What's the betting...

[z05DSL3A]

That picture makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside. ;0)

Anyone who knows a few things about hardware wouldn't touch something like this with a 10-foot pole.

Why not? I don't see what is so impractical about it.

[chrisname]

Anyone who knows a few things about hardware wouldn't touch something like this with a 10-foot pole.

I have to agree. I think actual macs are horrible. They look real nice, but to be perfectly honest I find them pointless. My friend wants to get that case (for his PC) because it's supposedly real good for cooling (we both like pretending we know what we're doing when it comes to OCing... really, we're a pair of noobs, but let's not dwell...). I just want the OS and the shell (the GUI is real nice, and although that doesn't really matter; if you can have a functional OS and a nice GUI then so much the better. Microsoft seem to disagree, and think that the latter is the most important part, but whatever).

I'm probably going to install BSD... I'm not sure which though. Probably Free- or OpenBSD, because NetBSD is mainly for insane people that want things like this:
http://dancotofanu.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/netbsd-toaster.jpg
which admittedly is awesome but somewhat OTT.

Edit: Notice how the LED display claims "Toaster ready to accept toast". Who the hell puts toast in a toaster? The input should be bread, the output is toast.

Fools!

[eker676]

Edit: Notice how the LED display claims "Toaster ready to accept toast". Who the hell puts toast in a toaster? The input should be bread, the output is toast.

Haha good catch there.

I don't use a Mac mainly because you can buy a used car for the price of a good mac. Also, I have used Windows all my life and I don't feel like dropping a grand just to test out a new os.

[chrisname]

That's a huge reason why I don't use a mac. Overpriced piece of junk compared to what you can get for about half the price.

[z05DSL3A]

Yes, they are slightly more expensive than any equivalent spec/quality PC but Junk? You can indeed get junk PCs for half the price of a Mac and think you have a bargain.

[chrisname]

Yes, they are slightly more expensive than any equivalent spec/quality PC but Junk? You can indeed get junk PCs for half the price of a Mac and think you have a bargain.

I don't know. You probably get them legitimately -- you like them, using them, etc.
I hate people that get them because they look good, or because they're expensive.

I do love how they look, and I did like the OS the last few times I used it; but they're too expensive for what you get for me to take them seriously

[z05DSL3A]

...but they're too expensive for what you get for me to take them seriously

The thing that I object to is the inference that a cheap PC is the equivalent of a Mac. It is kind of like comparing Skodas with BMWs. If you take for example a 24" iMac and compare it with an equivalent Dell (XPS One IIRC), they are around the same price (I know some people don't think much of Dell either before we go down that path).

I agree with you about people that buy Macs for the image but that is more about the owner and not the Mac.

[JCED]

I'm probably going to install BSD...

I'm surprised nobody has already posted this: http://xkcd.com/349/

[helios]

Why not? I don't see what is so impractical about it.

You would if you had ever blown your power supply and had to buy an <OEM manufacturer> power supply because nothing else would fit in the case. Or if you like playing with Theseus' paradox.

Yes, they are slightly more expensive than any equivalent spec/quality PC but Junk?

I suppose it depends where you live. Here, they're easily 2-3 times more expensive than an equivalent home-built. Needless to say, they have a much worse reputation than in the US. I've only known two people who owned Macs. One hadn't paid for his, and the other was a graphic designer who fell victim to marketing. I've never actually seen a Mac outside of a store. To be honest, I wonder what keeps the Apple stores running.

I suppose Macs are not quite garbage. Garbage isn't Turing-complete*. The real question is whether it's worth it.
Pros:
Looks nice.
Fewer cables, depending on model.
Good quality hardware. Let's assume they do have it, but it's a comparison to a similar PC built with similar hardware.
Cons:
More expensive.
Less flexibility for upgrades. Some models are built like a TV, combining all the disadvantages of desktops with all the disadvantages of laptops.

Now, unless Macs' hardware is sprinkled with magical fairy dust at the Apple assembly line, I can't think of anything that would give Macs an advantage of the kind Grey Wolf describes. If anything, this sounds more like a bottled water kind of deal.

_{*Under most circumstances.}

[mcleano]

I'm coming here and, not reading the other posts as its late and i'm v.tired!, I can say that yes it can be done, you need to look for hackintosh as I think someone has already posted, and yes I do know someone who has done it :)

Will read this thread through tomorrow!

[z05DSL3A]

I can't think of anything that would give Macs an advantage of the kind Grey Wolf describes.

