I am the lord of the wind...

[chrisname]

I have an idea; rather than answer any questions I'll just post more bullshit quotes!

Yes, this is starting to annoy me.

[iw0XoG1T]

m4ster r0sh are you a troll? Because I think you are having some fun at the expense of others.

[m4ster r0shi]

chrisname wrote:

I have an idea; rather than answer any questions I'll just post more bullshit quotes!

Relax! I've been writing that one since I saw chwsks's post. I only saw the other replies when I posted it. I'm currently writing something to reply to something Disch said. I'll move on to helios after that.

chwsks wrote:

m4ster r0sh are you a troll?

No, I am not. I just like telling the truth, no matter whether you like it or not.

chwsks wrote:

Because I think you are having some fun at the expense of others.

Does it seem like I'm having fun here?... -.-

[iw0XoG1T]

m4ster r0shi wrote:

Does it seem like I'm having fun here?... -.-

Yes, that is exactly what it seems like.

[chrisname]

Sigh. I'm leaving this thread.

[m4ster r0shi]

Now, before replying to Disch, I'd like to say this. If you guys find this annoying I'll just stop here. When I created this topic I wanted it to be something where anyone can freely post his beliefs without being judged. I'm not a troll, and neither do I want to be seen as one. But if you find my beliefs irritating, I promise to just stop posting here and never, ever reopen the thread. When I ascend, I'll come find each one of you and teach you how to do it personally.

I tell you, you have the ability to know everything there is to know

Disch wrote:

Then how come there's so much I don't know?

You simply haven't yet activated the faculty of your brain that will enable you to access that knowledge.

In order to return to a state of unlimitedness, to experience joy and the freedom of being, you must once again become that which holds you together. And the only way to become that - since you are encumbered with a body - is to fully activate your seventh seal, pituitary, so that your brain can receive the unlimited thoughts that lie just beyond social consciousness.

So how do you get this wonderful little gland to awaken the dormant portions of your brain through its hormone flow? Simply through desire. To become a Christ is to desire to know the Father and become the likeness of God. It is the desire to allow all thought to become the reality of self. It is the desire to love in every moment all that you have become.

Why is it important to love the totality of what you are? When you do, you immediately transcend social consciousness. Then you rise above acceptance. You transcend judgment. You go beyond the illusion of time. Then you live only for the fulfillment of self. You listen only to the voice within. You follow only the path of joy. And on that path lies the knowingness of all that is.

The more you desire unlimitedness and the more you embrace and feel the thoughts that come forth, the more the pituitary secretes its hormone and the wider its mouth becomes. The more you desire to love what you are and to live in knowingness, the more your brain is opened up by the God that surrounds your being, greater and greater and greater. Then you become more than your body. You become that which holds you together.

Soon the whole of the pituitary system is in full bloom and the whole of your brain is activated. Then all that the pituitary has had within its spiritual embodiment is given to the full mind, and the mind can never go back to a limited state. Once the flower begins to open, it never closes again; it is open for all times.

When your pituitary is in full bloom, you cease to die; you cease to grow old. Whatever you tell your body to do, it will do. You can tell the body to quicken its vibratory frequency and it will elevate itself into another dimension. You can even resurrect your body from the dead.That is how powerful your brain is.

[Disch]

m4ster r0shi wrote:

If you guys find this annoying I'll just stop here.

I'm not annoyed, just a little flabergasted. I tend to lose sight of my impartiality in the face of this kind of thing, and I get extremely judgemental an irrational. I apologize for that, but sometimes I really can't help it.

I see this kind of thing as a bane to humanity. Instead of getting people to better themselves and society through practical and achievable means, it instead drives them into some faux-spiritual, warm and fuzzy "anything is possible if you just believe" mentality that makes them lose grip on reality. It's can actually be quite dangerous.

I see this as one of those such cases. It sounds to me like you're 2 or 3 steps from downing the poisoned kool-aid. After all, wouldn't ridding yourself of your limited human shell make it easier to transcend your spirituality and awaken the Christ/God within you? And even if you really die, couldn't you just resurrect yourself (since apparently that is possible according to this guy)?

When I ascend, I'll come find each one of you and teach you how to do it personally.

I find such sentiment condescending. It's like those people who say "I'll pray for you".

But I guess considering how rude and insulting I'm probably being I deserve far worse than what you perceived as a kind gesture.


Anyway I really should step out of this thread, as this should be a discussion for cooler heads than mine, and I don't really want to cause it to deteriorate further. The fact of the matter is, you've stayed cool, collected, and respectful the entire thread and I've been cross at every turn. Your behavior is very commendable, and I don't feel like I belong in the same arena.

So again, I apologize for my harsh words and judgemental tone. Hopefully I'll have the self control to stay out of this thread in the future. Or if I do post, I hope to have the ability to remain calm and civil.

