Tom & Jerry were pure genius

[Disch]

The title sums it up.

Just look at this 25 second clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOp8aL37dQ8

You know the joke is coming. But its delivery is flawless. Pure gold.



PS. that video is 70 years old.


EDIT:

And this... bwahahaha:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpURPw9x00E

[LB]

I am definitely a fan of the original, the musical accompaniment was just as amazing as the slapstick humor. It's kinda sad to see the attempted continuations flop.

Also, here's an editorial by Nostalgia Critic:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4g95LoGROho

[Disch]

Actually the Nostalgia Critic's review of the T&J movie is why I watched the show again! Hah!

I hadn't seen his classic T&J review yet though. Thanks for the link.

It's kinda sad to see the attempted continuations flop.

This isn't surprising at all. Tom & Jerry fills a really weird "cartoons for adults" niche that doesn't really exist in the same form anymore... or at least has drastically changed over time.

Today, "cartoons for adults" is pretty much filled with shows like South Park, Family Guy (is that show even still on?) and those types of shows. They're more like sitcom/satire. Modern animated slapstick is pretty much reserved for shows clearly targeting the younger audience, and as the Critic points out in that video you linked... those shows are more "cartoonish" and less hard-hitting (probably because they're targeting the younger audience).



That said... the "Itchy & Scratchy" shorts on the Simpsons were actually surprisingly close. They were clearly parodying T&J and were using extreme exaggeration to make fun of how violent the show was... but if you get past that... those shorts are actually really funny in the same way that T&J was.

I mean... seriously. Watch it I&S again:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3PDKESyHj8

It's funny in all the same ways that T&J was. Sure... not as funny (at least not without having the context of being a T&J parody), but still.

The Critic makes another really good point: T&J just needs to be shorts. ~7 minutes. The routine gets old if you do it too long... and it gets boring if you slow it down to stretch it out. That format doesn't really exist on TV and in theaters... so there's no real commercial market for it.


.... or at least there wasn't. This kind of format is perfect for something like a web series. A modern adaptation of T&J could thrive as a YouTube series if done properly. A short 7 minute video once every couple of months. But again... maybe that simply isn't enough content to be profitable on its own. *shrug*

Though now... T&J has been butchered so bad that the real target audience (adults) won't bother watching it since they associate it with targeting children. So I don't think it'll ever have a revival.

[LB]

Disch wrote:

.... or at least there wasn't. This kind of format is perfect for something like a web series. A modern adaptation of T&J could thrive as a YouTube series if done properly. A short 7 minute video once every couple of months. But again... maybe that simply isn't enough content to be profitable on its own. *shrug*

Have you seen Simon's Cat?
https://www.youtube.com/user/simonscat
Each episode is typical cat behavior, and then the end is a sudden deviation from the norm that throws you off guard laughing.

[Computergeek01]

I loved these older cartoons. I don't think that the reasons we don't see shows like this anymore is for a lack of trying on the part of the writers. I just think that the best they can come out with are the "edgy" shows that you mentioned before. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the hell out of "American Dad" and "Family Guy", but I can feel it appealing to the LCD of my brain in a way that the classics never needed to. If you look at all of your favorite cartoons I guarantee that you can trace most, if not all, of them back to either William Hanna and Joseph Barbara or Tex Avery.

[Disch]

LB wrote:

Have you seen Simon's Cat?

I've seen a few before but had forgotten about it. It's pretty good, although none of the ones I've seen really make me crack up a whole lot.

Computergeek01 wrote:

I just think that the best they can come out with are the "edgy" shows that you mentioned before. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the hell out of "American Dad" and "Family Guy", but I can feel it appealing to the LCD of my brain in a way that the classics never needed to.

It's not just the writing either, though. It's the drawing and animation itself. Older cartoons are just more animated than modern ones. Especially in the case of T&J.

Most of the animation in modern cartoons now are mouth flaps, and maybe some simplistic walking/running animation. But if you look at old T&J clips... they're amazing. It's like they redraw their entire body for each frame. And the backgrounds are GORGEOUS. And the music is like a full symphony.

That same care just isn't put into animation any more. The closest you get is CGI... but that's a whole different style that I haven't really warmed up to.


Seriously... watch the "Let me have it" clip I posted in my first post... and just look at the movements of Tom.

Now compare that to this random clip of Family Guy that I found:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lich59xsjik

Most of the animation there is mouth flaps... and they occasionally move their arms a bit.. but that's kind of it. For the most part they stay stationary with little/no movement.

If you look at all of your favorite cartoons I guarantee that you can trace most, if not all, of them back to either William Hanna and Joseph Barbara or Tex Avery.

Ironically... T&J is just about the only thing from Hanna-Barberra that I ever liked. Everything else they ever did was complete shit.

When's the last time you saw the Flintstones? It fucking sucks. It doesn't even try to be funny.

[Cody0023]

I never thought tom and jerry was funny, but i have seen just about every episode lol

[admkrk]

One thing to consider is that Tom and Jerry followed on the heals of Merry Melodies and Loony Toons. As strange as it might sound, those were meant to be commercials for the music and enhance the desire to purchase the music. Songs are still referred to as "tunes" are they not? Musical tastes were changing and cartoons were just starting to be marketed toward children instead of adults, although they still held adult appeal. Couple that with the "outcry" to sensor violence in cartoons and you kill off a genre.

If you think about it, today's commercials are not much different other than they are trying to sell a product other than the sound track.

And just because, honorable mention should go to the Pink Panther. Would anyone remember Henry Mancini otherwise?

[Computergeek01]

Ironically... T&J is just about the only thing from Hanna-Barberra that I ever liked. Everything else they ever did was complete shit.

