UFOs
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Has anyone ever seen one? I've seen two. I'm not talking about "flying saucers" or ALEINS or whatever else; I literally mean objects that are unidentified and also happen to be in flight.
The two I've seen were both lights in the sky. One of them was above my house and it was flying around in a kind of spiral pattern, rising and falling. The other I saw a couple of days ago. It was similar, a light moving around in a weird pattern, but this one got brighter for a few hundred milliseconds and then resumed it's erratic flight.
I don't know what they were and I'm not going to say it's aliens (I think if they've found us, they would have made contact by now. Before anyone says anything about watching us, they've had since at least 1947 to do that) but it's still interesting.
The two I've seen were both lights in the sky. One of them was above my house and it was flying around in a kind of spiral pattern, rising and falling. The other I saw a couple of days ago. It was similar, a light moving around in a weird pattern, but this one got brighter for a few hundred milliseconds and then resumed it's erratic flight.
I don't know what they were and I'm not going to say it's aliens (I think if they've found us, they would have made contact by now. Before anyone says anything about watching us, they've had since at least 1947 to do that) but it's still interesting.
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No, I haven't seen any.
I disagree about how you say that they would have made contact. If they are aliens, maybe they have some sort of non-interference law.
Just my opinion.
I disagree about how you say that they would have made contact. If they are aliens, maybe they have some sort of non-interference law.
Just my opinion.
I don't see why. If you look at how humans have moved from constant war to relative peace (there hasn't been a war between major powers since the end of the Second World War in 1945, some 65 years ago) then it follows logically that aliens would also be peaceful beings. I can't cite this, but I read that the chance of us being within 5,000 years of aliens technologically is near-enough 0. as the human race has made great strides towards unification (something which I think would be of immense importance and benefit to all of us) (think of the UN and EU (I won't mention NATO because NATO was set-up specifically to pressure the USSR and is therefore not a peaceful organisation)) so too would aliens. So I think that they'd be pretty interested in finding humans.
You can also look at the effort that we have gone to in our Search for Extra-Terrestrial Intelligence (SETI). Now, think about it. If we, being only 200,000 years old (and having less than 2000 years of properly recorded history (the bible loses credibility due to it's insistence on a man's ability to spawn a woman from his ribs and then create a race with nearly 7 billion members by themselves; not mentioning the story of Noah (further incest, because IIRC Noah's family were the only humans to survive))), have already gone to those lengths to find extra-terrestrial life. So surely aliens, being at least 5,000 years more advanced than us, would have gone to even greater lengths?
You can also look at the effort that we have gone to in our Search for Extra-Terrestrial Intelligence (SETI). Now, think about it. If we, being only 200,000 years old (and having less than 2000 years of properly recorded history (the bible loses credibility due to it's insistence on a man's ability to spawn a woman from his ribs and then create a race with nearly 7 billion members by themselves; not mentioning the story of Noah (further incest, because IIRC Noah's family were the only humans to survive))), have already gone to those lengths to find extra-terrestrial life. So surely aliens, being at least 5,000 years more advanced than us, would have gone to even greater lengths?
What? Where have you been? The world is hardly at peace -- very far from it, even.
Right now at this very moment, whenever you read this, there are people in many countries all over the globe being brutalized, raped, and murdered. The UN council constantly has petitions put before it to leagalize human slavery, sale, forced prostitution, and murder. (The only reason such things haven't become law are because of a few moral individuals and member nations that continually reject them.)
While many of us in the west assume relative peace and prosperity, the world remains a very Nietzsche-ian society.
I don't think Klaatu would bother with us just yet.
Right now at this very moment, whenever you read this, there are people in many countries all over the globe being brutalized, raped, and murdered. The UN council constantly has petitions put before it to leagalize human slavery, sale, forced prostitution, and murder. (The only reason such things haven't become law are because of a few moral individuals and member nations that continually reject them.)
While many of us in the west assume relative peace and prosperity, the world remains a very Nietzsche-ian society.
