Game Making?
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I've always been kinda attracted to the world of making games. Now that i'm a bit older, i don't like games as much as i did back 4 or 5 years ago, but still i play a bit from time to time, mostly because computer engineering is absorbing 99% of my time.
I've tried a couple of times to do games, but i failed, not because of my skill as a programmer, but because of external factors . My question is : Why is it so hard to make a decent game? (...without any money, of course). Have you ever had any experience on this? .
I've tried a couple of times to do games, but i failed, not because of my skill as a programmer, but because of external factors . My question is : Why is it so hard to make a decent game? (...without any money, of course). Have you ever had any experience on this? .
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The devil is in the details.
You need good graphics, which means you have to be an artist and have the right tools to create computer art.
You need good sound, which means you have to be a composer and musician.
You need good game physics, which means you have to be well versed in math, particularly matrix manipulations.
If you try to short any of these, you'll find the game to be sub-par.
You need good graphics, which means you have to be an artist and have the right tools to create computer art.
You need good sound, which means you have to be a composer and musician.
You need good game physics, which means you have to be well versed in math, particularly matrix manipulations.
If you try to short any of these, you'll find the game to be sub-par.
I would say that time is the limiting factor. It encompasses everything mentioned above. You can do anything, provided that you can invest enough time.
The problem I've seen the most is that the free-game-developer world has never been taken seriously. I'm tired of seeing 13-year-old kids posting threads such as "Looking for CODERS and ARTISTS to create an MMORPG called [insert name here]", "[Profit cut] XNA Project", " Looking for team to make FPS". That's not even serious. It depresses me.
The trouble is that as soon as someone learns the first thing about programming, they want to make a game,
and, well, programming games is arguably one of the most difficult programming projects to tackle.
and, well, programming games is arguably one of the most difficult programming projects to tackle.
| The trouble is that as soon as someone learns the first thing about programming, they want to make a game, and, well, programming games is arguably one of the most difficult programming projects to tackle. |
Agreed.
| The problem I've seen the most is that the free-game-developer world has never been taken seriously. I'm tired of seeing 13-year-old kids posting threads such as "Looking for CODERS and ARTISTS to create an MMORPG called [insert name here]", "[Profit cut] XNA Project", " Looking for team to make FPS". That's not even serious. It depresses me. |
I second this. I have seen many people post ridiculous ideas, stories and concepts that were written in a heartbeat and considered done. I think that Game Maker (the tool many of you know) is the causer of all this chaos. Many people don't even bother to think about programming when thinking about making games. [insert sadface here]
I'm developed a game, on my own. The art is shotty, the story is great (of course as the writer I'm prone to think it was :P...I've been published in a local lit mag a few times.) As for the music and physics..well 10 years of playing violin as well as 4 playing several other instruments doesn't count for nothing... not the greatest, buuut certainly not the worst. Physics isn't much of a problem either. I'm a reasonably bright young man and I have access to my dad's college textbooks.
Do i expect it to go anywhere publicly? oh not if my life depended on it...that's why it's just me satisfying my own desire to fulfill a child hood dream.
Do i expect it to go anywhere publicly? oh not if my life depended on it...that's why it's just me satisfying my own desire to fulfill a child hood dream.
I despise game maker!! It is the root of all evil!!!! It's taken me nearly 2.5 years to develop what I have from scratch. While I agree that graphics, sound, and physics are all challenging, the biggest road block is expectations... Not every game needs to be the next cutting edge 3d game to sell and I think most people forget this. I personally could care less about good physics and graphics. I want content and excellent dynamics.
I have no interest at all in my engine rivaling AAA games on XBOX. Some of the most successful games have crappy graphics and virtually no physics engine. What makes them sell is the excellent game dynamics, addictive game play and interesting story (in some cases).
Game programming is considered the elite in the programming world... but my experience has taught me that it really isn't that difficult. For the average game, an out of the box physics engine will do just fine and simple mixed sounds will do. My engine for example has virtually no physics aside from some environmental variables, collision detection etc... because it isn't necessary in an RPG.
Also, I agree that time is a huge factor... Ultimately I think game projects fail because the expectations are not realistic and not enough time is spent on planning. It's all about setting expectations and finding the right tools to meet those expectations. Look for tools that speed up development and fill in skill gaps you may have. If you suck at art, look for tools that may provide environmental objects such as Speed Tree for Ogre3d, etc...
I have no interest at all in my engine rivaling AAA games on XBOX. Some of the most successful games have crappy graphics and virtually no physics engine. What makes them sell is the excellent game dynamics, addictive game play and interesting story (in some cases).
Game programming is considered the elite in the programming world... but my experience has taught me that it really isn't that difficult. For the average game, an out of the box physics engine will do just fine and simple mixed sounds will do. My engine for example has virtually no physics aside from some environmental variables, collision detection etc... because it isn't necessary in an RPG.
