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Living in ISIS: Scary
Well, I'd rather be shot several times, dead in less then 2 seconds, than to be sold into slavery for 25 years, IMO.
| Stewbond wrote: |
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| Moving internationally is not as hard as it sounds. |
A lot of people can't even afford the airfare. Let alone speak the language of the country they're moving to. Let alone have work waiting for them when they get there.
Nevermind the idea of completely uprooting your life, getting rid of most of your possessions, moving away from all your friends/family/safety nets, etc, etc.
Some people can do it without a problem. My sister travels the world and never really stays anywhere longer than a few years. It's her thing -- so it's easy for her. Maybe you're the same way.
But for most people... it is incredibly difficult. Even if they have the means to do so... it is still something that is completely life-changing -- and for most people, big life-changing events are never easy.
| AceDawg45 wrote: |
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| Well, I'd rather be shot several times, dead in less then 2 seconds, than to be sold into slavery for 25 years, IMO. |
Ehhh... that's an easy thing to say when you are nowhere even close to having to make such a horrible decision.
I'd probably take the slavery over death. Generally... being alive is better than being dead. Much better.
Hmm... Sure, life is better then death. But, if you look at how slaves were treated 100 years ago (ever see 12 Years a Slave?), it was pretty brutal. And those were just racist, greedy white guys.
Being enslaved by radical, bloodthirsty terrorists sounds unimaginable.
If I was given a choice up front - killed or enslaved - I would take the latter, but soon after I would probably look into suicide.
I could always run away like people always did, but if I were to run away from some camp in the Middle East, chances are I am in the middle of the desert. So, I would probably die from thirst soon after.
Being enslaved by radical, bloodthirsty terrorists sounds unimaginable.
If I was given a choice up front - killed or enslaved - I would take the latter, but soon after I would probably look into suicide.
I could always run away like people always did, but if I were to run away from some camp in the Middle East, chances are I am in the middle of the desert. So, I would probably die from thirst soon after.
| And those were just racist, greedy white guys. |
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It depends on the era - slavery has actually gotten worse as time has gone on. During the classical period, being a slave wasn't as bad as 19th century America. Greco-Roman slaves were paid and they could earn enough to buy their freedom. (The similarity to modern wage slavery employment is striking.) Many slaves were learned men whose main role was to mentor a family's children, and many wrote about how they loved the families they belonged to. There are a few who are famous to this day, such as Epictetus, a Stoic philosopher and crippled slave. It's believed that Aesop (of Aesop's Fables) was a Greek slave. Mesoamerican slavery was similar although slaves were sometimes ritually sacrificed.
I would prefer be a slave to a Roman, rather than American, family.
I would prefer be a slave to a Roman, rather than American, family.
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closed account (EwCjE3v7)
What I dont get is, why islam gets judged on a few muslim acts. Christians have done wrong to right?
@giblit, at the time I was writing that, I figured someone would call me out on me referring to just one point of time - 1800s USA, but when I went to say that, I had that time on my mind, because, that is what most people (at least people I know) think of when they here the word "slave".
@frozen1, that is because major Christians think their religion is perfect and purposely forget about the whole "Crusades" thing, and when Constantine was the new Emperor of the Roman Empire, a reason of conquering all of the world to the Romans was because of religious heretics. Christians overlook that - or teach a different way of it - much alike Germans teach a different way of WW2 or UK teaches a different way of the American Revolution.
Islam, however, has been striking the news a lot recently because of all the radical Muslims that have sprung up in the last several decades. It is hard to overlook that because it is going on right now, and not 1000 years ago.
@frozen1, that is because major Christians think their religion is perfect and purposely forget about the whole "Crusades" thing, and when Constantine was the new Emperor of the Roman Empire, a reason of conquering all of the world to the Romans was because of religious heretics. Christians overlook that - or teach a different way of it - much alike Germans teach a different way of WW2 or UK teaches a different way of the American Revolution.
Islam, however, has been striking the news a lot recently because of all the radical Muslims that have sprung up in the last several decades. It is hard to overlook that because it is going on right now, and not 1000 years ago.
| Alright thanks, but you cant always trust the media |
Are you suggesting that the videos of extremists beheading people are fake?
