Do you think Fighters are born or made?

[SupremeFeast]

I have always been fascinated by this question, and every time I hear people talking about it, it usually sparks a big debate.

I am wondering what people here think about this matter, do you think a homo-sapien can be born with a fighter genetics? Or one must train to obtain these genetics? Similarly, do you think some people are born immune to knockouts? Or they have to train their neck muscles and such to reduce the chances of being knocked out? What do you think?

Please share your opinion.

[helios]

Or one must train to obtain these genetics?

Regardless of whether good boxers are born or trained, you can't "obtain genetics" through training.

do you think some people are born immune to knockouts?

There's no such thing. A knock-out is a concussion (i.e. a shaking of the brain), so necessarily there's a sufficiently violent acceleration that is capable of concussing anyone.

My personal view on nature vs. nurture as applied to proficiency in some activity is that your heritage decides how good you are at zero training, how quickly you improve with training, and how far training can get you. Obviously there are things that no human can do with any amount of training, and there are things specific people can't do with any amount of training. You can't train height, so if you can't slam dunk because you're 1.5 m, you will simply never get there no matter how much you train.
On the other hand, a gifted noob versus an average veteran will, depending on the activity, not stand a chance. Watch out for those gifted veterans, though.

[48T7M4Gy]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgenerational_epigenetic_inheritance

[48T7M4Gy]

Or they have to train their neck muscles and such to reduce the chances of being knocked out?

It might be better for fighters to train their reflexes and moves to get out of the way, perhaps even 'dance like a butterfly'.

Punches landed will more or less produce the same longer term effects however strong the neck muscles are. In fact, the more rigid the connection, the worse off the fighter's brain is.

Anyway, concussion is only a mild warning to future consequences.

The only fail-safe antidote to concussion is to either not fight or have no brain in the first place. That second trait is rarely passed on for all sorts of reasons, prize money being one of them.

[SupremeFeast]

I totally agree with you guys. The reason why I decided to post this is because few days ago at the gym, I brought in my friend who has no martial arts experience at all (absolutely none) and he agreed to roll against one of my training partners (they are both the same weight and height as well) who happens to be a brown belt in Jiu Jitsu just for fun. Even though my inexperienced friend ended up tapping in the end, he was definitely able to survive for a long period of time and almost submitted the person he was rolling with at some point.

With absolutely no training he was able to escape a triangle choke and a guillotine, it was extremely intense and entertaining to watch (a lot of people stopped to look) and my coach was extremely impressed and offered him membership discount. This experience only strengthened my belief where some people were given certain talent that other people work tirelessly to obtain.

I also often see several people in the boxing world who barely train as much as other boxers and yet they still know how to time their strikes better than their opponents and are often more accurate as well. I am certain that one's intelligence (not fight IQ, just general IQ) play a huge factor in this phenomenon.

[Uk Marine]

Interesting topic, I am a big MMA fan.

Here's what I think...

First, there's no such thing as training neck muscles to avoid getting knocked out. In order to avoid knockouts, all you need to do is see the punch coming, once you see the punch coming your brain will automatically 'brace for impact' and most of the times your nervous system will not get shut down afterwards. What causes a knock out punch is not the "power" behind it but the speed that causes a sudden rotation to your skull.

Additionally, I believe we are all born fighters, it's in our DNA, our ancestors fought to get to this stage of evolution, they didn't sit on their butts all day and play candy crush like today's generation. They fought and bled, and the link Kemort posted is highly informative. However, not all of us are at the same level of fighting, some people are better at it than others. I believe the greatest fighters were born to do this, they had the genetics since the time of their birth, with a bit of training, they became unstoppable.

Truth is, not everyone can be a fighting champion. Those who do get on top of a certain division were meant to be there, some people are born with those killer instincts (the ones you alluded to in your final paragraph) while others were not. People like to tell themselves that by training hard every day and putting the work in all the time they will become as good, but that's simply not true, as Helios stated, there's no such thing as obtaining genetics through training.

[Uk Marine]

Great topic by the way.

[SupremeFeast]

Agreed, thank you for the feedback :)

[Uk Marine]

My pleasure. :-)

[48T7M4Gy]

A bit of light reading as we move into Boxing Day.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dementia_pugilistica
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concussion

[helios]

Man, talk about coincidence. Just today I had a concussion.
It's pretty scary, I don't know how someone could suffer these repeatedly and not abandon the activity in question.

If I had to describe it, it feels like perceiving reality as though it was a dream, or like being in a fog.

[48T7M4Gy]

See a doctor.

[helios]

I already went, of course.

[48T7M4Gy]

Generally, they advise a scan of some sort MRI, CRT etc. Maybe even cardio depending on the circumstances and causes. One consolation is you get the (lame) confirmation of brain-existence, one way or the other.

BTW What does the other guy/person/girl look like?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sucker_punch
(FWIW: now called quite rightly a coward punch.)

[helios]

Since I didn't lose consciousness and only experienced momentary amnesia of the day's events prior to the concussion, the doctor only ordered an x-ray to rule out a fracture.

The other guy looks generally flat and black, with white markings in places, and facilitates expedient movement of wheeled vehicles.

[48T7M4Gy]

Regardless of whether good boxers are born or trained, you can't "obtain genetics" through training.

Perhaps we should get the terminology right, Sieneskii.

Genetics is the study of genes, genetic variation, and heredity in living organisms. I doubt whether genetics is obtained by being innate or inherited, while being successfully trained in the science is.

neo-Lamarkism and 'transgenerational epigenetic inheritance' adds another slightly controversial dimension to inheritance.

You're probably right though that no amount of training will change your personal DNA/genes. Unless of course you train near a nuclear reactor or use the wrong chemical supplements.

[helios]

I would just like to know why Sieneskil copied part of my post verbatim. I suspect they might be a spammer.

[48T7M4Gy]

Spammer or stirrer? To be clear, I didn't see that it was a quote from helios, just took it on face value.

neo-Lamarkism is interesting partly because it adds to/upsets natural selection a bit and one of its proponents, Prof Ted Steele, a bit of a academic stirrer, went to Darwin High School.

[Moonlight1]

I think one has to go through a lot of trainings to become a good fighter. DNA also matters also the health condition. Though, without the fighting practice it is not enough.