So I have a question on joining the military?
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I am 14 years old now, and I always kind of dreamed of joining the US military. Although my bigger dream is becoming a programmer (probably game dev). The latter is about 40x stronger of a dream, so I am kind of confused about it.
I wouldn't be regular enlisted though. No, no... not for me. But, I would go in as an officer, maybe air force. I don't know much of anything about the officer part, though. What exactly does an officer do, logistics and strategize?
My second question is, what do you guys think of being in the military? Serving my country seems really noble and moral to me. Would it in anyway assist me in my other dream?
PS: I kind of half-assed this question - not really in the mood for typing thoroughly right now...
I wouldn't be regular enlisted though. No, no... not for me. But, I would go in as an officer, maybe air force. I don't know much of anything about the officer part, though. What exactly does an officer do, logistics and strategize?
My second question is, what do you guys think of being in the military? Serving my country seems really noble and moral to me. Would it in anyway assist me in my other dream?
PS: I kind of half-assed this question - not really in the mood for typing thoroughly right now...
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It would be impossible for me to say my true thoughts on this subject without insulting people who are in the military. So I'll refrain.
Instead I'll just say "I really don't think it's a good idea."
EDIT:
I think Louis CK actually illustrated it quite well and does it much more tactfully than I could:
Just like the 5-10 seconds from this (be sure to watch his physical gestures):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lL1e1QLPbsc&t=15m4s
And this is also kind of true/funny:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l70OxaHmm-I
Instead I'll just say "I really don't think it's a good idea."
EDIT:
I think Louis CK actually illustrated it quite well and does it much more tactfully than I could:
Just like the 5-10 seconds from this (be sure to watch his physical gestures):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lL1e1QLPbsc&t=15m4s
And this is also kind of true/funny:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l70OxaHmm-I
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Yeah, I don't think it is a great idea either. That is why I thought of becoming an officer, that way I don't have the chance of losing my legs or something, then being discharged, and then homeless. Because you know. Our veteran policies are great in this country, right?
(of course that last part was a bit of a joke, but still. I think it sucks that vets don't get better policies than what they have)
And then there is the air force, because I have that goal of going to flight school and getting a pilot's license - if I am successful, because flight school is like $100k nowadays. The air force makes it easier and harder at the same time.
My friend said that he is set on joining the marines (it runs through his family), and that they support college expenses?
irrelevant, but Disch, I can't help but notice you have 13007 posts. How long has this forum been around? :\
(of course that last part was a bit of a joke, but still. I think it sucks that vets don't get better policies than what they have)
And then there is the air force, because I have that goal of going to flight school and getting a pilot's license - if I am successful, because flight school is like $100k nowadays. The air force makes it easier and harder at the same time.
My friend said that he is set on joining the marines (it runs through his family), and that they support college expenses?
irrelevant, but Disch, I can't help but notice you have 13007 posts. How long has this forum been around? :\
| irrelevant, but Disch, I can't help but notice you have 13007 posts. How long has this forum been around? :\ |
| Yeah, I don't think it is a great idea either. That is why I thought of becoming an officer, that way I don't have the chance of losing my legs or something, then being discharged, and then homeless |
AFAIK you don't just "become an officer". It's a rank. You have to work your way up to it. It's not like the army is just hiring people with no military experience on as Lieutenants.
| And then there is the air force, because I have that goal of going to flight school and getting a pilot's license |
I've heard countless stories where people joined the armed forces for this very reason, only to find that their training was 100% worthless in the private sector once their service ended. If this is your motivation for joining... first be sure to do a fuckton of research and make sure you're getting what you think you are.
IMO, and I know I said I wouldn't say this... but I can't help it..... but the only rational reason I can see for joining the armed forces is if you literally have no other option in life. Like if it's a choice between that, or living on the street. That's the only way it would make sense to me.
But even then I'd hesitate.
EDIT:
Or like if your home life situation is so terrible that you need an escape. Like if staying in your situation would cause you to spiral out of control and would be incredibly self destructive. Then it would make sense.
