sleep deprivation
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Most I've ever gone without sleeping was probably 36 hours. I get real tired at first, and then when I actually feel like a should be sleeping I'm wide awake.
As far as I can tell, trying to deprive yourself of sleep to that much of an extreme (not 36 hours, but more like an entire week) is a really, really, really stupid idea. Mostly because it permanently ruins aspects of your brain (in some cases personality, in others attention span).
In other words, don't try it. It's a terrible, terrible, terrible idea. The results aren't even worth it- you get to feel so tired that you start to hallucinate, and you ruin your brain.
In other words, don't try it. It's a terrible, terrible, terrible idea. The results aren't even worth it- you get to feel so tired that you start to hallucinate, and you ruin your brain.
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The longest Ive stayed up was a day, and my memory is all messed up about what happened. I remember being in places, but I don't remember walking there. It was one of the weirdest days of my life.
I've probably gone somewhere between 5 days and a week with no more then 10 hours of sleep across that time frame. Not voluntarily mind you, this is just something that having children will put you through. I would suffer through the work week and then spend my weekends sleeping\recovering while my family all adored and took turns holding the new born. Now keep in mind that this wasn't some curiosity that I was fulfilling where I could just stop if I decided that I didn't like the effects that it was having on me. When that kid cries, there is no sleeping through it, even if it isn't "your turn" to get up and feed\change\hold them. I can tell you honestly and with 100% certainty that there is absolutely zero benefit from depriving yourself of sleep and it isn't fun. Even the parts that sound like they should be fun aren't because you're just too pissed off to enjoy anything.
The audible hallucinations start around the end of day two. Not really hearing voices like a schizophrenic might, but imagine hearing your name being called in a noisy room or any place with a lot of unintelligible background noise. You're almost positive that something has been said to you and that you should respond to it, but after a while you start to ignore the sensation. The visual hallucinations never really got that bad for me. Just shadow people jumping in and out of my peripheral vision. You don't actually "see things", it's not like it is with chemical hallucinogenics. It's more like the memory of having seen something gets inserted into your mind somehow. If you get to this point then any sense of rationality you may have had is long gone and you are not a fun person to be around. I remember throwing my TV remote at one of them. Like I said, you don't actually see them and in my mind I knew that there was nothing there. But I was so pissed of at the constant distractions, in addition to not being able to concentrate to begin with, that I wanted to be wrong or at the very least I wanted to hallucinate the idea that I could hurt the little bastard.
tl;dr: Don't try it, it's not worth it.
The audible hallucinations start around the end of day two. Not really hearing voices like a schizophrenic might, but imagine hearing your name being called in a noisy room or any place with a lot of unintelligible background noise. You're almost positive that something has been said to you and that you should respond to it, but after a while you start to ignore the sensation. The visual hallucinations never really got that bad for me. Just shadow people jumping in and out of my peripheral vision. You don't actually "see things", it's not like it is with chemical hallucinogenics. It's more like the memory of having seen something gets inserted into your mind somehow. If you get to this point then any sense of rationality you may have had is long gone and you are not a fun person to be around. I remember throwing my TV remote at one of them. Like I said, you don't actually see them and in my mind I knew that there was nothing there. But I was so pissed of at the constant distractions, in addition to not being able to concentrate to begin with, that I wanted to be wrong or at the very least I wanted to hallucinate the idea that I could hurt the little bastard.
tl;dr: Don't try it, it's not worth it.
| this is just something that having children will put you through. |
I know it's necessary for our species to survive and everything.... but I just don't understand how anyone could possibly want to have kids. ;P
closed account (Gvp9LyTq)
Once after several days of insomnia I passed out in a dog-park while talking to some neighbors. I went to the doctor after that and he prescribed me a drug called Ambien which I took for a couple of weeks.
I stopped taking the Ambien when I met a gentleman that told me he has been taking Ambien at 20mgs every night for the last 10 years.
I now live by the rule if I miss one night of sleep the next night I take a shot of Nyquil--this works. My doctor hates the Nyquil and would prefer that I take the Ambien, but I have a fear of addiction so I'm sticking with the Nyquil.
Sleep is a major problem for me, when I go more than 24 hours without sleep I find I can't think I just operate on auto-pilot. I find that after 24 hours without sleep simple arithmetic is difficult, and I become very mean.
