Mac
Hey,
I'm thinking of buying a Mac, but I'm unsure which will satisfy my needs. What I want is a fast computer that is strong enough to play 3D games on and which has a decent amount of memory to store stuff on. I'm mainly going to use it for programming, gaming, watching videos, listening music and image editing/creation.
A friend of mine recommended the Mac mini, but I'm unsure of whether it corresponds to my needs. I'm not really a genius when it comes to hardware related terms, so try keeping it as simple as possible. :P
Oh, the website I found the different ones on is the official website:
http://www.apple.com/why-mac/compare/
Thanks in advance,
That Dutch guy
I'm thinking of buying a Mac, but I'm unsure which will satisfy my needs. What I want is a fast computer that is strong enough to play 3D games on and which has a decent amount of memory to store stuff on. I'm mainly going to use it for programming, gaming, watching videos, listening music and image editing/creation.
A friend of mine recommended the Mac mini, but I'm unsure of whether it corresponds to my needs. I'm not really a genius when it comes to hardware related terms, so try keeping it as simple as possible. :P
Oh, the website I found the different ones on is the official website:
http://www.apple.com/why-mac/compare/
Thanks in advance,
That Dutch guy
If you want to play 3D games, I wouldn't get a Mac... Most games are released exclusively for Windows unfortunately.
Well, that has been taken care off; Steam is used on Mac too, now, so it's more a hardware problem than a software problem at the moment. (Atleast for me, since there are some really nice games on the Mac already and through the magic of Steam, I already happen to own them for the Mac too. :D)
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If you're not specifically interested in a desktop: get the MacBook Pro; they've gotten much better with processing power and they're portable (they're laptops). Else, the Mini is a good suggestion, as it has a pretty fair amount of processing power and it's quite small. The wireless keyboard and a wireless mouse/trackpad cost and additional $69 each, bringing the grand total to less than an iMac (which includes everything, including the monitor, hehe). That's my 2ยข.
-Macintross
-Macintross
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Even if a game isn't for Mac OS X, you can put Windows on your Mac via Bootcamp. I wouldn't have gotten mine if that wasn't an option. Bootcamp isn't emulation, it's a full-on separate partition. Just wanted to make sure that was understood.
I agree with Albatross. I have the baseline Macbook Pro 15" (2.4GHz Core i5, NVIDIA GeForce 330M w/ 256MB VRAM) and I've been playing Mafia II at max settings (albeit, no AA) on my Windows partition at very playable FPS. I never got FRAPS, but I'm guessing it was above 30 FPS. In my OpenGL application, which had very little optimization, I could go to around 250,000 triangles without my program slowing down by a noticeable amount.
Of course, this is all depending on your budget. My Macbook Pro cost $1,900 (too impatient to wait for it in the mail, I was willing to pay the 7% sales tax), which, to me, was worth it. However $1,900 will probably not be in your price range. If you're a college student you could get a discount on it, with the discount the baseline 15" was $1,700, if I remember correctly. But the fact that you're looking at a Mac Mini tells me you're more on the budget for a PC. If you do go Mac Mini, you should be able to play games on it on somewhat lower settings, just remember that it has no dedicated VRAM and graphics will almost never be high-quality. Generally Apple does a good job with their computers, you get what you pay for. Mac OS X on that Mac Mini will be no slower than Mac OS X on this MacBook Pro. However, video and audio editing may be a bit strenuous for the system. That isn't to say that it won't be possible, it's just that it will be a bit slow once you get into a complex project. If you do go for the Mac Mini, get the 4GB model at the least. I've found Mac OS X to have memory leak issues occasionally which builds up pretty quickly.
I agree with Albatross. I have the baseline Macbook Pro 15" (2.4GHz Core i5, NVIDIA GeForce 330M w/ 256MB VRAM) and I've been playing Mafia II at max settings (albeit, no AA) on my Windows partition at very playable FPS. I never got FRAPS, but I'm guessing it was above 30 FPS. In my OpenGL application, which had very little optimization, I could go to around 250,000 triangles without my program slowing down by a noticeable amount.
