Programming and Depression?

[novellof]

Has programming ever made any of you depressed? If so I would like you to share your story with me. How you overcame your depression and why you were depressed to begin with.


Thanks,

feeling kinda low

[Cheraphy]

I suffer from Bi-polar disorder, and I know severe depression very well. Programming is actually something I use to keep my self sane while in a slump.

[novellof]

Thanks for sharing Cheraphy...

Do you ever feel depressed because there is a vast amount of information that is required with programming? And it feels as though the more you learn the more you realize you don't know...

Sounds weird idk...

Hard work this programming...I am possessed by wanting to make a game I don't care how long it takes me or how hard it is going to be but I will not be "happy" with myself until I make something that resembles a platformer in directX

[admkrk]

And it feels as though the more you learn the more you realize you don't know

That is true in any trade/profession. After a few years, just look back at all the people that are where you are now that "think" they know something/everything. My biggest complaint about school is that when people graduate, they have been "taught" that they know everything and in reality they know very little. As I said already, this is not just about programming, computers, or anything in particular, but it is true for everything.

[novellof]

Man i wish this post got more responses :(

Please share your ups and downs with programming

[megatron 0]

If programming makes you sad perhaps you shouldn't do it.

As Cheraphy stated coding is supposed to be enjoyed. That being said I've heard you are more likely to have a nervous break in a programming job than any other job. I doubt that's to do with actual programming though, probably the working environment.

I have suffered from severe depression close to 5 years now. Programming and helping others program helps me to escape that. There is a certain something with the alone time and the connection between yourself and the computer, helping to understand each other better. You may not know what I am talking about, but I'm sure many experienced programmers do.

In my experience and imho, programming isn't what people think it is. It's not a means to an end, or to create an application or piece of software. It's to better understand yourself and the world around you. Allowing yourself to discover who you are and how other people think.

When I see "good code". I don't see code. Code is how we read another persons thought process, how they think their way through a certain situation or problem. I see a good person, a great mind. Something I like to learn off.

If you would like to talk, or even to program together I'd be more than happy to assist.

[htirwin]

Do you ever feel depressed because there is a vast amount of information that is required with programming? And it feels as though the more you learn the more you realize you don't know...

You don't really need to know that much, you just need to know the basics and then know how to learn on demand. Generalists tend to know a lot, but not be an expert at anything. Most of the time you're better off learning the fundamentals and then specializing. Don't be discouraged by people on the internet who seem to know every obscure detail about everything. Most of them are just trying to show off and or are just being googles middle man, and ultimately they're just wasting a whole lot of time doing it.

Even if you think you know a lot, you had better at least brush up on what you think you know before applying it.

The point of most advanced courses is not to memorize a bunch of knowledge, algorithms, or math. The point is to learn what's out there and to recognize when your problem can be solved well by some method. You don't know how to use the method off the top of your head, but you know it exists, and you have acquired the skills to find the details on the internet or in the library, and then implement it yourself to solve your problem.

And even some of the fundamentals are not so important to know in detail. For example assembly language. In some niches this is very important, like compiler design, but for most programmers, just know the basics about how it works in general is more than enough.

The things you need to know and get good at are generally timeless, and mostly this is just learning how to learn and find information, getting good at being systematic, understanding different programming paradigms and design principles, and different approaches to the software life cycle, being pragmatic, and all of the things that come with general programming experience. Everything else such as libraries, languages and frameworks , change constantly. Those things you can learn on demand when your project or job requires it. Good professionals will keep up to date on what's out there, what advances have been made, etc, so they can recognize when something that exists already can be useful, and so they can be wise about preparing for the future in their work. And as simple as it sounds, one of the most important skills is being patient and being good at following instructions.

I am possessed by wanting to make a game I don't care how long it takes me or how hard it is going to be but I will not be "happy" with myself until I make something that resembles a platformer in directX

Striving to achieve this goal will be a good learning experience ( although I would recommend you use something like SFML or SDL to do this instead of directX directly ). But you should go about this in a smart way. It's the journey, not the destination. Take your time, and have fun with it. AND THIS CAN NOT BE STRESSED ENOUGH, BE HAPPY WITH YOURSELF WITH EVERY LITTLE IMPROVEMENT, EPIPHANY AND POSITIVE STEP YOU MAKE. And, make sure to try and learn the critical methods and tricks that people use along the way. This is the important thing, not that you complete your game. Save your masterpiece for when you are seasoned and ready.