I stopped taking the Ambien when I met a gentleman that told me he has been taking Ambien at 20mgs every night for the last 10 years.
I now live by the rule if I miss one night of sleep the next night I take a shot of Nyquil--this works. My doctor hates the Nyquil and would prefer that I take the Ambien, but I have a fear of addiction so I'm sticking with the Nyquil.
Sleep is a major problem for me, when I go more than 24 hours without sleep I find I can't think I just operate on auto-pilot. I find that after 24 hours without sleep simple arithmetic is difficult, and I become very mean.
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| I now live by the rule if I miss one night of sleep the next night I take a shot of Nyquil--this works. My doctor hates the Nyquil and would prefer that I take the Ambien, but I have a fear of addiction so I'm sticking with the Nyquil. |
Uhh... the sleep aid in Nyquil is addicting/habit-forming too.
Listen to your doctor. He knows the risks of these medicines a lot better than you or some random guy you met on the street does. If he says Ambien is less dangerous, then it is.
The mere fact that you even miss entire nights of sleep at all tells me you already have a problem and/or a dependency on sleep aids. For reals -- stop self-medicating and by God listen to your freaking doctor.
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closed account (Gvp9LyTq)
| Disch wrote: |
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| Uhh... the sleep aid in Nyquil is addicting/habit-forming too. |
I believe that's pretty obvious, in fact it is the only cold medicine I know of sold in six-packs.
I been around a long-time and I can remember quite a long list of drugs that doctors have prescribed because they were none habit forming. I'll take the Nyquil risk never met a Nyquil addict yet claiming "Nyquil addiction ruined my life."
And as far as being an addict do you have any idea the number of people taking prescription mind-altering drugs everyday just go to work? It is a double digit number and that's just the ones who will admit to what they are taking.
Right now I am taking a shot Nyquil one to three-time a week (usually only once and there are weeks I go without it). Nyquil is an addition I am willing to risk. The last time I check over 50% of the people in my demographic were using a sleep-aid once a week. Not trying to defend myself--I better person than me probably doesn't need drugs to sleep--but I am not perfect.
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| I been around a long-time and I can remember quite a long list of drugs that doctors have prescribed because they were none habit forming. |
Your point?
| I'll take the Nyquil risk never met a Nyquil addict yet claiming "Nyquil addiction ruined my life." |
It's not crack or anything... but it was designed to treat cold/flu symptoms, not to be used as a chronic sleep aid. If you are habitually popping it every couple of nights it will destroy your liver.
Sure it might not "ruin your life", but it very well might take several years off it. And possibly lead to some medical complications down the road.
Furthermore -- if you need to take drugs multiple times a week to fall asleep, then I have some bad news: You probably are already addicted. So you should pick whatever drug is going to do the least damage in side-effects.
But again -- don't take my word for this... I'm just some guy. Sit down and have a talk with your doctor. Tell him/her all the things you're telling me, bring up the worry of dependency, of possible side-effects, etc. Hash it out.
Plus, there are more than 2 options here. If you don't like Ambien because of dependency issues, maybe your doctor will know of another alternative that you can try.
| And as far as being an addict do you have any idea the number of people taking prescription mind-altering drugs everyday just go to work? It is a double digit number and that's just the ones who will admit to what they are taking. |
Yes, it's ridiculous. I can totally understand being apprehensive about taking prescription drugs. And I can even agree that sometimes doctors get a little prescription-happy (Once I was given vicodin for having a tooth pulled when all I really needed was like 1 aspirin).
So yeah, I totally get why you don't want to just start taking Ambien. But downing Nyquil isn't really any better. You're just substituting one drug with another, but are relying on off-label usage (IE, using cold medicine for sleep aid instead of using a sleep aid for sleep aid).
| The last time I check over 50% of the people in my demographic were using a sleep-aid once a week. |
I'm not sure what your demographic is, but if you count alcohol (which I would, since it is a drug which helps you sleep), then I'd wager 50% is suuuuper low. I'd put it at much higher than that.
Have you considered alcohol? Maybe a few glasses of wine before you go to bed? It's not great for your liver either -- but it's certainly better than freaking Nyquil.
closed account (Gvp9LyTq)
| Disch wrote: |
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| Sit down and have a talk with your doctor. |
I have spoken with my doctor, and I can honestly say he doesn't seem as concerned as you. His dislike of Nyquil wasn't that it is habit forming. His problem is that Nyquil lets you sleep but you don't go into REM.
