New member here
Hey Forum!
I just wanted to log in and say 'hey' as I am a new chap on the board. I am an older (just plain old actually!) fellow and became a C++ hobbyist by way of C back in the late 1980's, although it has been a good while since I did any programming in the language. In fact the last IDE I used was 'Visual C++ v4'--which dates me all by itself! I must say it was a very nice surprize to discover that Microsoft just give their stuff away for free these days with the 'Community' versions of their programming languages. Therefore I am hoping to use 'Visual Studio 2017' to reacquaint myself with the ins and outs of C++ and also learn about the new stuff that came along when the language was finally ISO standardized a few years back.
One thing I would like to know in order to start off on the right foot--could I ask if the rules of the forum do actually permit asking questions and then discussing any replies that might be made? Going from what I have seen I think that is probably okay here, but I want to make doubly sure. I tried to get back in to programming five or six years ago and joined 'Stack Overflow' in order to help with that. Sadly I did not really understand the ethos of that place and got quite a drubbing from the old hands when my way of thinking and learning did not really mesh with theirs. Not a pleasant experience!
I just wanted to log in and say 'hey' as I am a new chap on the board. I am an older (just plain old actually!) fellow and became a C++ hobbyist by way of C back in the late 1980's, although it has been a good while since I did any programming in the language. In fact the last IDE I used was 'Visual C++ v4'--which dates me all by itself! I must say it was a very nice surprize to discover that Microsoft just give their stuff away for free these days with the 'Community' versions of their programming languages. Therefore I am hoping to use 'Visual Studio 2017' to reacquaint myself with the ins and outs of C++ and also learn about the new stuff that came along when the language was finally ISO standardized a few years back.
One thing I would like to know in order to start off on the right foot--could I ask if the rules of the forum do actually permit asking questions and then discussing any replies that might be made? Going from what I have seen I think that is probably okay here, but I want to make doubly sure. I tried to get back in to programming five or six years ago and joined 'Stack Overflow' in order to help with that. Sadly I did not really understand the ethos of that place and got quite a drubbing from the old hands when my way of thinking and learning did not really mesh with theirs. Not a pleasant experience!
Welcome!
As you thought, that sort of discussion is perfectly fine here (certainly not discouraged, at least).
The only thing I'd make sure to read is http://www.cplusplus.com/forum/beginner/1/ for a quick (review I hope!) of how we like our questions. In the Lounge however, feel free to talk about whatever, of course!
As you thought, that sort of discussion is perfectly fine here (certainly not discouraged, at least).
The only thing I'd make sure to read is http://www.cplusplus.com/forum/beginner/1/ for a quick (review I hope!) of how we like our questions. In the Lounge however, feel free to talk about whatever, of course!
Many thanks firedraco!!!
The document you link is very helpful--it looks like its common sense and common courtesy to the fore around here! Good to know.
The document you link is very helpful--it looks like its common sense and common courtesy to the fore around here! Good to know.
Now I'm nervous around microsoft products like a three legged dog around his trigger happy drunk redneck owner ... but that's just me. Therefore, I use the GUI called "Code Blocks" It's a really nice one, it's free, and still active unlike DevC++ GUI. Then a the compiler MinGW.
Second, welcome! You'll find this forum to be rather quite and slow on response, but some good people here.
Second, welcome! You'll find this forum to be rather quite and slow on response, but some good people here.
@Lucian Valois
Welcome! I hope you enjoy your time here :+)
I think it might be worthwhile to look at other options for your OS and IDE. I am not saying to abandon you current set-up, rather to try other things as well. Also, you might decide that you don't like the things I suggest here, that's entirely up to you :+)
One good thing that VS has done: It is now possible to use any other compiler like g++ and clang++. One of the things that turned me away from VS was the lack of c++11 support with the MS compiler back then, while at the same time clang++ and g++ had full support. Of course now the MS compiler seems to have full support for c++11 and c++14, but gcc and clang always seem to be well ahead in support for new c++standards. Of course you may not yet be interested in the new c++17 stuff, but there you go :+) Note that there will be a new c++ standard every 3 years now.
https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/vcblog/2017/03/07/use-any-c-compiler-with-visual-studio/
@DTM256
I am nervous as a long tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs about MS full stop, so I have been using Linux exclusively for several years now. Probably not the best all round attitude to have, but there you go. I guess there are pros and cons whatever one does, people have their own preferences, and things change over time. One of the big things for me is not having to worry about the vagaries of the MS compiler or MinGW, I just install or build the latest versions of gcc and clang under Linux and I am good to go!
I used C::B for awhile, although it has some nice features but the deal breaker for me is the lack of version control; and that it doesn't do background compilation.
I also used QtCreator and KDevelop, these were OK for C++, but now I have moved to Eclipse - it seems to be much better for working with multiple languages. The really good thing about Eclipse IMO, is the use of plugins. Want to program in a particular language? Install the plugin for it. There are over 1700 plugins for Eclipse, not only for languages, but a host of other things as well.