Also, you will find that making a large scale game that people want to play is very time consuming, and most likely nobody will care about it anyways except yourself. Or maybe you make some simple game that goes viral? But don't think you are going to make the next generation MMORPG or FPS by yourself; you would be wasting your life.

Last, because video games are so popular, many many people go into programming strictly because they want to make games. This is fine, its just that the majority of them don't end up game makers, and even if they do get hired by a game studio, as a programmers, what you will be doing is a whole lot of programming. If you want to be a game programmer, you should also consider whether you love programming, not just video games, because that is how you would be spending your time. Otherwise, there are other jobs besides programming you might be able to do that may give you an actual opportunity to be involved in the design of the game besides being a programmer. Either way, game dev jobs are hard to get, you have to be talented, and be ready to be abused and underpaid.

[admkrk]

That is a good philosophy for a hobby, but that is about all it is.

There is a certain something with the alone time and the connection between yourself and the computer, helping to understand each other better.

I like woodworking and there is something about the feel of wood and the smell of wood as you work it down into a pile of sawdust and a finished product be it birdhouse, jewellery box, or even a house that just feels right. The problem is that you are only ever "alone" with it when it is a hobby. Once it becomes a source of income everything changes. One of the biggest changes is when a deadline comes into the picture. When you are doing it for yourself, as a hobby, it does not matter when you finish, or even if you do. When someone is paying you to finish, you not only have to finish, but finish in a reasonable amount of time. Once you fall behind schedule, stress starts to build up. As stress builds up, you start making stupid mistakes. For example, you cut out a side to the birdhouse and spend hours carving the prospective owner's name into it. When you go to fit it in place you find you measured wrong and it is too short. If you were building it for yourself, not a big problem. Your client is now put back a day from delivery though and everyone behind him is set back two days at least. Stress quickly can build into depression and your stress level is now growing if you care about what you send out of your shop.

As I said before, this applies to everything. It is part of life. The theory about taking something you like to do and make a living out of it is only partially valid. After you worked all day building bird houses for other people, you are no longer going to want to do it in the evening to relax.

I used to do auto body work and when i worked at dealerships there was a running joke about how you could tell a mechanic from a bodyman by his ride. A mechanic drove a car that looked great, but probably did not run very well because he could always fix it when he had time. A bodyman's car ran great, but was most likely several colors including different colors of primer. The bodyman's car never got painted and the mechanics car never ran right.

Does this story have a moral? Beats me. All I can say is if you are stressed out over something, you will get depressed no matter what it is. If you can get rid of the stress in one way or another, you most likely will not be depressed.

[htirwin]

As I said before, this applies to everything. It is part of life. The theory about taking something you like to do and make a living out of it is only partially valid. After you worked all day building bird houses for other people, you are no longer going to want to do it in the evening to relax.

Maybe it depends on what kind of birdhouses you are making as well. Do you get to design the birdhouses? Are they always the same, or is each unique? Are you trying to hammer them out as fast as possible? Is your boss breathing down your neck micromanaging you, telling you to go faster?

If it's still just a hobby and it's already making you depressed, that's a bad sign. For me, programming made me happy when I first started. But I do understand the stress that comes along with struggling at some things, and with feeling overwhelmed. You may be able to overcome that though.

[megatron 0]

@admkrk

I'm glad you enjoy woodworking as much as I like programming.

The theory about taking something you like to do and make a living out of it is only partially valid. After you worked all day building bird houses for other people, you are no longer going to want to do it in the evening to relax.

It depends on who you are and if you look at your career as gold mine or a passion. People who create software for money will automatically write bad code, you can tell because you can see through their solution that their head isn't in the right place, I'm hoping others can agree. I believe the amount of bugs in a codebase is the exponential of the amount of programmers working on the code, or something along those lines. Maybe that's just coincidence. All those people are writing that software for the same purpose. Not to create software, but to pay bills.

Some of the best programming solutions I have seen have come from people who did it purely to entice their own curiosity, totally separated from professionalism.

Perhaps my Psycho-socio philosophy is based on pure crap and my mind doesn't decode the true nature of programming motives. Who knows. I don't, that's why I prefer to code and leave the debating to those who have experienced enough of it to have a well structured opinion. Though it's rare they come out of the wood work, they're usually overridden by the loudness of egotistical, opinionated "professionals", and would prefer to keep to themselves, and their coding.

I can tell I am tired, I am talking to much. I'll let you guys figure it out. :-)