[DSvMDjzh]

I just like telling the truth, no matter whether you like it or not.

I respect peoples rights to have their own beliefs, however you make it seem as though your thoughts are correct for everyone. Don't misconstrue truth with your beliefs.

But if you find my beliefs irritating

I don't find your beliefs irritating, I think it is your self righteousness that is bothering people. It takes a group of very tolerant, open minded, and non-accusatory people to have intelligent debates on religion. I don't think you're going to find that here.

Just my opinion

- Josh

[AngelHoof]

Each to their own. I'm an atheist, and as long as "believers" don't start rubbin' it in my face I don't mind, and I don't mind listening to it as long as it remains an intellectual and (atleast) partly factual monologue.

I'm not very intellectual nor spiritual myself, but I'd like for this... eh, discussion(?), to continue.

[Seraphimsan]

There is no way to prove or disprove any spiritual religion, therefore arguing either way wrong or right as though it were fact and law is asinine, arrogant and quite frankly ignorant. I personally don't believe in a god, but I'm open to other views for the above reason.

[chrisname]

Agreed.

[Kyon]

I (as stated before many times) do not have any real religions. I do have my own look on life and believe in some Eastern philosophies (not religions). (If anyone cares, most are Buddhist philosophies (no, it's not a religion).)

Back on the discussion, now..
I have so say that I agree with AngelHoof as much as I agree with Seraphimsan; I'm an atheist and don't believe in a higher entity or fate. I really don't mind if anyone brings up a religious subject, I just expect them to be just as tolerant to my view as I am to theirs. I do not say I have the "winning way for religions", I just state that it's the way to go for me and I'm open to anything.

[m4ster r0shi]

Disch wrote:

I see this kind of thing as a bane to humanity. Instead of getting people to better themselves and society through practical and achievable means, it instead drives them into some faux-spiritual, warm and fuzzy "anything is possible if you just believe" mentality that makes them lose grip on reality. It's can actually be quite dangerous.

I assume that when you say practical and achievable means you mean by application of practical knowledge gathered from the observation->hypothesis->experiment->result->theory process.

Disch, I am all for this. Totally. I myself have been getting straight As from elementary to high school. I recently got my degree in maths (with a grade of 8/10) and I'm continuing with my master now. After that, I plan on getting another degree, maybe in physics or computer science. In fact, I would be most satisfied if I could combine studies and work for the rest of my life.

But, you see, the way of producing knowledge like this is reaching (has reached?) a limit. Brian Green (IINM) uses a great analogy to describe this fact. He sees scientific research as climbing from the bottom to the top of a mountain. He says that up to the middle of the mountain it is experimental physicists that lead the way. After that, it is theoretical physicists that take control, because of the lack of experimental data. You see, there is a level that data analysis can't be conducted, simply because analyzing the data also modifies it (observer-observed principle). It is as if I have some candies on a table and I want to count them and the only way to count them is to eat them and keep track of their number in my head. After I count them, sure, I get a number but the candies are no longer on the table, they are in my belly instead. And though I don't really complain about them being there, this has utterly destroyed my research.

So, the thing is that we have almost exhausted the data we can get. Maybe CERN will give some more, but IMO it won't make much difference. What we seek to do now is to bind ALL of that experimental data to a unified and consistent theoretical model. We have good theoretical models for subsets of the experimental data (relativity, quantum mechanics). But if we try to mix these models there arise inconsistencies. String theory is on a good way I believe. Ah, there's another one, you may have heard of it, it is called subquantum kinetics. The guy who came up with it is named Pierre La Violette. I know this because he came once and gave a speech at my university. This guy proposed the idea of something existing, that when it is condensed it is turned to energy. He calls that thing ether but he told us that he didn't want to name his theory ether theory because then most people would believe that it is about the ether from the Michelson–Morley experiment which was proved that doesn't exist. So, he pretty much told us -and I'm telling the truth here, I have no reason to lie, that's what he told us- that he can make a machine using common tools found in a common chemistry lab, that takes the energy you put in, and then uses that energy to condense the so called ether to produce more energy. He said that it spits three times the energy you put in (but this doesn't really contradict the energy preservation principle because it actually takes ether and condenses it into energy, so it doesn't create something out of nothing). He also said that he knows corporations in the USA that are able to put in the market massive amounts of home heaters whose operation is based on that principle, the very next day that the government allows it. I know, it blows your mind, but that's what he told us.

Here are some relevant links:
http://www.etheric.com/LaVioletteBooks/ether.html
http://www.etheric.com/LaViolette/Predict2.html

Furthermore, as Seraphimsan said, there is no way to prove or disprove any spiritual religion. So I really don't see anything wrong in studying physics and trying to ascend at the same time.