To be honest, the move to Eclipse hasn't been without tribulations. I spent a day trying to get c++17 to work, until I discovered this:
https://wiki.eclipse.org/CDT/User/FAQ#CDT_does_not_recognize_C.2B.2B11_features
Then I had trouble with Egit, (version control using git), but I did a system update (despite it being 2 days old) and that seemed to fix the problem.
Welcome! I hope you enjoy your time here :+)
I think it might be worthwhile to look at other options for your OS and IDE. I am not saying to abandon you current set-up, rather to try other things as well. Also, you might decide that you don't like the things I suggest here, that's entirely up to you :+)
One good thing that VS has done: It is now possible to use any other compiler like g++ and clang++. One of the things that turned me away from VS was the lack of c++11 support with the MS compiler back then, while at the same time clang++ and g++ had full support. Of course now the MS compiler seems to have full support for c++11 and c++14, but gcc and clang always seem to be well ahead in support for new c++standards. Of course you may not yet be interested in the new c++17 stuff, but there you go :+) Note that there will be a new c++ standard every 3 years now.
https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/vcblog/2017/03/07/use-any-c-compiler-with-visual-studio/
@DTM256
I am nervous as a long tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs about MS full stop, so I have been using Linux exclusively for several years now. Probably not the best all round attitude to have, but there you go. I guess there are pros and cons whatever one does, people have their own preferences, and things change over time. One of the big things for me is not having to worry about the vagaries of the MS compiler or MinGW, I just install or build the latest versions of gcc and clang under Linux and I am good to go!
I used C::B for awhile, although it has some nice features but the deal breaker for me is the lack of version control; and that it doesn't do background compilation.
I also used QtCreator and KDevelop, these were OK for C++, but now I have moved to Eclipse - it seems to be much better for working with multiple languages. The really good thing about Eclipse IMO, is the use of plugins. Want to program in a particular language? Install the plugin for it. There are over 1700 plugins for Eclipse, not only for languages, but a host of other things as well.
To be honest, the move to Eclipse hasn't been without tribulations. I spent a day trying to get c++17 to work, until I discovered this:
https://wiki.eclipse.org/CDT/User/FAQ#CDT_does_not_recognize_C.2B.2B11_features
Then I had trouble with Egit, (version control using git), but I did a system update (despite it being 2 days old) and that seemed to fix the problem.
Nice,
I know if I'm going to have to test my code on linux, I don't have a cell phone, but I would want to get an android to test my code on. There is such a large learning curve it's daunting, and a price tag too. One day I'll get to it all.
Thank you for the advice.
I know if I'm going to have to test my code on linux, I don't have a cell phone, but I would want to get an android to test my code on. There is such a large learning curve it's daunting, and a price tag too. One day I'll get to it all.
Thank you for the advice.
Many thanks for all the replies and the warm welcome chaps! The links you have given me make very interesting reading indeed.
The prime reason I am using VS is because it was free and simple to get hold of! I will certainly give those other compilers and IDE's a look over however. In fact I had wondered about using 'Eclipse' before I discovered VS was now available for free. However I then learned Eclipse was written entirely in Java, which at least on my ancient PC would result in very slow performance.
While thinking about the choice of IDE's and compilers from the present day as compared to the past; I am quite sorry to find the 'Watcom' C++ compiler is no longer available. Back in the middle nineties that was considered to produce extremely fast executables and also allow programmes to be built for a very wide choice of environments--not that making an executable for OS/2 is especially useful any more! Another thing that surprised me was how Borland products seem to no longer be available. At one time they were thought of as the tool of choice for 'serious' programmers, particular their 'Turbo C++' and 'Turbo Assembler'. On that topic, in the magazines I used to read back then Borland's new 'Delphi' language was considered a very big deal indeed. Some columnists confidently predicted it was going to take over as the first choice for writing Windows programmes. Twenty years later and it seems like Delphi has also vanished without a trace!
I have only given the more recent updates to C++ a fairly brief look over, but the new features introduced in C++11 do seem very useful. Best of all in my opinion is the introduction of a C++ version of 'foreach'--that is something the language has needed for as long as I have been dabbling in it! I also appreciate the standardized {} initializers for all types of variables and structures. I think that alone will make programming much easier. Something that really caught my imagination is the new 'move' constructor and assignment operator. That seems like it may mean reference counting for class-wrapped strings and dynamic arrays is no longer necessary. As a hobbyist some of the other additions feel a bit over my head--such as lambda functions and the changes to the 'auto' keyword. However one thing I do want to achieve as I get back in to C++ programming is to properly understand templates. I could be mistaken but it seemed many of the new features were tailored to template users, so I am sure I will appreciate them more as my understanding in that area grows.
The prime reason I am using VS is because it was free and simple to get hold of! I will certainly give those other compilers and IDE's a look over however. In fact I had wondered about using 'Eclipse' before I discovered VS was now available for free. However I then learned Eclipse was written entirely in Java, which at least on my ancient PC would result in very slow performance.