Of course, this is all depending on your budget. My Macbook Pro cost $1,900 (too impatient to wait for it in the mail, I was willing to pay the 7% sales tax), which, to me, was worth it. However $1,900 will probably not be in your price range. If you're a college student you could get a discount on it, with the discount the baseline 15" was $1,700, if I remember correctly. But the fact that you're looking at a Mac Mini tells me you're more on the budget for a PC. If you do go Mac Mini, you should be able to play games on it on somewhat lower settings, just remember that it has no dedicated VRAM and graphics will almost never be high-quality. Generally Apple does a good job with their computers, you get what you pay for. Mac OS X on that Mac Mini will be no slower than Mac OS X on this MacBook Pro. However, video and audio editing may be a bit strenuous for the system. That isn't to say that it won't be possible, it's just that it will be a bit slow once you get into a complex project. If you do go for the Mac Mini, get the 4GB model at the least. I've found Mac OS X to have memory leak issues occasionally which builds up pretty quickly.
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I've heard that you can buy the components for a Mac(book) individually, to assemble it yourself in the end. It would safe a lot of money, is that rumor true? (And if so, how much would you safe, and is it hard to put it all together?)
EDIT:
As of the Desktop/Macbook-dilemma, I'd be more interested in a Desktop. The iMac seems nice (but expensive), too.
EDIT:
As of the Desktop/Macbook-dilemma, I'd be more interested in a Desktop. The iMac seems nice (but expensive), too.
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I haven't heard such a rumor, and I wouldn't necessarily trust the perpetrator. Macs use a lot of proprietary hardware, and I wasn't aware of any of it being on the open market.
-Albatross
-Albatross
Hm, okay then. As of the iMac, how good is, compared to .. let's say, the Macbook Pro and the Mac mini? (As said before, I'm not quite good at deciphering hardware descriptions.)
The baseline iMac seems to be a higher performance setup than a baseline 15" Macbook Pro or a Mac Mini (although 3.06 GHz Core i3 vs 2.4 GHz Core i5... I wonder), BUT the Mini should more than suffice for gaming (although Core 2 Duo @ 2.4GHz < Core i5 @ 2.4GHz).
-Albatross
-Albatross
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Don't believe people when they've said that they built their own MacBook. It's difficult enough to build a Mac Pro with non-propriety parts, a MacBook with its unibody build would be much harder.
My main issue with the Mac Mini for gaming is that it has no dedicated VRAM. It's practically a more powerful Intel integrated GPU, so don't expect much out of it in terms of gaming.
The iMac can be upgraded to a Radeon HD 5750 graphics card, which should be more than suffice for gaming. I'd expect Crysis on medium-high settings on that. The 3.06GHz Core i3 should be faster than my 2.4GHz Core i5, I believe that specific model is dual core with hyperthreading. I don't know what's going on with Intel's branding of their CPUs, it's hard to tell what has hyperthreading, what's dual- or quad-core, it's annoying really.
Again, this is mostly dependent on how much you're willing to spend on it, Kyon. Mind giving us a price-range?
My main issue with the Mac Mini for gaming is that it has no dedicated VRAM. It's practically a more powerful Intel integrated GPU, so don't expect much out of it in terms of gaming.
The iMac can be upgraded to a Radeon HD 5750 graphics card, which should be more than suffice for gaming. I'd expect Crysis on medium-high settings on that. The 3.06GHz Core i3 should be faster than my 2.4GHz Core i5, I believe that specific model is dual core with hyperthreading. I don't know what's going on with Intel's branding of their CPUs, it's hard to tell what has hyperthreading, what's dual- or quad-core, it's annoying really.
Again, this is mostly dependent on how much you're willing to spend on it, Kyon. Mind giving us a price-range?
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| Albatross wrote: |
|---|
| the Mini should more than suffice for gaming |
| NGen wrote: |
|---|
| so don't expect much out of it in terms of gaming |
This really isn't making things easier. : /
Keeping things around 800 euros/dollars is my aim. That does not have to include screen/mouse/keyboard. It's really all about the capabilities of the Mini, or I'd have to be REALLY nice to my parents for a while. *hint**hint*
Alright, that helps. I think Albatross and I have different definitions of what systems are good for gaming. Can you list some games that you'll be planning?
Mac Mini will have difficulties running that.
With that kind of budget, I'd honestly recommend a PC. For $800 you can get a pretty good build.
With that kind of budget, I'd honestly recommend a PC. For $800 you can get a pretty good build.
Actually, agreed. $800 will not really get you a Mac good enough to run those three with ease. Windows 7 apparently isn't that bad...