/EDIT
And to clarify, I am friends with people who are serving and have served, and I have absolutely nothing against these people personally, and I certainly don't think any less of them... but I honestly cannot wrap my head around their life choices.
| irrelevant, but Disch, I can't help but notice you have 13007 posts. How long has this forum been around? :\ |
*shrugs*
Beats me. I've been here for years though. From my bio, it looks like I joined over 5 years ago.
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Bah... I can't help it.
Okay -- people get caught up in the little perks that the military offers. It'll pay for your college, it'll teach you stuff, it'll get you in shape... yadda yadda. Those all might be true. But that's not what joining the military is. Those are all side-effects.
Joining the military is uprooting yourself to fly across the country -- waking up before dawn to do extremely physically demanding work -- with shitty pay -- all while putting your life in danger --- for a cause that is very questionable.
The US has been warring, either in active wars, cold wars, or armed occupations, constantly for like the past 50 years. It's a really fucking dangerous line of work... even in "times of peace" (which we're not even in right now -- don't know if you notice ... we kind of have this thing going on in the middle east).
So before you join the military... ask yourself.... Is that really what you want? Do you want to be posted in the fucking desert, away from your family for years, eating shit food, getting paid next to nothing, and fighting off psychopaths? Because that's what you're signing on for.
The Army's PR dept is obviously going to try to glamorize it and sell you with all the little perks that it can offer -- but sit back and fucking think about what the work actually is. Do you want to have anything to do with that shit?
Seriously. Just think about it.
Okay -- people get caught up in the little perks that the military offers. It'll pay for your college, it'll teach you stuff, it'll get you in shape... yadda yadda. Those all might be true. But that's not what joining the military is. Those are all side-effects.
Joining the military is uprooting yourself to fly across the country -- waking up before dawn to do extremely physically demanding work -- with shitty pay -- all while putting your life in danger --- for a cause that is very questionable.
The US has been warring, either in active wars, cold wars, or armed occupations, constantly for like the past 50 years. It's a really fucking dangerous line of work... even in "times of peace" (which we're not even in right now -- don't know if you notice ... we kind of have this thing going on in the middle east).
So before you join the military... ask yourself.... Is that really what you want? Do you want to be posted in the fucking desert, away from your family for years, eating shit food, getting paid next to nothing, and fighting off psychopaths? Because that's what you're signing on for.
The Army's PR dept is obviously going to try to glamorize it and sell you with all the little perks that it can offer -- but sit back and fucking think about what the work actually is. Do you want to have anything to do with that shit?
Seriously. Just think about it.
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closed account (Gvp9LyTq)
Please don't; regardless of what anyone tells you the military is at it's best is a waste of your time.
Yes I am a veteran and I lost four good years of my life. The military is not a bad career it is a bad life move.
You will never find a creative person who served that says it was a good move. The list of creative people who say it was a waste of time or worse is almost endless. Please note I said 'creative"--because there is a type of person who likes the military.
I didn't think I would ever post again--but hearing someone 14 considering the military was too upsetting.
Yes I am a veteran and I lost four good years of my life. The military is not a bad career it is a bad life move.
You will never find a creative person who served that says it was a good move. The list of creative people who say it was a waste of time or worse is almost endless. Please note I said 'creative"--because there is a type of person who likes the military.
I didn't think I would ever post again--but hearing someone 14 considering the military was too upsetting.
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| AFAIK you don't just "become an officer". It's a rank. You have to work your way up to it. It's not like the army is just hiring people with no military experience on as Lieutenants. |
I do see the "AFAIK", so this isn't completely a correction. But, there is West Point in New York, and I've been there... several times, actually. There, you can enlist as an officer in the military. Needless to say, I think that regular enlistees can eventually work their way up to officer.
About the air force thing, yeah. I have had 3 speakers come into class and talk about their job in the air force, how they joined hoping to fly jets and what not, but really just end up hanging around the base, checking on the planes, supplies. So, that is why I stated "maybe" prior to mentioning my idea on that.
To disagree with your thoughts on why people would join, somebody's gotta do it. Some people find the combat fun. With as big of a nation as the USA, and all the corrupt, crazy leaders out there (future leaders or present), you kind of need an army on standby. Just like somebody has to be the doctor, or police officer, or banker even.
| According to the copyright notice at the bottom of the page, it has been around for 14 years. |
I have never... ever noticed that there.