I don't think Klaatu would bother with us just yet.
| having less than 2000 years of properly recorded history |
I said relative peace. Again, there have been no wars between major powers in 65 years. Whatever backwards LEDCs are doing does not reflect on the human race as a whole. But that's not to suggest that we ought to abandon those members of our race that live in such situations. Being dealt a bad hand does not make one evil. As I (think I) said before, we should be moving towards unity and I think that we are, which is good. When LEDCs no longer exist it will be a great day for the human race. There will always be misguided, perhaps even "evil" individuals who want to exploit others in a way that most of us find unacceptable (although we hypocritically find other kinds of exploitation perfectly acceptable). What can we do with them? Well, what do you think prisons are for? The existence of a few "bad apples" doesn't reflect on the human race as a whole. Every species has them. What separates us in this respect is that whereas dogs, for example, would simply reject such specimens, we can throw them in prison and hope that the term "correctional facility" isn't a complete misnomer.
But I don't want to start a politics/religion argument because they (almost) invariably end in flamewars. Can we get back to UFOs and aliens?
Edit:
Do we? 8000 years of full history? Ok, I stand corrected.
But I don't want to start a politics/religion argument because they (almost) invariably end in flamewars. Can we get back to UFOs and aliens?
Edit:
| Bazzy wrote: |
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| We have 8000 years of properly recorded history. |
Do we? 8000 years of full history? Ok, I stand corrected.
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| But I don't want to start a politics/religion argument because they invariably end in flamewars. Can we get back to UFOs and aliens? |
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e0/BaptismOfChristByAertDeGelder_Fitzwilliam_Cambridge.jpg
Just imagine the panic that would in sue if one day it was announced that there was alien life. It is likely that there would be riots, looting, etc...
I think aliens would notice our volatility and would wait until the human race matured enough to be ready for contact.
I think aliens would notice our volatility and would wait until the human race matured enough to be ready for contact.
| If they are aliens, maybe they have some sort of non-interference law. |
I could imagine that. Should they have made contact with others before, it may have turned out badly (which I could imagine is what would happen if they contacted us) and thus this law was made.
Personally, I wonder if we are being to narrow-minded about the way "aliens" would look, act etc.
We automatically assume that they are human-like, and that they are visible to what an average human's eye can see...
Just putting it out there...
We automatically assume that they are human-like, and that they are visible to what an average human's eye can see...
Just putting it out there...
| and that they are visible to what an average human's eye can see |
| Well, I guess they could be microscopic, but that's not very interesting. |
I think it would be very interesting to have an intelligent life-form at the microscopic scale. I mean does intelligent brain could even exist at that small level?
| I mean does intelligent brain could even exist at that small level? |
That would depend on what amount of intelligence is expected by that microscopic brain - Doing complex math or e.g. differentiating between a square and a circle to search for food.
The latter exists, probably more than that.
closed account (z05DSL3A)
| It is of course well known that careless talk costs lives, but the full scale of the problem is not always appreciated. For instance, at the very moment that Arthur said, 'I seem to be having tremendous difficulty with my lifestyle,' a freak wormhole opened up in the fabric of the space-time continuum and carried his words far far back in time across almost infinite reaches of space to a distant galaxy where strange and warlike beings were poised on the brink of a frightful interstellar battle. The two opposing leaders were meeting for the last time. A dreadful silence fell across the conference table as the commander of the Vl'hurgs, resplendent in his black jewelled battle shorts, gazed levelly at the G'Gugvuntt leader squatting opposite him in a cloud of green sweet-smelling steam, and, with a million sleek and horribly beweaponed star cruisers poised to unleash electric death at his single word of command, challenged the vile creature to take back what it had said about his mother. The creature stirred in his sickly broiling vapour, and at that very moment the words, 'I seem to be having tremendous difficulty with my lifestyle' drifted across the conference table. Unfortunately, in the Vl'hurg tongue this was the most dreadful insult imaginable, and there was nothing for it but to wage terrible war for centuries. Eventually, of course, after their galaxy had been decimated over a few thousand years, it was realised that the whole thing had been a ghastly mistake, and so the two opposing battle fleets settled their few remaining differences in order to launch a joint attack on our own galaxy---now positively identified as the source of the offending remark. For thousands more years the mighty ships tore across the empty wastes of space and finally dived screaming on to the first planet they came across---which happened to be Earth---where due to a terrible miscalculation of scale the entire battle fleet was accidentally swallowed by a small dog. Those who study the complex interplay of cause and effect in the history of the universe say that this sort of thing is going on all the time, but that we are powerless to prevent it. 'It's just life,' they say. |
--- Douglas Adams, The Hitch-Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy, Chapter 31.
