2011
First and foremost,
You're right, it wasn't fair to quote you out of context like that. I'm sorry.
The research I've seen drew the conclusion that it resulted in increased feelings of aggression, something to do with increased activity in certain areas of the brain and increased adrenaline flow through the brain (which anyone who has ever played such a game can attest to). It did not, however, correlate that to an increase in violent or aggressive behaviour. Increased feelings of aggression and increased aggressive action aren't the same.
If the statistics are true, it doesn't matter who published them.
I think we can agree that Wikipedia is neutral: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/6b/Ncsucr2.gif
I don't know about this website, but I don't see why this statistic would be false: http://www.acagamic.com/uploads/2009/01/video_game_industry_revenue.png
It tells the exact same story. Violent crime in North America is decreasing while video game sales increase.
Also, I found the first image in a link from http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/video-game-violence.htm
I think we can again agree that that website does not have a "direct, financial interest" in publishing false information.
See, I can't find any sound research that would prove that. I've actually looked. It's all very well saying "this is proven by very sound research" but when you don't back up your claims by actually showing that research, it makes your words sound kind of empty.
| Duoas wrote: |
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| I would not have posted here in this stupid discussion if I had not been used to make a false argument. |
You're right, it wasn't fair to quote you out of context like that. I'm sorry.
| Duoas wrote: |
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| This is true, but there is a lot of emperical (scientific) evidence that directly correlates playing violent videogames with increased aggression. |
The research I've seen drew the conclusion that it resulted in increased feelings of aggression, something to do with increased activity in certain areas of the brain and increased adrenaline flow through the brain (which anyone who has ever played such a game can attest to). It did not, however, correlate that to an increase in violent or aggressive behaviour. Increased feelings of aggression and increased aggressive action aren't the same.
| Duoas wrote: |
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| That image and those statistics are published by people who have a direct, financial interest in convincing the public that violent video games have no negative effects whatsoever upon the populace |
If the statistics are true, it doesn't matter who published them.
I think we can agree that Wikipedia is neutral: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/6b/Ncsucr2.gif
I don't know about this website, but I don't see why this statistic would be false: http://www.acagamic.com/uploads/2009/01/video_game_industry_revenue.png
It tells the exact same story. Violent crime in North America is decreasing while video game sales increase.
Also, I found the first image in a link from http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/video-game-violence.htm
I think we can again agree that that website does not have a "direct, financial interest" in publishing false information.
| Duoas wrote: |
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| it is proven, by very sound research, that exposure to violent programming increases violent tendencies and feelings significantly |
See, I can't find any sound research that would prove that. I've actually looked. It's all very well saying "this is proven by very sound research" but when you don't back up your claims by actually showing that research, it makes your words sound kind of empty.
http://www.gamesbrief.com/assets/images/violentcrimeversusgamesales.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/6b/Ncsucr2.gif (where is it from?)
The graphs are quite different.
However, how do you measure total violent crime if it wasn't reported?
and, what happen in 1993?
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/6b/Ncsucr2.gif (where is it from?)
The graphs are quite different.
However, how do you measure total violent crime if it wasn't reported?
and, what happen in 1993?
| and, what happen in 1993? |
You mean why did violent crime suddenly start dropping off?
Maybe because video games were becoming more popular.
ZING.
it appears to come from this news article in spanish: "Psychology Studies: Videogames don't cause real violence"
http://www.infoconsolas.com/otros/videojuegos-y-sociedad/estudios-psicologicos-los-videojuegos-no-causan-violencia-real
http://www.infoconsolas.com/otros/videojuegos-y-sociedad/estudios-psicologicos-los-videojuegos-no-causan-violencia-real
| chrisname wrote: |
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| The research I've seen drew the conclusion that it resulted in increased feelings of aggression |
Perhaps there is more than what you've found so far. But anyway, what you've seen says it is causal that the games do produce aggressive feelings. Oh, wait, didn't I say that already?
| Duoas wrote: |
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| it is proven, by very sound research, that exposure to violent programming increases violent tendencies and feelings significantly |
| chrisname wrote: |
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| It did not, however, correlate that to an increase in violent or aggressive behaviour. |
Part of the problem is how people measure things, and for something like this, the things said are polar. 'My kid played mortal kombat so now he disembowled his little brother.' 'Your kids played violent games and shot up their highschool.' Sue sue sue. Showing statistics for game play and violent crimes is like showing statistics for apple production and the vomit rate for people who eat rotten apples. It is misleading.