-Albatross
-Albatross
Windows 7 is the new XP, IMO.
http://www.amazon.com/HP-Pavilion-Slimline-s5560f-Desktop/dp/B003L0OQ4M/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1286673290&sr=8-1
That's just proof that you can get a much better system for cheaper. Macs are great if you can afford it, but in terms of practicality PCs are the way to go.
Now, I wouldn't specifically suggest that PC. The Radeon HD 5450 isn't exactly a gaming graphics card. I'd suggest a 5750, but you can always upgrade later if you want to.
http://www.amazon.com/HP-Pavilion-Slimline-s5560f-Desktop/dp/B003L0OQ4M/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1286673290&sr=8-1
That's just proof that you can get a much better system for cheaper. Macs are great if you can afford it, but in terms of practicality PCs are the way to go.
Now, I wouldn't specifically suggest that PC. The Radeon HD 5450 isn't exactly a gaming graphics card. I'd suggest a 5750, but you can always upgrade later if you want to.
I bought an iMac 27" i7 a few months back and it's the best desktop purchase I have ever made by far (buying machines since '84 - have had PCs, Suns, Macs, laptops, desktops, workstations, etc...). There is one power cable that goes into the wall and that's it - the keyboard is wireless, the mouse is wireless, and there are no connections between the box and the monitor because the monitor is the box. It's also dead quiet - the fan never turns on unless I'm playing a PC game under Wine (eg Company of Heroes). It was trivial to connect a second flatscreen: plug and play (with the right cable).
The underlying OS is essentially FreeBSD so that means underneath the ease-of-use and polish of OS X, you have a Unix-variant with all the useful programs and tools that come with it. There is a fan built in, but I've never heard mine under normal use. As for games, a surprising number of them run under Wine, so Bootcamp may not even be necessary (do a google search on Wine with the name of the game you're interested in). About a year ago, I dual-booted my MacBook Pro via Bootcamp just to run games. I don't do that any more (not even with the iMac).
The funny thing is, for programming in C++, I still use iTerm to ssh into a Ubuntu box (*nix servers are good for getting the most juice out of hardware), though I do intend to port my code to OS X once I get it in production. FYI, I also have an old dual core Mac mini that still runs fine.
For your budget and if gaming is not on the top of your list, I would recommend an iMac 21.5", which is not a bad deal for an i3 running OS X. However, if gaming is your primary need, you should go for a Windows 7 box (NGen +1 : as far as Windows boxes go, HP is a safe bet).
(FYI, I currently have a MacBook Pro, an iMac, a Mac Mini, an XP box, and two HP servers running Ubuntu, and I do programming more than anything else on my machines)
The underlying OS is essentially FreeBSD so that means underneath the ease-of-use and polish of OS X, you have a Unix-variant with all the useful programs and tools that come with it. There is a fan built in, but I've never heard mine under normal use. As for games, a surprising number of them run under Wine, so Bootcamp may not even be necessary (do a google search on Wine with the name of the game you're interested in). About a year ago, I dual-booted my MacBook Pro via Bootcamp just to run games. I don't do that any more (not even with the iMac).
The funny thing is, for programming in C++, I still use iTerm to ssh into a Ubuntu box (*nix servers are good for getting the most juice out of hardware), though I do intend to port my code to OS X once I get it in production. FYI, I also have an old dual core Mac mini that still runs fine.
For your budget and if gaming is not on the top of your list, I would recommend an iMac 21.5", which is not a bad deal for an i3 running OS X. However, if gaming is your primary need, you should go for a Windows 7 box (NGen +1 : as far as Windows boxes go, HP is a safe bet).
(FYI, I currently have a MacBook Pro, an iMac, a Mac Mini, an XP box, and two HP servers running Ubuntu, and I do programming more than anything else on my machines)
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Is the iMac capable of running said games under OS X (not Wine or Bootcamp)? Because besides that, it does sound like the way to go - I'll just have to be saving money. Finally, about what you said about FreeBSD, does that mean that it can simply execute OS X AND Linux executables? That would be epic, since I could easily port and install everything I have on my trusty Ubuntu right now.
| I've heard that you can buy the components for a Mac(book) individually, to assemble it yourself in the end. It would safe a lot of money, is that rumor true? |
Although that is a very reasonable alternative, I'd rather use the iMac. I still have some questions about it, though, which I posted above.