You realized you just recommended I use alcohol as a sleep aid and you really don't know who I am. Giving out medical advice is not something amateurs should do.
Depending on which NyQuil you get, it's possible that you're taking large amounts of acetaminophen (paracetamol) which is bad for your liver (although probably not worse than alcohol). The doctor is right in that the hypnotic in NyQuil (an antihistamine) doesn't help you sleep properly, the same as benzodiazepines, while zolpidem (Ambien) is better. Also, antihistamines are dangerous to take with other antihistamines, antidepressants, or any other drug that acts on the serotonin system. I would go with the doctor if I were you and take the zolpidem, unless your problem is staying asleep rather than falling asleep, because zolpidem has a short half-life.
The antidepressant I take, which is called mirtazapine, is better and has a 20-40 hour half-life. It also isn't psychologically addictive. It can cause withdrawal symptoms but I have abruptly halted it two or three times with no consequences besides a tendency to clench my jaw and possibly occasional headaches.
The antidepressant I take, which is called mirtazapine, is better and has a 20-40 hour half-life. It also isn't psychologically addictive. It can cause withdrawal symptoms but I have abruptly halted it two or three times with no consequences besides a tendency to clench my jaw and possibly occasional headaches.
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I've found that hard, repeated blows to the head are very helpful with falling unconscious (read: asleep). I'm also legally obligated to tell you that my medical license was revoked and I have seven counts of misdemeanor offenses with eight convictions.
| You realized you just recommended I use alcohol as a sleep aid and you really don't know who I am. Giving out medical advice is not something amateurs should do. |
The only medical advice I have given is "listen to your doctor". In fact I specifically said "don't take my word for this... I'm just some guy"
My wife was a pharmaceutical industry salesperson for half a year or so to earn her living as a student. Her job was to convince doctors to use the drug she marketed over the drug of the competition.
Doctors will often prescribe drugs they are personally financially incentivized to prescribe over other drugs. These doctors are not immoral or incompetent - they just let the financial incentives subconsciously affect their decision-making. A careful doctor would try drug A, record carefully the results, try drug B, record carefully the results, compare and evaluate which is best for the patient.
Doctors will often prescribe drugs they are personally financially incentivized to prescribe over other drugs. These doctors are not immoral or incompetent - they just let the financial incentives subconsciously affect their decision-making. A careful doctor would try drug A, record carefully the results, try drug B, record carefully the results, compare and evaluate which is best for the patient.
| Doctors will often prescribe drugs they are personally financially incentivized to prescribe over other drugs. These doctors are not immoral |
I disagree.
In fact... how is that even legal? That's completely despicable. It's essentially bribing doctors -- only peoples' lives and well-being are at stake. Indefensible.
To be clear, I have no problem with pharmeceutical companies doing a pitch to sell their drugs. I mean -- a company has to sell their product... that only makes sense.
But in what world is a "financial incentive" not a bribe? Fuck that.
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| But in what world is a "financial incentive" not a bribe? Fuck that. |
In congress they call that lobbying.
| The results aren't even worth it- you get to feel so tired that you start to hallucinate |
Yeah, this sounds about right. I went 60 full hours twice on Adderall/programming binges and shit gets weird quickly. The first time, a friend and I did it together, and each of us kept hearing the other say our name when it hadn't actually been spoken. We also began to forget where we were without constantly checking our surroundings. The second time, I did it alone. This was not fun because I pushed myself to meet a deadline in a way that was not at all worth it. This time, I had visual hallucinations as well as auditory, which I attribute to the amount of stress I was under at the time (the first time was to stay awake for an entire hackathon -- not much stress, just fun). I wouldn't say that staying awake for 36 hours isn't something to try once, but I do not recommend a full 2.5 days. Your body has no clue what the fuck is going on after 48.
| it permanently ruins aspects of your brain |
Ahh. I see. I was not aware of this.
| As far as I can tell |
Ahh. Makes sense why I was not aware that sleep deprivation permanently ruins your brain (hint: it's not true).
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2014/04/03/sleep-loss-alzheimers-disease.aspx
| Inconsistent, intermittent sleep resulted in a remarkably considerable, and irreversible, brain damage—the mice actually lost 25 percent of the neurons located in their locus coeruleus,4 a nucleus in the brainstem associated with arousal, wakefulness, and certain cognitive processes. |
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