While thinking about the choice of IDE's and compilers from the present day as compared to the past; I am quite sorry to find the 'Watcom' C++ compiler is no longer available. Back in the middle nineties that was considered to produce extremely fast executables and also allow programmes to be built for a very wide choice of environments--not that making an executable for OS/2 is especially useful any more! Another thing that surprised me was how Borland products seem to no longer be available. At one time they were thought of as the tool of choice for 'serious' programmers, particular their 'Turbo C++' and 'Turbo Assembler'. On that topic, in the magazines I used to read back then Borland's new 'Delphi' language was considered a very big deal indeed. Some columnists confidently predicted it was going to take over as the first choice for writing Windows programmes. Twenty years later and it seems like Delphi has also vanished without a trace!
I have only given the more recent updates to C++ a fairly brief look over, but the new features introduced in C++11 do seem very useful. Best of all in my opinion is the introduction of a C++ version of 'foreach'--that is something the language has needed for as long as I have been dabbling in it! I also appreciate the standardized {} initializers for all types of variables and structures. I think that alone will make programming much easier. Something that really caught my imagination is the new 'move' constructor and assignment operator. That seems like it may mean reference counting for class-wrapped strings and dynamic arrays is no longer necessary. As a hobbyist some of the other additions feel a bit over my head--such as lambda functions and the changes to the 'auto' keyword. However one thing I do want to achieve as I get back in to C++ programming is to properly understand templates. I could be mistaken but it seemed many of the new features were tailored to template users, so I am sure I will appreciate them more as my understanding in that area grows.
| Lucian Valois wrote: |
|---|
| However I then learned Eclipse was written entirely in Java, which at least on my ancient PC would result in very slow performance. |
Hi Lucian,
With Eclipse, the core IDE is written in Java, as are the plugins, but these all make extensive use of external tools, for example the compiler which is most likely not Java. So Eclipse may not be as slow as first thought.
Also, I am not sure on the details of Java, but I know it uses semi-compiled byte-codes. At some point these byte-codes are fully compiled for the target system, so that is where the slowness come from. But after that, would one expect it to run just as fast as any other executable?
Another thing, what do you mean by "ancient PC" ? Hopefully not the same one you ran 'Visual C++ v4' with :+) Or hopefully it does not have OS/2 ! Seriously though, if it has more than a single CPU, it might not be so bad.
I should also mention that I too am of the generation that taught myself C from K&R in the late 1980's, but have also been a big fan of UNIX/Linux since then. We had Sun Microsystems SPARC computers with SYSVR4 at work, and I had one of the first Linux OS called Yggdrasil.
Regards :+)
| Another thing, what do you mean by "ancient PC" ? Hopefully not the same one you ran 'Visual C++ v4' with :+) Or hopefully it does not have OS/2 ! Seriously though, if it has more than a single CPU, it might not be so bad. |
Would you believe I do still have that VC++ 4 machine knocking around somewhere? Sadly the opto-couplers in the PSU bit the dust and I never got around to replacing them. My current machine dates back to 2007 and at the time it was pretty swish I think--a QX9650 CPU with 4GB of RAM and an nVidia graphics accelerator. It still does all I need it to--surfing the web mostly and now a bit of programming--but I think it would struggle with the fancy newer versions of Windows.
The very first computer I bought was an Atari 400... And there was a version of 'Microsoft BASIC' which came on cartridge for that too!
| I should also mention that I too am of the generation that taught myself C from K&R in the late 1980's, but have also been a big fan of UNIX/Linux since then. We had Sun Microsystems SPARC computers with SYSVR4 at work, and I had one of the first Linux OS called Yggdrasil. |
Over the years I have given Linux some serious thought. I especially liked the look of that 'Caldera' version which came with a really nice GUI. Sadly I could never quite get in to the Unix way of doing things well enough to permanently show old Bill Gates the door. However, what I am reading about MS pushing hard to distribute all programmes through the 'Windows Store' and only allowing signed code to run makes me very uneasy. If that does happen then I will definitely be making the jump in to Linux land.
I have a second edition Kernighan and Ritchie which dates back to Summer 1988. It was one of the best 'Bathroom Readers' I ever had!
| I have a second edition Kernighan and Ritchie which dates back to Summer 1988. It was one of the best 'Bathroom Readers' I ever had! |
Ha ! We could get along quite well :+) At least K&R was a reasonably slim volume, perhaps not the same with 1000 pages of a C++ tome !
With the Linux Distros these days, one can achieve a lot by just being a user, that is, not having to use the shell very much, or do anything terribly complicated. With package management software, automatic updates, plug'n'play and so on, it's all fairly easy IMO. But it is all up to you want you want to do.
Cheers :+)
| Lucian_Valois wrote: |
|---|
| Another thing that surprised me was how Borland products seem to no longer be available. At one time they were thought of as the tool of choice for 'serious' programmers, particular their 'Turbo C++' and 'Turbo Assembler'. On that topic, in the magazines I used to read back then Borland's new 'Delphi' language was considered a very big deal indeed. Some columnists confidently predicted it was going to take over as the first choice for writing Windows programmes. Twenty years later and it seems like Delphi has also vanished without a trace! |
The good news is that the product line, or some of it, lives on under the Embarcadero brand name.
Some of the products come with a hefty price tag, but there are more affordable options for some versions.
https://www.embarcadero.com/
edit: there are a couple of free products too
https://www.embarcadero.com/free-tools
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