Finally, I never even implied that people have any interest in publishing false information. What I did say was that there are some who publish information that is misleading, requiring you to judge something, which most people are not qualified to do, based upon incomplete evidence.
| See, I can't find any sound research that would prove that. I've actually looked. It's all very well saying "this is proven by very sound research" but when you don't back up your claims by actually showing that research, it makes your words sound kind of empty. |
So, do you really want to get violent over this? Are you feeling aggressive about it? Have at it. I'm not wasting any more time on it. At this point, I'm used to the ad homenim and burden of proof fallacies. Feel free to direct more at me.
It's a shame that this topic continues to resurface. It does not belong on this forum... unless we are discussing the technical aspects of making violent video games...
On another note, I'm looking into using Scheme for some AI studies. Can anyone recommend an interpreter? Duoas, if I remember correctly you had experience in this area. What is your preference?
On another note, I'm looking into using Scheme for some AI studies. Can anyone recommend an interpreter? Duoas, if I remember correctly you had experience in this area. What is your preference?
| Return 0 wrote: |
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| It's a shame that this topic continues to resurface. It does not belong on this forum... unless we are discussing the technical aspects of making violent video games... |
Why is that? Isn't the lounge supposed to be a place for off topic discussion?
| Duoas wrote: |
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| So, do you really want to get violent over this? Are you feeling aggressive about it? Have at it. I'm not wasting any more time on it. At this point, I'm used to the ad homenim and burden of proof fallacies. Feel free to direct more at me. |
This is absolutely, completely ridiculous. I haven't been aggressive at all, so quit putting words in my mouth, cut the sarcastic, aggressive attitude, and stop with the flamebait, will you? This started as a calm discussion. Admittedly, I quoted you unfairly and out of context, but I apologised for that. There was no need to start escalating things. You are being aggressive, not me. I have a lot of respect for you as a programmer, but frankly, to me, it seems like you're being arbitrary and immature.
I'm out of here.
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| filipe wrote: |
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| Why is that? Isn't the lounge supposed to be a place for off topic discussion? |
Do I really need to explain why?
Well, it isn't the topic's fault that the discussion got a little too uncivilized. A discussion about bracing styles, for example, could easily lead to the same thing. I've discussed religion and politics here, two subjects that tend to raise tempers, and I think it went pretty well.
Disch wrote:
But correlation may imply causation. It requires further research to determine the whether a relationship shows causation or merely correlation. Another example is grades. There is a correlation between grades and intelligence, but lack of intelligence isn't, in my opinion, the main contributor to grades. I have three F's out of four but still consider myself quite intelligent.
Kyon said:
No one in his right mind would, but unfortunately some people do. Violent video games could have a profound effect on children because they are very impressionable at a young age. Personally I believe that rating systems are a good thing as long as they are only used as a reference.
Many people have refered to studies which they haven't included a reference or link to. It's not that I don't trust you, but I think the direct source of information is very important.
On the topic of statistics, data can be easily manipulated to show misleading information. It is very important that the source of the study is unbiased.
filipe said:
It is, but read the first few posts to see how far this thread has gone from the original topic. Individual threads should focus on a general topic, with mild digressions. If a posts become radically different from the topic then a new thread ought to be started.
| Correlation does not imply causation. |
But correlation may imply causation. It requires further research to determine the whether a relationship shows causation or merely correlation. Another example is grades. There is a correlation between grades and intelligence, but lack of intelligence isn't, in my opinion, the main contributor to grades. I have three F's out of four but still consider myself quite intelligent.
Kyon said:
| Game ratings suck anyways - like anyone would get it into his mind to gift a 5 year old bloody Postal for his birthday. |
No one in his right mind would, but unfortunately some people do. Violent video games could have a profound effect on children because they are very impressionable at a young age. Personally I believe that rating systems are a good thing as long as they are only used as a reference.
Many people have refered to studies which they haven't included a reference or link to. It's not that I don't trust you, but I think the direct source of information is very important.
On the topic of statistics, data can be easily manipulated to show misleading information. It is very important that the source of the study is unbiased.
filipe said:
| Why is that? Isn't the lounge supposed to be a place for off topic discussion? |
It is, but read the first few posts to see how far this thread has gone from the original topic. Individual threads should focus on a general topic, with mild digressions. If a posts become radically different from the topic then a new thread ought to be started.
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