Eh, I have a soft spot for Scooby-Doo I guess. That might be why I even like the new episodes as much as the older ones. It never really registered with me that they made the Flintstones but I agree, I never liked any of the episodes and the movies were a travesty that were so bad they didn't even become good again*.

*: In my mind there is some credibility to the theory that the Flintstones movie was setup to tank from the start. Maybe John Goodman was good choice for Fred Flintstone, but everyone else was just terrible. Why the hell would you ever choose Rosie O'Donnell as Betty Rubble? "Oh, we're trying to cast the neighbors attractive and demure house wife? Let's choose the feminist comedian who has a reputation for being loud and give her like lines in the entire movie, none of which are even remotely funny!" The only person I can think of who could have been a worse choice would be Rose-anne Barr.

[Disch]

I liked Scooby-Doo as a kid because it was a cartoon and it was on TV. As soon as I was old enough to know better, I realized it was stupid.

I mean, I guess I can understand having a nostalgic attachment to it, but you can form that with any show -- especially ones which are effectively imprinted on you at an early age. But that doesn't really make the show good.

Scooby-Doo was the worst kind of formulaic trite. Every episode was the same. The only difference was the monster design. What's worse, it wasn't even unique -- Hanna-Barbera rehashed the "ragtag group of teens solving mysteries" formula several more times with Josie and the Pussycats, Speed Buggy, and (cringe) Jabberjaw.

I don't know why Scooby-Doo was more popular than those. It certainly wasn't any better. Or really any different.





EDIT:

That's not to say Tom and Jerry wasn't formulaic. It certainly was. But I mean.... well... hopefully you know what I mean.

[admkrk]

lol, iirc Josie and the Pussy Cats was a spinoff of Scoobie-Doo. Speed Buggy obviously was trying to combine parts of Scoobie and Speed Racer. Jabberjaw, well I hate you for even reminding me of that. Will it be even if I bring up the Hair Bear Bunch?

[Disch]

lol, iirc Josie and the Pussy Cats was a spinoff of Scoobie-Doo

None of the characters were from Scooby-Doo so I don't see how it could have been a spinoff. It was just a really lame copy.

"Hey Scooby-Doo was successful, so let's make another show that's exactly the same thing."

Jabberjaw, well I hate you for even reminding me of that.

Look through a list of Hanna-Barbera cartoons once. If you ranked them from best to worst... Jabberjaw, as bad as it is, would probably only be in the middle somewhere.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_works_produced_by_Hanna-Barbera_Productions

Huckleberry Hound... Top Cat... Yogi Bear... Jetsons... Magilla Gorilla... it's like a whirlwind of crap.

Those guys made tons of garbage. Like I say... Tom & Jerry was really the only thing they ever made that was good.

Some of their shows (like Space Ghost, Sealab 2020) were so campy and bad that they actually got remade later as self-mocking comedies (see Space Ghost: Coast to Coast and Sealab 2021)

Will it be even if I bring up the Hair Bear Bunch?

Hair Bear Bunch was more Hanna-Barbera.

Crap crap crap.




EDIT:

Even the titles are just really bad jokes. It's almost as if the didn't even bother coming up with a premise for most of the shows... they just thought of a 'wacky' title and then slapped a show around it.

"Hair Bear Bunch"? Oh I get it... because 'Hair' was popular at the time.. and because 'Bear' rhymes with 'Hair'. Isn't that hilarious? What a great premise for a show!

I can imagine them scratching their heads trying to think up a word that rhymes with 'gorilla'. "Barilla"? "Farilla"? How about "Magilla"? Perfect! "Magilla Gorilla"! That's fucking genius!

And don't forget the masterpiece "Squiddly Diddly". About as creative as "Catsy Watsy", a show I just made up about a cat who keeps getting into trouble with the neighborhood dog gang.


Fuck these guys. (not Hanna and Barbera personally -- but their horrible, horrible company)

[ResidentBiscuit]

So much hate towards shows I have fond memories watching as a child :O They really could be bad, I don't remember them well enough to judge.

I did really enjoy Space Ghost: Coast to Coast though...

[admkrk]

None of the characters were from Scooby-Doo so I don't see how it could have been a spinoff.

I was thinking that they originally appeared on Scoobie. Like how the Jefferson's was a spin-off from All in the Family. It could have been that they already existed and just did a "guest spot" or two though. It is hard to remember that long ago.

[Disch]

ResidentBiscuit wrote:

So much hate towards shows I have fond memories watching as a child :O They really could be bad, I don't remember them well enough to judge.

They really are that bad.

Watch them again sometime with adult eyes -- you'll be amazed.

I did really enjoy Space Ghost: Coast to Coast though...

Coast to Coast was pretty good. That was after the H-B company got their act together... around the same time Cartoon Network was really starting to break out. Sealab 2021 was hilarious too (at first... it got lame after a while). But the original Space Ghost? Ugh.

When I think of H-B, though -- and what I'm complaining about in this thread... is the H-B of the past. Anything after 1990 is a different story.

admkrk wrote:

I was thinking that they originally appeared on Scoobie. Like how the Jefferson's was a spin-off from All in the Family.

Spin-offs are when characters from the original show get their own show. In All in the Family... the Jeffersons were the Bunker's neighbors. So they were a recurring characters on the show.

I've never heard of anyone getting a spinoff from a single appearance on a show. It's more likely that Josie made a guest appearance on Scooby-Doo after it was already its own show -- sort of like a cross-promotion. Scooby-Doo did a lot of that crap in the later years. Hell, even the 3 stooges were on Scooby-Doo IIRC.

But who knows. Maybe you're right. *shrug*

[Computergeek01]

@ Disch: Zig and Sharko? It's on Netflix, it's more senseless violence the T&J but I find it funny enough.