Disch wrote:

It sounds to me like you're 2 or 3 steps from downing the poisoned kool-aid.

LOL, Disch! Not at all. I do enjoy having a body. I do enjoy good food and drink. I do enjoy having sex with beautiful girls. I do enjoy playing games on my pc. I recently finished the terran campaign of Starcraft II, here is a spoiler for anyone interested:

#include <iostream>
#include <string>
using namespace std;

void decrypt(string & str);

int main()
{
    string spoiler("_l~~lol}+t~+lwtp9"
        "+Vp}}trly+mpnzxp~+s€xly+lrlty9");

    decrypt(spoiler);
    cout << spoiler << endl;

    cin.get();
    return 0;
}

void decrypt(string & str)
{
    for (unsigned i=0; i<str.length(); i++)
        str[i]-=11;
}

This life is a school. And in a school there are no losers, there are only quitters. And I don't plan to be one.

Disch wrote:

The fact of the matter is, you've stayed cool, collected, and respectful the entire thread and I've been cross at every turn. Your behavior is very commendable, and I don't feel like I belong in the same arena.

Aww... I think I'm starting to like this guy... Disch, thank you for acknowledging that. But, you see, there is a reason I choose to behave like this. I don't do it because I want other people to say that I am polite. I don't do it because I'm afraid that if I don't I will be banned from this forum.

Before elaborating on that reason...

herrojoshery wrote:

I respect peoples rights to have their own beliefs, however you make it seem as though your thoughts are correct for everyone. Don't misconstrue truth with your beliefs. [...] I don't find your beliefs irritating, I think it is your self righteousness that is bothering people.

Ok, I understand. Maybe the way I present it makes it seem like this. Sorry about that. From now on, when I say truth, you may interpret it as my belief.

Back to Disch...

I said it before and I'll say it again. When you die, this afternoon, tomorrow morning, and before getting a new body, you have to pass through this. It is called life review. So, what happens there? You review your life but from the point of view of other people.

So then you suffer the attack of your villainy and you feel what it feels like. You become the child that you have beaten and you feel its helpless pain. You become that which is termed the abuser and the full onslaught of tempted intoxicating fury upon that which is innocent and cannot strike back. You feel what it is to be slandered upon and your good and gracious name abused and dishonored. You will feel that because you are God.

So, you will see it, and you will feel it, and, you see, you won't be able to say anything because you will know that the hand who slapped that poor little guy's face was your hand, and the mouth that spat on that poor little guy's face was your mouth, and that poor little guy was actually you.

Having an attitude won't help me have a good life review. Being offensive won't help me have a good life review. And the thing is I can't get a new body before I pass through this. And I want a new body because I want to be able to enjoy good food and drink and have orgasms.

Now, Disch, you see, I know this will happen when I die (or ascend). I don't believe it will happen, I know it will happen. Belief is conjectural, it means that you accept that A or B or C may happen but you think A happens. Knowing is absolute. That's what will happen when I die. After all, what do you think Red Hot Chili Peppers refer to in this song:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NIW-yAL-WU

when they say:

To the moon she gave
Another good review
Turn around and look at me
It's really really you

Everything you cast into the river comes back to you. Tenfold. So, ultimately, the only reason I am being polite here is to protect me from myself in my next life review.

@helios:

Now, for the reasons I explained to Disch above, this is my answer to you (or should I say... me?...):

*m4ster r0shi covers his ears*
lalalalala I can't hear you!

@chrisname:

There, I replied to helios too. I hope you are happy now.

EDIT: misc typos

[iw0XoG1T]

m4ster r0shi I am sure you have noticed it is only the high school kids that are responding to you--anyone can troll a kid.

[Disch]

I've been able to keap a clear head for this post. Here are my counterarguments. Hopefully I've given the topic the respect it has earned.

But, you see, the way of producing knowledge like this is reaching (has reached?) a limit

This isn't true at all. It is limited only by our existing knowledge, understanding, and technology. However all 3 of those are expandable to theoretically infinite limits.

Technology grows at an exponential rate. If anything we're learning and growing faster now than we ever have before.

What were the worlds biggest mysteries back in the day are now common knowledge. And 100 years from now they'll be doing things many people now would have thought impossible.

Look at everything that's changed in just the past 20 or so years. Within our own lifetime, the internet alone has completely changed the face of the world. We've lived through and experienced a global revolution. That's huge. And that's not counting all of the other countless breakthroughs, discoveries, and inventions that have happened.

Things are constantly changing, growing. I don't see how you can say we've reached the limit... or that we're anywhere near it.

You see, there is a level that data analysis can't be conducted, simply because analyzing the data also modifies it (observer-observed principle).

That only means that's a limitation we haven't learn to overcome yet.

