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Regarding Java
closed account (S6k9GNh0)
Actually, I love the D syntax. However, the community is partially split due to two standard libraries (although latest removed the older library). There is also the problem with constant C support and no D support. However, quick bindings can be made and then wrapped around using sexy syntax. D is a low level language (relatively speaking, you could create an entire OS with just D which some don't realize). And D supports a LOT of the syntax the some C++ users wish C++ had! It's community, however little it is, is relatively nice and experienced and are helpful to newcomers of the language.
However, the community is small and sometimes not sufficient. The compilers themselves lack enough support and are slow to development. There is occasionally more than one simplified way to do something, some of which we may not know if it is more optimized than the other. Some syntax is thrown in there just for added feature and boasting power. I'd like to say the language overall isn't as experienced or "optimized" as C or C++.
Despite all that, I find myself having a ton of fun with design in D. I can do just about anything I want and feel powerful where as I'm sometimes looking for design workarounds in C++.
"I can do anything by power in C/++."
"I can do anything by design in D."
However, the community is small and sometimes not sufficient. The compilers themselves lack enough support and are slow to development. There is occasionally more than one simplified way to do something, some of which we may not know if it is more optimized than the other. Some syntax is thrown in there just for added feature and boasting power. I'd like to say the language overall isn't as experienced or "optimized" as C or C++.
Despite all that, I find myself having a ton of fun with design in D. I can do just about anything I want and feel powerful where as I'm sometimes looking for design workarounds in C++.
"I can do anything by power in C/++."
"I can do anything by design in D."
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| Albatross wrote: |
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| It's amazing how this thread descended into a language debate... |
I want to clarify something. I don't hate Java anymore than I hate C++. Actually, I probably care about C++ more, and hate it much more. Java actually solves some issues I have with C++.
| Albatross wrote: |
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| The way I see it, each language has its advantages and disadvantages, owing to each language's different purpose,.. |
The question is whether the differences are due to unavoidable limitations in the language design that can not be overcome, or to decisions made to support certain paradigm and development model exclusively. I do not agree that the language design of Java can not be safely extended beyond just high-level development. The language is virtually C++ with certain anomalies cured (... and some things missing.) And those anomalies are due to the implicit semantics - implicit conversion, implicit construction, implicit definitions. The low-level features were never at fault. And standalone apps are ok with any language design. This is not fundamental issue at all. It is a question of policy.
I understand how Haskell can not be used the way C++ is used. Or Python, or R, or smth. They are different from the ground up. But the differences between Java and C++ are completely artificially protracted.
| rapidcoder wrote: |
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| No language is perfect for all the tasks, so if you know more of them, the better for you. |
Learning multiple languages is fine, as long as they are truly different. Learning a functional language, data mining language, numerical computing language, symbolic computing language - that I understand and admire. But learning several imperative OO languages... is unfortunate industrial demand.
P.S. What do you use to program GUI, databases and such in D? I know that they have no working Qt binding. But I guess people are using other frameworks then.
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| Albatross wrote: |
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| So the two standard libraries, no shared object support, and string handling controversies have been resolved? [/rhetoric] Sorry, but I'm not trying D just yet. :/ |
I was trolling considering what the thread had become. I have no interest in D and very little in Java.
@Return 0:
And I was trolling back. Well... not really. ;)
@simeonz:
I think you missed the point of my post. :/
@all
Seriously, though. Must this language debate continue?
-Albatross
And I was trolling back. Well... not really. ;)
@simeonz:
I think you missed the point of my post. :/
@all
Seriously, though. Must this language debate continue?
-Albatross
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All right. May be I am distracted from the main thing. That we should be grateful that to have many options, instead of forced to use one. A little flame keeps us warm, eh. lol
| People defend their favourite languages so passionately...why not just use the best tool for the job in all situations rather than argue which language is 'best' The way I see it, each language has its advantages and disadvantages, owing to each language's different purpose, and while it's neat to uncover them I wouldn't debate about which language is better based on those. |
My take on languages is summarized in above 2 posts. Certain language is just better for certain business requirements implementation. To have ONE language to do all is not really what I experience in my working career.
Now to side-step, why is it we cannot apply the above ideas to our spouse system? In my country we can only legally marry one wife and if we want another we must divorce existing before re-marrying. This culture contradicts to how I like different programming language to serve different needs so ironic isn't it ? :)
soh, the thing is that in many cases finding a language that is objectively the best for the job is pretty much impossible.
You don't have to. Process of making software is very subjective. We are not robots.
Your choice of language may be good for you, but bad for someone else. Therefore a lot can be told about the programmer just by looking at his/her favourite set of languages. The differences are especially visible if you look at the whole communities.
Look at the Java/C++ forums/discussion sites and in the Haskell/*ML/Lisp forums. You will immediately see that the formers are used mostly by students while the latter are used mostly by scientists.
Your choice of language may be good for you, but bad for someone else. Therefore a lot can be told about the programmer just by looking at his/her favourite set of languages. The differences are especially visible if you look at the whole communities.
Look at the Java/C++ forums/discussion sites and in the Haskell/*ML/Lisp forums. You will immediately see that the formers are used mostly by students while the latter are used mostly by scientists.
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| soh, the thing is that in many cases finding a language that is objectively the best for the job is pretty much impossible. |
hanst99: I agree totally with your opinion but there will always be developers who have another opinion and to them having THE ONE programming language is supposed to solve all business problems which to me is an ideal rather than practicality in reality.
rapidcoder: We are not robots I agree but the software we develop work like a "robot" as in it is programmed to do what we developers tell them to do. When we are emotionally stressed, we write "wrong" instructions and the robot perform our wrong instructions faithfully.
To this I got to salute robots. You are an obedient follower better than our pet dogs which have mood swings now and then hahaha.... :)
Just saying, in most cases the practical solution is going with a language you already know.
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