At what point have I described any advantage to having a Mac over a 'PC'? I'm not trying to convert anyone to anything, all I am doing is objecting to the bullshit comparison.

[Lodger]

Personally, I prefer to take the "Use the right tool for the right job" stance. We have 200 artists using various Adobe products for 90% of their day. For our business, a Mac is the right tool for the job. They're low maintenance, stable and easy to support (most of them anyway). Their benefits outweigh the risks.

However we also have a rather large web-based workflow tracking application which is written using .NET technologies, backed by SQL server 2005. For our business requirements, a Windows platform and the .NET framework is the right tool for the job.

Both platforms have their pros & cons, it's about deciding which one is right for you (or the problem you're trying to solve)

[z05DSL3A]

"Personally, I prefer to take the "Use the right tool for the right job" stance...Both platforms have their pros & cons, it's about deciding which one is right for you..."

I could not agree more.

[helios]

I don't see how comparing two products assembled from the same parts and aimed at the same markets is bullshit. It's the point I was trying to convey with my bottled water comment.
And I didn't say "advantage to having a Mac over a PC". I said "advantages Macs have over PCs". As in general higher quality. That's what you meant by comparing Skoda to BMW, right?

As for Macs being better for graphic design or other creative endeavors, I'm sorry, but I have to call bullshit. Maybe for video editing, since I understand there's this one software only available for MacOS or something.
You know how the more you hear a lie the more you believe it? That's exactly what Apple did.
I may be biased (actually, no. I am biased), but I honestly can't think of any situation or application where using a Mac would be preferable. The idea itself sounds stupid: Apple is just another PC OEM. Are there situations where using a Dell or an HP is the right choice?

Sigh... I really don't like having these discussions under a screen name.

[z05DSL3A]

Okay I will try this one more time.

I don't see how comparing two products assembled from the same parts and aimed at the same markets is bullshit.

Neither do I, as long as you include the full spec, at equivalent quality and include its form factor (by that I mean don't compare a home build tower with a Mac mini, that would not be like for like).

As in general higher quality. That's what you meant by comparing Skoda to BMW, right?

That is not entirely what I meant. The argument, as put forward by chrisname [1], would go along the lines of
My Skoda has a 2 liter engine, 4 wheel, five seats, a cd radio etc, the same spec as the a BMW, the BMW is an overpriced piece of junk. This is the type of comparison I refereed to as a bullshit comparison.

As I said if you compare like for like, (I used iMac and and XPS one as an example) the prices are similar, in this case I think the XPS is a little more expensive.

I didn't say "advantage to having a Mac over a PC". I said "advantages Macs have over PCs"

What ever you said about advantages, you attributed it to me saying it [2] and and I had not. If you believe I have, then you have misread or misunderstood something.

As for Macs being better for ...

I have not made any claims in these regards.




[1]

Overpriced piece of junk compared to what you can get for about half the price.

[2]

I can't think of anything that would give Macs an advantage of the kind Grey Wolf describes.

[helios]

I have not made any claims in these regards.

That one was for Lodger.

Okay, now I see what you mean. Unfortunately, we've reached the point of subjective utility. I'm going to illustrate our state with a picture: http://yfrog.com/0m155gtjbj
Are you a bad enough dude to drive a PC?

[chrisname]

Admitedly me calling it "junk" was OTT; but I stand by my opinion that apple stuff is overpriced.

[z05DSL3A]

Are you a bad enough dude to drive a PC?

I don't care what I drive as long as it gets me to my destination.

btw, I own PCs and Macs, and I do drive a Skoda. :0)

[Lodger]

For our business, a Mac is the right tool for the job.

Sorry, I wasn't implying that Mac's are generally better for graphic design etc, but they are better for our business requirements. One thing I forgot to mention on my last post was that we make heavy use of Applescript for workflow automation. Now don't get me wrong, Applescript is a horrid language, but it does what we need it to do and it does it well.

What I'm saying is that different people/companies have their own requirements, resources, constraints, budgets etc. When choosing a platform, all of these things must be taken into account and at the end of it, as long as you choose something that meets your needs and fits into your budget, it's the right decision.

I have my own personal opinions about the whole Apple/Microsoft thing, but I try not to let those opinions get in the way of choosing the right tool for the task at hand. I personally think that Apple products are overpriced, but at the end of the day, it aint me who's paying for them! :)

I'm sitting firmly on the fence on this one.

[Duthomhas]

These kinds of debates are always inanity, IMO. Lodger said it right.

Business concerns trump technical issues.