Complacency

[zapshe]

Forgive my slowness

No worries, take your time.

The big case everyone knows is where a religious bakery was prosecuted for refusal to serve a gay marriage.

I did hear about that one. You could imagine someone's religion tells them they can't serve black people or women, it simply wouldn't be acceptable.

Could you imagine if a bigger company, not some small business, refused service to an entire demographic of people citing its religion?

In the bakery case, the scotus overruled and favored the bakery

Which is a religious victory I may not necessary agree with. There is some 1st amendment claim to be made for "decorating" the cake.

However, again, as a company you should be held to higher standards. Otherwise, a company could say they can't draw a black man getting married on a cake because they're racist, and that would be a valid legal argument - "You can't force me to express something I don't believe".

I still don't see where religious freedoms are being eroded. These people chose to do these jobs. They are simply being asked to do their job.

Creative LLC v. Elenis

This one I can kind-of agree with, as you can't force someone to express themselves in a way they don't agree. Assuming the designer is a single person (freelancer) and not a company specifically.

A freelancer should have a lot more freedom than a company. However, we should still acknowledge that being able to do the job MAY BE separate from a true expression of self. People OFTEN say/do things they do not personally agree with for their job, and they cannot claim some special exception.


We cannot have infinite accommodation for religious views, or else we will need to accommodate EVERYTHING a person claims to be a religious view. This would not just be Christians, but every single religion - otherwise this is no longer religious freedom, it's Christian freedom (which is what Trump argues for).

A company/service simply cannot be given the same freedoms an individual possesses. An individual can say "I don't let gays into my house", but we can't have a company say "My religion says I can only offer slow internet speeds to gay couples". You can argue against this viewpoint, but you will be wrong.


Of course, however, this WAS another religious win. Religion keeps winning here, despite valid (and perhaps even MORE valid) arguments for the opposite side.

A big chunk of america has had no tolerance since 911

If you had to guess the political affiliation of this "big chunk of america"...


Sorry, I really don't see any religious attack here or degradation of rights. Someone getting sued is just what happens, and is not a religion-specific issue. The courts ultimately upheld the religious views.

[Duthomhas]

My interest in this thread is minimal, actually, because I don’t want to take the time.

But my condolences to you, jonnin. May your family recover quickly.

[jonnin]

Thanks Duthomhas.
Ive lost most of my interest as well. About all we have accomplished is that I dislike all politicians even more than when we started. And that is an accomplishment... it was pretty low to begin with. Zapshe makes a lot of good points. Im gonna go watch designated survivor or something and dream.

[zapshe]

About all we have accomplished is that I dislike all politicians even more than when we started

My only hope is to convey that you should not hate all politicians equally.

My interest in this thread is minimal, actually, because I don’t want to take the time.

Debating definitely isn't for everyone, and certainly not every debate topic. I try to be more.. understanding? Less mean? When it comes to debates containing religious themes as I do want to respect you, Duthomhas, and others here.

But I know this is something I definitely fail at.


Hope your family recovers as well, jonnin.