I'm also not sure if your candle analogy stands up. It's only a problem if the observing changes the data before the data is observed, in which case the wrong data is observed.

For example if there's a light that's always shining a yellow color, but when someone looks at it, it shines red instead... if I were to observe it, I would (falsely) think it shined red. Therefore my observations cannot be trusted.

However with your example the observations are still valid and therefore we have learned something from it. Even if the data we observed is destroyed, we come out of the experience with that much more information. That's what experimentation is all about.

String theory is on a good way I believe. Ah, there's another one, you may have heard of it, it is called subquantum kinetics.

I don't keep up with the bleeding edge of theoretical science, as it's largely academic unless you're actually the one in the field trying to apply it. So I'm not really familiar with either of these.

But it sounds a little to me like you're contradicting your own statement with this. I mean you basically just said "We are at the end of what we can learn", but then you go on to give a list of active WIP fields of theoretical science... basically illustrating all the new ways we're learning.

When you die, this afternoon, tomorrow morning, and before getting a new body, you have to pass through this. It is called life review. So, what happens there? You review your life but from the point of view of other people.

I've never experienced this. Or if I did it was moot because I have no recollection of it.

I mean obviously I've reviewed my actions and considered how other people may have viewed them, but I get the impression you're talking about something else.

I don't believe it will happen, I know it will happen. Belief is conjectural, it means that you accept that A or B or C may happen but you think A happens. Knowing is absolute. That's what will happen when I die.

We might have a semantical disagreement here, but I really think you're mistaken.

It's not possible for you to know all of this. You've never died, you've never spoken with anyone who's died, and there's no obeservable or recreatable evidence that forms the basis for this idea.

All you have is speculation and theories. An understanding based purely on speculation is the very definition of "belief". Without something to support it, beliefs can never be fact or truth. They can never really be "known".

The fact that you claim you "know" it simply means you have a strong belief, which IMO is a fault, as it unduely closes your mind to alternative ideas. You've already accepted this one arbitrary concept as the one, singular truth. And in doing so, you have completely dismissed all other schools of thought. Even though all those other schools of thought have just as much (or more) evidentiary, and social support as your own.

"You're right and they're wrong"

Another problem with that is, everyone with a strong belief "knows" they're right. Obviously since they all have contradicting knowledge, they can't all be right. So at least some of them have to be wrong. But how can you know if you're the one who's wrong or not?

Belief is conjectural, it means that you accept that A or B or C may happen but you think A happens.

You're not really describing belief, there. You're actually describing agnosticism, which is probably as far away from belief as you can get.

chwsks wrote:

m4ster r0shi I am sure you have noticed it is only the high school kids that are responding to you--anyone can troll a kid.

I'm 27 =o

[helios]

Now, for the reasons I explained to Disch above, this is my answer to you (or should I say... me?...):

*m4ster r0shi covers his ears*
lalalalala I can't hear you!

You mean this?

I know this will happen when I die (or ascend). I don't believe it will happen, I know it will happen.

I would ask how you arrived to this particular conclusion rather than any other (e.g. "when I die I will become a prime number"), but I would need to be very dense or drunk for that, and I'm not and I don't drink.
Instead, I'll just quote Socrates. Maybe if you won't listen to me, you'll listen to him (but of course I'm pessimistic and I don't really care either way).

This man, on one hand, believes that he knows something while not knowing anything. On the other hand, I - equally ignorant - do not believe that I know anything.

[filipe]

I must say I second Disch's post entirely. Nothing to add.

By the way, to answer the original post, I tend to lean towards buddhism (the philosophy, not the religion).

And I'm a big fan of Socrates.

[Kyon]

This life is a school. And in a school there are no losers, there are only quitters. And I don't plan to be one.

If there's only quitters. How come you are not one? 'nuff said.

[chrisname]

m4ster r0shi wrote:

Having an attitude won't help me have a good life review. Being offensive won't help me have a good life review.

This is what I hate about religious morality. You're not being so calm and level headed because being calm is the right thing to do, you're doing it because you want to pass into the afterlife. You don't give to charity because helping others is its own reward, you do it so that the magic wizard will grant you everlasting life.

Edit: Just to clarify, by "you" I am referring to religious people in general, not you personally.

m4ster r0shi wrote:

There, I replied to helios too. I hope you are happy now.

That wasn't my problem.

[Disch]

chrisname wrote:

This is what I hate about religious morality. You're not being so calm and level headed because being calm is the right thing to do, you're doing it because you want to pass into the afterlife.

"The right actions for the wrong reasons".

This is an interesting point. I've thought about this in the past as well. I was always a bit concerned by people that needed some kind of reward in order to convince them to do the right thing. It really raises questions about their character. Like they always have to ask "what's in it for me?". It's pretty self centered.

Not that I would necessarily throw r0shi in with that lot.