Secondary Education Q/R

[3hM2Nwbp]

(Q/R->Question/Rant)

Is there such a thing as a "quick CS degree"? All programs that I've looked into require all of this fluff crap that goes along with what you need to should know. I mean, come on...a JOGGING class?? When I got my AAS in mechanics, all of the courses were field-related (useful). I've always kind of wanted a CS degree as well, but don't want to spend another 4 years (and $40,000) of my life in school. I've already taken electives in C++, Java, and x86 assembler when I was going for my first degree, but apparently it takes a lot more than just CS-related courses to get a CS degree...

[Albatross]

Wow... you're paying only $10,000 a year for college? Maybe that's why the CS degree offered there has a lot of fluff with it...

But... in response the Q part of your Q/R, I don't know. Sorry. :)

-Albatross

[3hM2Nwbp]

I took the community college quickie route to get my first degree. :P The base tuition was actually around $6,000 per semester, plus books, specialty tools, etc. I've looked into pretty much all of the local (within 100 miles) colleges from where I'm living now, but all of their programs look oddly similar (and bloated).

[Seraphimsan]

Sucks for you guys. The university I'm attending is roughly $3,000 a semester!

[ultifinitus]

I can go to school for $5/credit as an employee of my uni.. However the robotics engineering program I'm going to go into runs from 9-3, while my job runs from 8-4... I was told (must be lying I'm definitely not this good) that I can get by with two hours of labs a day an do the rest on my own... Doubtful.. Life is certainly interesting once you get out of high school!

What an absolute waste of time some programs are. For instance my local CS program is absolutely wretched. I sat in on a programming class, and it was decent, but the guy was obviously not a native C++ programmer. I'm fairly sure he was a Basic, which doesn't bode well for the future of that class =]

@Luc: how was the assembler class? Did you learn enough to actually write anything useful?

[Computergeek01]

@ Luc Lieber: It truely is a sad, sad, sad, sad day, when the stereotype of a computer programmer being over weight has gotten to the point where a JOGGING class is a mandatory part of the CS curriculum. I've always looked at that stuff and thought "No wonder this is mandatory, why else would anyone take this stupid class."

Can I just say, that despite all of the knowledge I have gathered on this site. It has done incredible amounts toward discouraging me from ever going back to school again. I have an AOS degree, which isn't worth the paper it's printed on IMO. But even though I want to go back for a BS in Computer Science; I just don't think I could do it after the horror stories I've read here.

[3hM2Nwbp]

@ultifinitus
The assembler class was a complete waste of time. The instructor was obviously never involved in any real-world programming, and the content covered reinforced that fact. None of the code that was done would plug in well to anything, it wasn't modular (yes, assembler can be done so that it is "modular"), and was quite frankly a great big mess. Sure, he could quote verbatim from the text-book and use all of the big words therein, but I'm sure he couldn't code himself out of a paper bag. In short, the class taught concepts reasonably well, but not practical application (which is vastly more important imho). The C++ course, however, wasn't too bad. The C++ instructor was an old FORTRAN programmer with a hint of a German accent that was older than the hills - he was a riot. The java course was....well, Java-ey, enough said :P

Keep in mind that that's only my opinion, having been programming for a few years and dabbling with assembler prior to taking any of the courses.

[Return 0]

@Luc Lieber - There is no such thing as a quick CS degree. I'm not sure which university you are referring to but a normal CS curriculum follows the ACMs guidelines. It is entirely up to the university however to require courses outside of the typical general education requirements. Often you'll find schools that force public speaking courses... or in your case... jogging lol. I hope you are kidding about the jogging class... if your aren't please post the syllabus! :). As far as the "fluff" that comes along with a CS degree, I'm not sure what you are referring to exactly. Here is what a typical CS degree should cover (this was my curriculum at the time):


Calculus I
Calculus II
Applied Statistics
Physics I
Physics II
Introduction to Computer and Information Sciences (C++)
Discrete Mathematics
Computer Programming I (C++)
Assemblers and Assembly Language Programming (x86 Assembly)
Computer Programming II (Java)
Data Structures (Java)
Networks and Data Communication
Software Engineering
Operating Systems Concepts
Computer Architecture
Systems Programming
Design and Analysis of Algorithms (Java)
Web Programming and Design (JavaScript, Ruby, PHP, etc...)
Foundations of Computer Science
Artificial Intelligence
Numerical Analysis (C++)
Distributed Data Processing (Java, SQL, Oracle)
Database Management (Oracle)
Computer Graphics (Java)
Introduction to Compilers and Interpreters

As you can see, there is no fluff here. Every course taught relevant concepts. Assembly courses never teach real world application simply because the language is very difficult to program with and just takes too much effort. Realistically most of the assembler professors have never used it in the real world before either. It's still going to take you 4 years to get a CS degree.

[3hM2Nwbp]

Here's a sample curriculum of an associates program from a local college, this is by far the worst that I've looked into:

Sample Sequence: intended as a guide for academic planning.