Also, I agree that time is a huge factor... Ultimately I think game projects fail because the expectations are not realistic and not enough time is spent on planning. It's all about setting expectations and finding the right tools to meet those expectations. Look for tools that speed up development and fill in skill gaps you may have. If you suck at art, look for tools that may provide environmental objects such as Speed Tree for Ogre3d, etc...
I obviously don't think that Game Maker is horrible, seeing that I started off with it. It's amazing for basic prototyping, but I'd prefer not to make a whole game using it. WAY too slow and difficult to use compared to C++. But I agree, as others have mentioned, that Game Maker allows newbies to assume that all creation of games is easy. I'm an active member of the YoYoGames forum, and I see too many team requests. The only teamed I joined there was for a project I'm still working on, and even then I convinced everyone to move to C++. There are just different standards for C++ games and Game Maker games. Too many inexperienced people can make a Game Maker game.
Thing is, Game Maker is meant to be used as a learning tool. So don't go bashing it for doing what it's supposed to do. The leap from Game Maker's native scripted language to C++ wasn't all to difficult, and I can't imagine what it would've been like if I just started using C++ without any background experience with programming of any kind.
http://gmc.yoyogames.com/index.php?showforum=5
There's a side of Game Maker than many of you probably haven't seen before. It's good to know that not all Game Maker users are complete idiots, at least in my opinion.
Creating games in C++ isn't all to difficult given the right tools. But it depends if you're trying to reinvent the wheel like so many have done. It's a good learning experience, but at this point I'm just trying to get resource management, processing stages and rendering stacks, and input handling to be as easy to use as possible, which is the major area for slip-ups in making a game. Projects of different sizes require different bases of different complexities. If you want to duct-tape together a basic, limited platformer, you don't really need much other than some way to handle collisions. Something the size of Fable, you'll need a lot more.
Thing is, Game Maker is meant to be used as a learning tool. So don't go bashing it for doing what it's supposed to do. The leap from Game Maker's native scripted language to C++ wasn't all to difficult, and I can't imagine what it would've been like if I just started using C++ without any background experience with programming of any kind.
http://gmc.yoyogames.com/index.php?showforum=5
There's a side of Game Maker than many of you probably haven't seen before. It's good to know that not all Game Maker users are complete idiots, at least in my opinion.
Creating games in C++ isn't all to difficult given the right tools. But it depends if you're trying to reinvent the wheel like so many have done. It's a good learning experience, but at this point I'm just trying to get resource management, processing stages and rendering stacks, and input handling to be as easy to use as possible, which is the major area for slip-ups in making a game. Projects of different sizes require different bases of different complexities. If you want to duct-tape together a basic, limited platformer, you don't really need much other than some way to handle collisions. Something the size of Fable, you'll need a lot more.
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I hate the way most people seem to think super realistic graphics are the most important thing in a game. How superficial is that? Physics aren't the most important thing either, but I do like a game to have an interesting physics engine (part of what makes Half Life 2 such a great game was the physics engine and the little puzzles you had to beat, like putting buoyant drums of air under a bridge to make a ramp, or pushing a washing machine into a cart to make another ramp). The main things that made Half Life 2 so good for me, however, was the way levels slot together. There were no cutscenes; you learned the story by talking to peopel, and there was no intermission between levels which made the story very fluid. Admittedly you had to wait for the next part of the map to load, but you were still in the game while that was happening so the story didn't have time to leave you.
Half Life 2 is one of the best games I've ever played. I also think it's unfortunate that Valve is one of few companies that actually still make good games. HL2 Episode 3 will have exactly the same graphics that HL2 had and that's the way I want it.
Edit: I also know someone who makes game maker games. He's not an idiot like some other people I've come across who use it.
Half Life 2 is one of the best games I've ever played. I also think it's unfortunate that Valve is one of few companies that actually still make good games. HL2 Episode 3 will have exactly the same graphics that HL2 had and that's the way I want it.
Edit: I also know someone who makes game maker games. He's not an idiot like some other people I've come across who use it.
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| I hate the way most people seem to think super realistic graphics are the most important thing in a game. |
Depends on if you get custom maps. At the very least, CryEngine has a lot of potential in many areas, only the water physics are lacking. I once punched a huge stack of propane tanks held together by a metal frame into the water, it floated on top like it had a density of 0.00001g/cm^3.
| jsmith wrote: |
|---|
You need good graphics, which means you have to be an artist and have the right tools to create computer art. You need good sound, which means you have to be a composer and musician. You need good game physics, which means you have to be well versed in math, particularly matrix manipulations. |
I have to stop right here and disagree.
Graphics don't make the game, sound doesn't make the game - and physics are definetly, seriously, absolutely - not the cause of a bad game.
The game makes the game, consider: Pong.
Of course, other games also make the game. Mario was a good game in its time, hell, it still is, but if they tried to market another 8-bit game they'd probably do terribly with most of their targeted audience.
That's because most people are shallow and stupid. They don't want games that make them think, they want games that give them big guns and pools of ammo and health all over the place so they can run around spraying bullets all over the place, while being elitist <expletive>s and saying anyone who can't use <insert weapon here> is a retard.
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