fundamental physics"...
| Wazzak wrote: |
|---|
| The problem with using Google is that it doesn't provide a structured learning scheme... |
That depends on what you Google for. ;)
That aside, some of the questions we've been getting recently are a bit strange as in the students seem to have been rushing/rushed. I wonder if some school out there started a project-based learning class that took a few... wrong directions. :/
-Albatross
It has just sunk in that the same questions are being asked by multiple people. Unless they're set up more than one username?
I was about to make a slightly spiked remark about doing what was suggested before, when I realised the (almost identical) question was from a different person. I guess the same exercises will raise the same problems and hence the same questions!
I was about to make a slightly spiked remark about doing what was suggested before, when I realised the (almost identical) question was from a different person. I guess the same exercises will raise the same problems and hence the same questions!
closed account (D80DSL3A)
Summer school.
We may be seeing a lot of students who are trying to make up for classes they failed during the regular academic year.
The brighter bulbs will return in the Fall.
We may be seeing a lot of students who are trying to make up for classes they failed during the regular academic year.
The brighter bulbs will return in the Fall.
andywestken wrote:
The code that really boggles the mind is where the poster clearly lacks an understanding of the elementary concept of while and for loops and has instead used a label together with goto. How did they ever learn of the existence of the goto construct before learning about loops. Surely not from any tutorial of book. Then where?
| I find some of the questions that the "noobies" are asking are a bit strange... Strange in the sense that the code is so bad that I find it hard to believe that the poster has ever seen a C++ tutorial. |
The code that really boggles the mind is where the poster clearly lacks an understanding of the elementary concept of while and for loops and has instead used a label together with goto. How did they ever learn of the existence of the goto construct before learning about loops. Surely not from any tutorial of book. Then where?
andywestken wrote:
It's actually worse then that, too many kids these days get their start in C++ right off of You Tube. If you are asking your self right now "How bad can that be?" then move away from anything breakable and grab a stress ball before you go to see it your self. It gets bad, so bad in fact that I've been thinking of a game that I'm going to call "Spot The Poser" and start it in a new thread if anyone else is interested in being an absolute jerk for a while.
| Do people these days just try to code from scratch with the help of Google and forums? |
It's actually worse then that, too many kids these days get their start in C++ right off of You Tube. If you are asking your self right now "How bad can that be?" then move away from anything breakable and grab a stress ball before you go to see it your self. It gets bad, so bad in fact that I've been thinking of a game that I'm going to call "Spot The Poser" and start it in a new thread if anyone else is interested in being an absolute jerk for a while.
closed account (DSLq5Di1)
The mind boggles when they are seemingly competent at using if and recursion statements, yet do not understand how to apply it to a given problem.
I guess you could count me as one of the 'newbies' although I've been posting on here for a while.
I do try to read tutorials, but they tend to cover just the basics. As far as c++ documentations, for get it. There's too much of a learning curve required just to understand the jargon used in them to be worth my time. I would, if I had time, but i'm in so much of a rush that I tend to look for an easy solution, any easy solution to get the task done. So many times I ask myself wouldn't it have been easier if I had taken the time back then to, actually read a book in the library rather than coding at a computer in the lab. Bottom line though is any time I may have wasted by being a 'copy & code' paster, is still a sunk cost, there is no going back and I sha'n't consider it in re-evaluting whether I shall continue doing what I'm doing or change approaches, learn a new language etc etc etc.
There is a saying i remember reading on the net about computer programming. It goes something like this:
It just goes to show that I'm not the only one that has said to himself "Just a little bit more and I'm done! and I bet you anything that I'm certainly not the only one that has put off studying the technical aspects of the c++ documentations to save time either.
P. S.
I also remember reading on yahoo news a snippet about a scientific study that has shown that Google is having a negative effect on people's memory. It said something like having Google and Wikipedia at your disposal by a click of a mouse, is causing people to rely on it rather than forcing themselves to memorize whatever it is. I have to say that I agree that its probably true. For instance whenever I need to convert from farenheit to celcius or to metic measurements I use google, fuck the formula.
Hopefully one day I'll be able to kick the habbit though.
I do try to read tutorials, but they tend to cover just the basics. As far as c++ documentations, for get it. There's too much of a learning curve required just to understand the jargon used in them to be worth my time. I would, if I had time, but i'm in so much of a rush that I tend to look for an easy solution, any easy solution to get the task done. So many times I ask myself wouldn't it have been easier if I had taken the time back then to, actually read a book in the library rather than coding at a computer in the lab. Bottom line though is any time I may have wasted by being a 'copy & code' paster, is still a sunk cost, there is no going back and I sha'n't consider it in re-evaluting whether I shall continue doing what I'm doing or change approaches, learn a new language etc etc etc.
There is a saying i remember reading on the net about computer programming. It goes something like this:
| 90% of the time required to code a project is spent on 10% of the code. The rest of the code is coded in the remaining 90% of the time. |
P. S.
I also remember reading on yahoo news a snippet about a scientific study that has shown that Google is having a negative effect on people's memory. It said something like having Google and Wikipedia at your disposal by a click of a mouse, is causing people to rely on it rather than forcing themselves to memorize whatever it is. I have to say that I agree that its probably true. For instance whenever I need to convert from farenheit to celcius or to metic measurements I use google, fuck the formula.
Hopefully one day I'll be able to kick the habbit though.
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closed account (1yR4jE8b)
99% of my questions about C++ stem from wanting to learn 100% of its most arcane features and gotchas, leading me to come up with the most ridiculous code snippets --- for the sake of education.
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