Language simular to C++ that's higher level?
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the whole point of an ide is to integrate tools. you dont need a compiler for it to function properly. you do need an engine for a car to function properly. your metaphor doesnt apply here
If your IDE can't take source code and build an executable, then your IDE isn't functioning properly.
What about sublime text? Notepad++? Sure, you can sort-of kind-of in-a-way if-you-can-call-it-that get them to run a command that eventually results in your code being compiled, but, that's not really a built-in feature and they certainly don't come with compilers.
IDE = Integrated Development Environment.
It's not really 'integrated' if you need to jump out of your IDE to compile your program, is it?
A compiler is an essential part of an IDE... otherwise its just an editor with some cool features. Nevertheless, a compiler it isn't necessarily part of the IDE. There are plenty of IDE's that have the option of not coming with compilers (notable ones include Code::Blocks and Qt Creator), but to be used properly you need to get one for them to use.
Going back to the car metaphor, you got a car chassis for somewhere and stuck an engine you found somewhere else in. You can get the car chassis separately, but you still need to find an engine from somewhere so its does more than look pretty or maybe roll around a bit.
@OP:
If you're stuck on program design, something that could be a good idea is to find a book on programming patterns or common idioms. It makes it much easier to learn how you should structure your program. If you are focussed on game creation, a commonly referred site with some good examples is http://gameprogrammingpatterns.com/contents.html
It's not really 'integrated' if you need to jump out of your IDE to compile your program, is it?
A compiler is an essential part of an IDE... otherwise its just an editor with some cool features. Nevertheless, a compiler it isn't necessarily part of the IDE. There are plenty of IDE's that have the option of not coming with compilers (notable ones include Code::Blocks and Qt Creator), but to be used properly you need to get one for them to use.
Going back to the car metaphor, you got a car chassis for somewhere and stuck an engine you found somewhere else in. You can get the car chassis separately, but you still need to find an engine from somewhere so its does more than look pretty or maybe roll around a bit.
@OP:
If you're stuck on program design, something that could be a good idea is to find a book on programming patterns or common idioms. It makes it much easier to learn how you should structure your program. If you are focussed on game creation, a commonly referred site with some good examples is http://gameprogrammingpatterns.com/contents.html
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| Duoas wrote: |
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| Sublime and Notepad++ aren't IDEs. |
What about clion. It has no knowledge of what a compiler is, nor does it have any built in features for it. It just knows the commands and appropriate parameters to use cmake with inorder to compile. Which would be no different than writing a script in Sublime to run cmake.
| It's not really 'integrated' if you need to jump out of your IDE to compile your program, is it? |
That's exactly what clion does.
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| If your IDE can't take source code and build an executable, then your IDE isn't functioning properly. |
| IDE = Integrated Development Environment. It's not really 'integrated' if you need to jump out of your IDE to compile your program, is it? |
based on that logic, my ide should be able to download and install boost, sfml, and sdl, and python, since i might need those in my program and shouldnt have to jump out of the ide to use them
| Little Bobby Tables wrote: |
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| my ide should be able to download and install boost, sfml, and sdl, and python, since i might need those in my program and shouldnt have to jump out of the ide to use them |
| ezchgg wrote: |
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| What about clion. It has no knowledge of what a compiler is, nor does it have any built in features for it. It just knows the commands and appropriate parameters to use cmake with inorder to compile. Which would be no different than writing a script in Sublime to run cmake. |
Actually, from what I've read... CLion is fully integrated with CMake. That means that it does have a build system - it just uses another program as a helper. Do you have to switch windows to a terminal and type in your 'make' command to compile, or do you have a 'build' button within CLion? As I said earlier, the IDE doesn't need to have its own compiler / build system, it just needs to have one integrated within it.
Of course, I've never actually used CLion, so I could be wrong. If you continue to disagree, maybe I should download it and have a look... though, from what is on the website as well as the various reviews of it, it seems to have an integrated build system.
| Little Bobby Tables wrote: |
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| based on that logic, my ide should be able to download and install boost, sfml, and sdl, and python, since i might need those in my program and shouldnt have to jump out of the ide to use them |
That would be nice. However... its not necessary, is it? Just helpful, and as you said, you only 'might' need them in your program. Assuming it an IDE for C++ programs, a compiler is required, but you might not need boost, sfml, sdl, python, or anything else.
| Little Bobby Tables wrote: |
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| the end goal of an IDE is not build an exe... |
So, what, you're writing code because it looks pretty?