EDIT: Just watched the Louie CK vids. He has a good point, but like I said earlier, with a nation as big as the US, you need a military on standby for defense. With WW2, imagine us not having a military larger than 10,000 when Japan attacked us. We would have been completely destroyed. This way there is a point, but with what Louie CK said, shooting someone on their soil is different.
Only if world peace was possible....
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| To disagree with your thoughts on why people would join, somebody's gotta do it. |
Do they?
You're opening a whole other can of worms with me that I'm trying to keep a lid on. Hahaha.
EDIT:
| With WW2, imagine us not having a military larger than 10,000 when Japan attacked us. |
If we didn't have a large military, we wouldn't have been attacked.
Japan was attacking the military post to reduce our forces because we were gearing up to enter the war and they knew it.
EDIT 2:
Well... they would have attacked the Philippines regardless, which I guess was US occupied.
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Wow I was just going to concede my argument about WW2 until I read your second edit. Now I am... sort of right :D. I am more of a later WW2 guy when it comes to WW2.
If I went further into that, I would start something on wars and world peace. So, to keep it simple in my eyes: They sort of do. Sadly, humanity is a greedy species, especially country / empire wise, and people with small armies usually are wiped out when a greedy asshole is new leader. Example: Napoleon, Ottoman Empire. Obviously, these are two really old things, and perhaps times have changed a bit. A recent one (not a worldwide threat): ISIS.
Hmm... Not too simple. So much for keeping the can of worms sealed.
| Do they? You're opening a whole other can of worms with me that I'm trying to keep a lid on. Hahaha. |
If I went further into that, I would start something on wars and world peace. So, to keep it simple in my eyes: They sort of do. Sadly, humanity is a greedy species, especially country / empire wise, and people with small armies usually are wiped out when a greedy asshole is new leader. Example: Napoleon, Ottoman Empire. Obviously, these are two really old things, and perhaps times have changed a bit. A recent one (not a worldwide threat): ISIS.
Hmm... Not too simple. So much for keeping the can of worms sealed.
| Sadly, humanity is a greedy species, especially country / empire wise, and people with small armies usually are wiped out when a greedy asshole is new leader. |
I'm really biting my lip here trying not to point out the obvious.
Why is the US not on your list here?
We live rich, but are in debt.
We consume more resources than anyone else (except for maybe China), but we don't really produce any -- or at least... not nearly as much as we consume.
In fact... all we really have is our military, which is the strongest the world has ever known.
There's a clear connection here.
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Ugh. I typed out USA, because of us and the Natives, Mexico, what have you. I guess I was afraid of any overly patriotic people saying that and interrogating me over what America has done.
Ha! Yeah. Pretty sad. You seem pretty intelligent, so I'm sure you know that USA has actually never been out of debt. Right after the Revolutionary War, we had like, 50 million in debts. It was paid back once, I don't remember when, but I do know that very shortly after we went below again. At least we have an excuse when asked why we are late on paying a bill. "It's the American way".
| We live rich, but are in debt. |
Ha! Yeah. Pretty sad. You seem pretty intelligent, so I'm sure you know that USA has actually never been out of debt. Right after the Revolutionary War, we had like, 50 million in debts. It was paid back once, I don't remember when, but I do know that very shortly after we went below again. At least we have an excuse when asked why we are late on paying a bill. "It's the American way".
| Ha! Yeah. Pretty sad. You seem pretty intelligent, so I'm sure you know that USA has actually never been out of debt. Right after the Revolutionary War, we had like, 50 million in debts. It was paid back once, I don't remember when, but I do know that very shortly after we went below again. At least we have an excuse when asked why we are late on paying a bill. "It's the American way". |
Don't really wanna join in on the debate about the military but just wanted to point out that EVERY county (Well not every country but the overall majority of them) is almost always in debt not just the USA (Yes even China).
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Just a debt table I found:
http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/774/economics/list-of-national-debt-by-country/
According to that, 161 countries are in debt. There are only 196 countries (I think?), so yeah. I guess almost every country is in debt.
http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/774/economics/list-of-national-debt-by-country/
According to that, 161 countries are in debt. There are only 196 countries (I think?), so yeah. I guess almost every country is in debt.