@helios,
While I'm sure the aliens don't care if you find them interesting or not, I have to agree. It wouldn't be as cool.
Who assumed that? Based on our own planet, with the various other species of primate being basically the only animals I can think of that look anything like us (except for bears when they stand up), it's incredibly unlikely that aliens would look anything like us. Having said that, why would they be invisible to us? Even if they don't reflect electromagnetic radiation, we could still see them. They'd just be completely black (even blacker than on your CRT monitor). If they were made from an invisible gas, like carbon monoxide, then no, we wouldn't be able to see them (although we could see their shadows); but then they'd have to devote a considerable amount of their energy to staying in one place and likely wouldn't have time for space exploration.
While I'm sure the aliens don't care if you find them interesting or not, I have to agree. It wouldn't be as cool.
| daveD wrote: |
|---|
| Personally, I wonder if we are being to narrow-minded about the way "aliens" would look, act etc. We automatically assume that they are human-like, and that they are visible to what an average human's eye can see... |
Who assumed that? Based on our own planet, with the various other species of primate being basically the only animals I can think of that look anything like us (except for bears when they stand up), it's incredibly unlikely that aliens would look anything like us. Having said that, why would they be invisible to us? Even if they don't reflect electromagnetic radiation, we could still see them. They'd just be completely black (even blacker than on your CRT monitor). If they were made from an invisible gas, like carbon monoxide, then no, we wouldn't be able to see them (although we could see their shadows); but then they'd have to devote a considerable amount of their energy to staying in one place and likely wouldn't have time for space exploration.
closed account (z05DSL3A)
| chrisname wrote: |
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| Even if they don't reflect electromagnetic radiation, we could still see them. They'd just be completely black |
| they'd have to devote a considerable amount of their energy to staying in one place and likely wouldn't have time for space exploration. |
In all seriousness, though, life probably can't exist in non-solid state. Fluids tend too easily to very high entropy, which is the worst thing that can happen to life. Life is a process, and processes can't occur in a balanced system.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entropy_and_life
EDIT: And besides, how could a hypothetical sentient fluid change its own pressure? It wouldn't have any support structures.
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@Grey Wolf,
I suppose, but they must be visible in some spectrum, even if you need sound or smell to detect them. Otherwise they couldn't communicate, they couldn't mate and their species would fail. So we could probably use Geiger-Müller tubes attached to a pair of virtual reality glasses or something in case they reflected ionising radiation.
@helios,
What I was getting at is that gases tend to spread out. It would be kind of hard to stay in-place if you're made of gas, you'd have to have a container. But then, the container would be visible (unless you made that out of gas, but then you're not solving the problem, but rather moving it somewhere else).
I've never really understood entropy. I understand that entropy cannot into decrease and that it has something to do with energy that isn't doing anything, but I don't know more than that.
I suppose, but they must be visible in some spectrum, even if you need sound or smell to detect them. Otherwise they couldn't communicate, they couldn't mate and their species would fail. So we could probably use Geiger-Müller tubes attached to a pair of virtual reality glasses or something in case they reflected ionising radiation.
@helios,
What I was getting at is that gases tend to spread out. It would be kind of hard to stay in-place if you're made of gas, you'd have to have a container. But then, the container would be visible (unless you made that out of gas, but then you're not solving the problem, but rather moving it somewhere else).
I've never really understood entropy. I understand that entropy cannot into decrease and that it has something to do with energy that isn't doing anything, but I don't know more than that.
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closed account (z05DSL3A)
| but they must be visible in some spectrum, |
yeh, the likeley hood of them being composed of a substances that have no reflection, full transmittance and a refraction index that is variable, to match its surroundings, is pretty much impossible. So you can safely say that any other life in the universe is not invisible.
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