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And this website eats another one of posts. Is there ANY reasons to have this textbox be created using javascript. No there is not, all it does is create problems when i hit submit, leave this page, get an error and then when i try and go back my text isn't there cause the textbox was created dynamically. /rant about shitty designed/coded website
Anyways:
It's not integrated, it just runs a script like sublime would to build the executable. All you do is tell CLion where CMake is. The "helper" in this case would be CLion, all it does is provide a UI for CMake getting output from CMake to highlight the files it'll be using.
You can see the single command it runs to build a project: http://i.imgur.com/tVnvIYn.png
No CLion opens a terminal for me, executes a command in the terminal and that's it (see above image). This is exactly what Sublime provides (Tools -> Build), you just have to tell it what command to run.
Yes, it's a build tool for a build tool. Pretty much common knowledge to anyone that's used cmake even once...
Anyways:
| That means that it does have a build system - it just uses another program as a helper. As I said earlier, the IDE doesn't need to have its own compiler / build system, it just needs to have one integrated within it. |
It's not integrated, it just runs a script like sublime would to build the executable. All you do is tell CLion where CMake is. The "helper" in this case would be CLion, all it does is provide a UI for CMake getting output from CMake to highlight the files it'll be using.
You can see the single command it runs to build a project: http://i.imgur.com/tVnvIYn.png
| Do you have to switch windows to a terminal and type in your 'make' command to compile, or do you have a 'build' button within CLion? |
No CLion opens a terminal for me, executes a command in the terminal and that's it (see above image). This is exactly what Sublime provides (Tools -> Build), you just have to tell it what command to run.
| You do realize CMake doesn't actually build (compile) anything. |
Yes, it's a build tool for a build tool. Pretty much common knowledge to anyone that's used cmake even once...
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Does CLion generate those CMake files for you? It seems it does (the 'generated' in the path implies that for me, but again, I could be wrong). Generally, Sublime Text requires you to create your make file yourself, and it just runs 'make' for you (or at least, in my experience). True, you can create plugins or scripts so that sublime text does that for you, too, but its not part of the editor as such.
As another example of something that seems to be like CLion's system, the old Bloodshed Dev-C++ IDE simply created a makefile for you and ran it. To have an integrated build system, you don't need something like Code::Blocks' weird custom one.
Of course, now this argument is just getting silly, and we are getting closer to simple technicalities, and I now realise that I'm arguing about something I've never actually used... I'll stop now.
Though I still assert that a fully integrated build system is required for an IDE.
As another example of something that seems to be like CLion's system, the old Bloodshed Dev-C++ IDE simply created a makefile for you and ran it. To have an integrated build system, you don't need something like Code::Blocks' weird custom one.
Of course, now this argument is just getting silly, and we are getting closer to simple technicalities, and I now realise that I'm arguing about something I've never actually used... I'll stop now.
Though I still assert that a fully integrated build system is required for an IDE.
Dev-C++ used to have a package manager; you search a library and download one of the available ones. Not sure if the Orwell version still has this feature.
| Does CLion generate those CMake files for you? It seems it does (the 'generated' in the path implies that for me, but again, I could be wrong). Generally, Sublime Text requires you to create your make file yourself, and it just runs 'make' for you (or at least, in my experience). True, you can create plugins or scripts so that sublime text does that for you, too, but its not part of the editor as such. |
No it does not generate the CMake files (the CMakeLists.txt that does all the work ; which you still have to write yourself with CLion). You would lose so much control if CLion generated the CMake script files for you. If you have a project that only uses CMake which wasn't made with CLion, you can open it with CLion and click build. Those "generated" files are the external build directories, the only things that CLion creates are the folders themselves, everything else inside them is made by CMake.
| As another example of something that seems to be like CLion's system, the old Bloodshed Dev-C++ IDE simply created a makefile for you and ran it. |
That is in no way shape or form how CLion works. CLion does not generate the CMake script files, you still have to write them yourself. There is no "add file" in CLion, you have to go into your CMakeList.txt file and add the source file path to your add_executable() macro.
| Though I still assert that a fully integrated build system is required for an IDE. |
Assert all you like, CLion is living proof that it isn't required to be integrated. Even in its early stage of development it is probably the best cross platform IDE out there right now.
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