Unless you are willing to go through a lot of pain, not just physically, but the mental images as well I'd advise you to stay at home and code.
These legless vets you are talking about, I assure you their mental scars are cut far deeper.
My mothers father, grandad Tom. Enlisted in the army at age 17 to fight the Germans. He was in the RAF, Airborne I'm not sure of the company he was in. Fought in many important battles in France, Holland and Germany.
The story he told me about dropping into Arnhem is by far the one that got to me the most. Within 10 seconds of dropping out the plane a 25 man division was reduced to 6. He lost the only friends he ever new in the blink of an eye, including a brother; you don't get to mourn though soldier, oh no. He often heard men crying in their sleep.
Tom was shot 14 times in his career, many of which were rounds going through his feet. He killed men, men he knew had wives, families, children. Died of cancer in his late 70's.
I could see it in his eyes that he died a long time ago.
If there is anything he taught me. No matter who you fight, or whose side you are on. You don't win.
Just like these men I don't like to deter people away from their dreams, I encourage them. But not in this. I understand the second world war was a vicious one, something I am glad I didn't have to experience, and I am proud, of every man who risked his life to protect the man to his left and to his right. Every man an emperor.
The only reason I would join up is as Disch mentioned, homelessness or other life circumstances, or hostile aliens, that would be cool.
These legless vets you are talking about, I assure you their mental scars are cut far deeper.
My mothers father, grandad Tom. Enlisted in the army at age 17 to fight the Germans. He was in the RAF, Airborne I'm not sure of the company he was in. Fought in many important battles in France, Holland and Germany.
The story he told me about dropping into Arnhem is by far the one that got to me the most. Within 10 seconds of dropping out the plane a 25 man division was reduced to 6. He lost the only friends he ever new in the blink of an eye, including a brother; you don't get to mourn though soldier, oh no. He often heard men crying in their sleep.
Tom was shot 14 times in his career, many of which were rounds going through his feet. He killed men, men he knew had wives, families, children. Died of cancer in his late 70's.
I could see it in his eyes that he died a long time ago.
If there is anything he taught me. No matter who you fight, or whose side you are on. You don't win.
Just like these men I don't like to deter people away from their dreams, I encourage them. But not in this. I understand the second world war was a vicious one, something I am glad I didn't have to experience, and I am proud, of every man who risked his life to protect the man to his left and to his right. Every man an emperor.
The only reason I would join up is as Disch mentioned, homelessness or other life circumstances, or hostile aliens, that would be cool.
Here's the full rundown for your idea of joining the military:
Q: Can I join as an officer?
A: Yes, if you have a bachelor's or more. This goes for every branch. You'll be a 2nd LT (or O1 pay grade if you prefer).
Q: Can I get blown the fuck up as an officer?
A: Yes, but it's less likely than enlisted (and even THAT's pretty unlikely).
Q: Is it a good idea to join?
A: Entirely depends on your situation and goals. You're 14 and want to be a programmer, so was I once, and yet I'm in the military. The intervening years were filled with extreme mistakes. So unless you have major fuck-ups, I wouldn't recommend it.
Q: Will I be a hero?
A: No one here feels like one. We feel more like bored sheep. Consider that.
Q: Is it good money-wise?
A: For officers? Yes.
Q: Will they pay for college?
A: Yes. But again, you need college first to join as an officer.
Q: Will I end up psychologically damaged?
A: Maybe, probably if you stay in long enough. You will certainly have a personality change though, and I can't tell you if it's good or bad.
This next bit is for Disch. No one joins the military purely because of what it's currently up to in the world (anymore, except for the 18 year olds). I don't agree or disagree with how it's used. The fact of the matter is, we don't fight our country, or our ideals, or any nutty shit like that. You fight because if you don't, the guy (or gal) standing next to you gets it. Most of us don't care for politics or propaganda, and we don't care why we're in the country we're in.
EDIT: Last note, if you join, you will deploy. I guarantee it. With the downsizing and the ramping up of operations abroad, you will deploy.