First Semester
Network Fundamentals (CSNT 1200)
Structured and Object-Oriented Problem-Solving (CSCS 1240) // <-- Tested out of
Program Elective (CSCS 1200 recommended)
Calculus I (MATH 1610)
English (ENGL 1010)
Wellness (Awareness/Instructional Component) // <--example:"Stress Management"-->

Second Semester
C/C++ Programming (CSCS 1320) // <-- Taken
UNIX/Linux Fundamentals (CSCS 1730)
Calculus II (MATH 1620)
Social Sciences elective
English (ENGL 1020)
Wellness (Activity Component) // <-- Archery, Badminton, Bowling, Golf, Self Defense, Volleyball, Tai-Chi
	/*PFIT 1021 Jogging
	Techniques to develop and maintain cardiovascular and
	physical fitness. Effect of exercise and maintenance of
	health through physical activity. Individualized
	jogging and exercise programs.
	(1 cr. hr.) (Fall, Spring). Lecture/activity.*/

Third Semester
Social Sciences elective2
Laboratory Science elective1
Free elective1
Data Structures (CSCS 2320)
Discrete Structures (CSCS 2330)
Wellness (Activity Component)

Fourth Semester
Computer Organization (CSCS 2650) // <-- Taken
Program elective2
Liberal Arts & Sciences electives1
Laboratory Science elective1

Total Related Hours: 39
Total Fluff Hours: 29

As you can see, the rant is somewhat exaggerated, the B.S. programs are a little less fluffy, but still...

[Return 0]

The reason you have these extra courses is because it's an associate of science degree. There are two types of associate degrees. The associate of arts focuses on completing general education and basic course requirements to transfer to a 4 year university bachelors program where you would take all of your core courses. An associate of science assumes immediate entry into the work force and attempts to strike a balance between general education and core courses. What you posted is quite typical of an AS. A typical Bachelors in computer science consists of 120 credits while an AS/AA will be around 60, much of which will be general education (humanities, etc...).

[helios]

This thread makes me feel thankful for having public-funded universities (one of which is the best in the country, by the way). I only have to pay like ~$1 per semester to attend classes, and then there's a fee of ~$20 to do a doctorate (this last number may be completely bogus, but it was the only value I found when I looked this up).

Is there such a thing as a "quick CS degree"?

See, it's called computer science. The point is to train you to be able to do scientific research. Maybe what you're looking for is something less college-ish. I'm sure you can find schools that give game programming courses or stuff like that.

But even though I want to go back for a BS in Computer Science; I just don't think I could do it after the horror stories I've read here.

I demand links and/or search terms!

[ultifinitus]

HELIOS!! I haven't seen you in forever!! Life good?

[Return 0]

Holy shit, Helios is alive? Seriously I thought you were dead. Where have you been man!?

[Albatross]

I swear, helios, we're going to shackle you to your desk if you have any more ideas of slipping off without saying a word. >:|

Welcome back!

-Albatross

[3hM2Nwbp]

@helios
Game programming isn't really that appealing, but at the same time I don't really want to be creating the future either. I just want to be around the same level as others in the field with the documentation to show for it, if that makes sense.

[thepedestrian]

I only have to pay like ~$1 per semester to attend classes

Wow. That is amazing.

Do you by any chance know how much it is for a private institution?

[Return 0]

Luc Lieber wrote:

I just want to be around the same level as others in the field with the documentation to show for it, if that makes sense.

This implies a Computer Information Systems degree is your best bet considering a CS degree is considerably more challenging to complete. CIS == Typical Programmer. But even so, a CIS (aka software engineering) bachelors degree is still going to take the same amount of time a CS degree will take unless you attend a rip off non regionally accredited accelerated university (I'm not implying you can't learn at these schools).

Ultimately the best suited education is dependent on what you want to do with it. What are you looking to do?

[3hM2Nwbp]

What are you looking to do?

I can't honestly answer that. Right now I'm doing just fine with my career. I suppose the only reason that I want to get it would be "Why not?" - that's the same reason that bumped me to quit my old job in warehouse management to go for my first degree.

[helios]

Come on, people. The point of disappearing without a trace to avoid the cliched "leaving forever" post is somewhat nullified if you all go "welcome back" when I post again, and then I proceed to explain what happened.
I got tired of all the trolling and decided to stay away for a while. Now I was bored and thought "let's see what the old board is up to".

Game programming isn't really that appealing

I only said game programming as an example. My point is that I think what you want is something closer to software engineering/development, rather than computer science.
This picture neatly sums up what (I think) a lot of people expect CS to be: http://img197.imageshack.us/i/129024946898.png/

I just want to be around the same level as others in the field with the documentation to show for it

I don't know what's the job situation where you live, but nearly 100% of the programming job ads I've seen that had any education requirements read some variation of "must be in the Xth year of an IT-related college career". The degree isn't too relevant outside of an academic context, as far as programming is concerned. More advanced positions (e.g. software architect) might have more strict requirements, but I've never heard of anyone who's had to show their diploma to get a job.

Do you by any chance know how much it is for a private institution?

A friend who's in CS in a private school once told me the monthly fee was of about ~$125. For reference, a monthly net salary (after subtracting union fees et cetera) of $1000 is pretty good. Of course, there are many universities and of varying costs.

(Note that all the values are in US dollars and estimated by dividing the actual value in the local currency by 4.)

[kfmfe04]

As usual, Helios brings up the most critical point.

Do you want to learn the theory or do you want to program?
If you just want to get your hands dirty, dive right in and do projects!

That's how I ended up with a programming career - my undergrad was in EE which has nothing to do with software!

And if you REALLY want to learn CS theory, IMHO, most of CS theory isn't that hard relative to something like a math or a physics degree...