EDIT EDIT: I forgot the most important question.
Q: Should I join the military?
A: In your shoes, I wouldn't.
Q: Can I join as an officer?
A: Yes, if you have a bachelor's or more. This goes for every branch. You'll be a 2nd LT (or O1 pay grade if you prefer).
Q: Can I get blown the fuck up as an officer?
A: Yes, but it's less likely than enlisted (and even THAT's pretty unlikely).
Q: Is it a good idea to join?
A: Entirely depends on your situation and goals. You're 14 and want to be a programmer, so was I once, and yet I'm in the military. The intervening years were filled with extreme mistakes. So unless you have major fuck-ups, I wouldn't recommend it.
Q: Will I be a hero?
A: No one here feels like one. We feel more like bored sheep. Consider that.
Q: Is it good money-wise?
A: For officers? Yes.
Q: Will they pay for college?
A: Yes. But again, you need college first to join as an officer.
Q: Will I end up psychologically damaged?
A: Maybe, probably if you stay in long enough. You will certainly have a personality change though, and I can't tell you if it's good or bad.
This next bit is for Disch. No one joins the military purely because of what it's currently up to in the world (anymore, except for the 18 year olds). I don't agree or disagree with how it's used. The fact of the matter is, we don't fight our country, or our ideals, or any nutty shit like that. You fight because if you don't, the guy (or gal) standing next to you gets it. Most of us don't care for politics or propaganda, and we don't care why we're in the country we're in.
EDIT: Last note, if you join, you will deploy. I guarantee it. With the downsizing and the ramping up of operations abroad, you will deploy.
EDIT EDIT: I forgot the most important question.
Q: Should I join the military?
A: In your shoes, I wouldn't.
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Again, I want to stress that I'm not trying to be offensive here. I just simply don't understand and am trying to visualize:
This is part of the "choices I don't understand".
Why would you sign up to fight if you don't know/care what you're even fighting for? Let alone not even agree with it?
At best that makes you a mercenary, doesn't it? How do you find pride, or even happiness in that?
I totally get standing up and fighting for your fellow soldier. That makes perfect sense to me. But it's like... you and that soldier are there by your own accord. It's kind of like helping your friends fight off a pack of lions after you all agreed to jump into a lion pit in the zoo. Wouldn't it be better if none of you jumped in in the first place?
| sargon94 wrote: |
|---|
| This next bit is for Disch. No one joins the military purely because of what it's currently up to in the world (anymore, except for the 18 year olds). |
This is part of the "choices I don't understand".
Why would you sign up to fight if you don't know/care what you're even fighting for? Let alone not even agree with it?
At best that makes you a mercenary, doesn't it? How do you find pride, or even happiness in that?
I totally get standing up and fighting for your fellow soldier. That makes perfect sense to me. But it's like... you and that soldier are there by your own accord. It's kind of like helping your friends fight off a pack of lions after you all agreed to jump into a lion pit in the zoo. Wouldn't it be better if none of you jumped in in the first place?
We ARE mercenaries. We are paid to do whatever the fuck they want to do and have no right to complain since we volunteered for it. I don't really find loads of pride or happiness in it. You just get used to it, to everything that's thrown at you.
Like I said, I don't recommend this for anyone. I just joined because I was out of options and they'd pay for college. It's not terrible by any means, just has it's ups and down.
Really, if your reason for joining is literally 'serve my country', you need to examine that further. That's the reason you give when people ask you because it's what's expected of you, not in any way reality.
OP: If you do go college than officer, look in the ROTC program. Also understand you may not immediately get the respect that's technically associated with your rank. <- That's a big one.
Like I said, I don't recommend this for anyone. I just joined because I was out of options and they'd pay for college. It's not terrible by any means, just has it's ups and down.
Really, if your reason for joining is literally 'serve my country', you need to examine that further. That's the reason you give when people ask you because it's what's expected of you, not in any way reality.
OP: If you do go college than officer, look in the ROTC program. Also understand you may not immediately get the respect that's technically associated with your rank. <- That's a big one.
| have no right to complain since we volunteered for it |
Unless there's a draft. But I don't see one being likely in the near future.
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