Or that the ISIS uprising in Iraq/Syria is not really happening?
closed account (3hM2Nwbp)
Honestly the media should be charged with helping ISIS. They're the group's #2 supporter short of the internet.
| Honestly the media should be charged with helping ISIS. They're the group's #2 supporter short of the internet. |
Ehh... I sort of see what Luc Lieber is saying. ISIS is a terrorist group, and terrorists (according to the definition) try to cause terror. With the media acting all serious and freaked out, the terrorists are doing their job. So they will persist.
Anyone see what I'm saying?
Anyone see what I'm saying?
So what's the alternative.... no press coverage at all? We should all just remain ignorant of world events?
| Honestly the media should be charged with helping ISIS. They're the group's #2 supporter short of the internet. |
Ridiculous. Where the media has shirked its responsibility is in its kid-gloves treatment of Islamic extremism. Can we not compare and contrast the ideas of Islam with those of the West? I believe that our natural rights we've claimed for ourselves are more legitimate than the authority from which Islam claims to originate. And before we go off claiming that this is just a few bad apples, we should ask ourselves if the bad apples happen to be the most pious ones. To say that they misinterpret Islam is to gloss over the fact that Islam is their primary unifying creed and motivator, and thus Islam itself deserves to be taken under a critical and skeptical eye.
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@ booradley60: The problem with that approach, other then the obvious sketchy overtone, is that it ignores the fact that every agency in the world has a finite amount of resources and so they cannot be everywhere watching every person at once. Let's say, for the sake of argument, that we do vilify every follower of Islam. The truth is that a sizable number of them are not a threat, have never been a threat and will never become a threat. Now we're wasting resources on people who don't matter and we're possible letting the dangerous ones get away. Why? Just because you don't want to bother looking to see who your real enemy is? What's more is that once the public perception of the group has shifted into believing that everyone of them is guilty, all of the innocent ones become patsies. After all, why would we keep looking for the terrorist when the guy down the street has already been trialed and convicted of the crime? You have this idea that the terrorists are using Islam as a means to justify their actions when in reality they are using it as a side show to distract you from who they really are and to recruit others to their cause. The only underlying difference between these guys and the domestic terrorists we saw in the 90's is their physical location.
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| obvious sketchy overtone |
And what overtone is that? That the belief system may be flawed?
| that we do vilify every follower of Islam |
Stop confusing the idea with the people. Islam fully deserves earnest criticism as an idea. I claim my right to criticize an idea without fear of injury or reprisal just as much as I claim that Muslims have the same right to criticize my ideas and defend theirs. Obviously, this includes being against the premise of your savage thought-experiment that entertains rounding up Muslims like Japanese-Americans in WWII.
| You have this idea that the terrorists are using Islam as a means to justify their actions when in reality they are using it as a side show to distract you from who they really are and to recruit others to their cause. |
So you're arguing that this is a few cynical opportunists hijacking this idea structure in order to recruit lots of patsies and convince them to cut people's heads off? Because they don't like the American government? What makes the religion such a good vehicle to gather recruits? I don't see anyone using Thomas Paine's writings as justification for conquest and terror.
| The only underlying difference between these guys and the domestic terrorists we saw in the 90's is their physical location. |
Sure... if you ignore their numbers, their weaponry, their stated goals, their motivating principles, the resources they control, the body count, the methods they employ, etc.
| Stop confusing the idea with the people. |
I'm not confusing the people with the idea, I'm referring to the people who follow the idea. Islam is not a race, it is a religion.
| So you're arguing that this is a few cynical opportunists hijacking this idea structure in order to recruit lots of patsies and convince them to cut people's heads off? Because they don't like the American government? |
Yes actually, a cult is a cult no matter where in the world you find it. They are taking the followers of an idea and they leveraging those peoples faith in that idea in order to exert control over them. You could use anything really, countries use nationalism and gangs have been known to use what street or neighborhood you grew up in\on in order to bestow the idea that "We are different from them, so you should follow me".
| What makes the religion such a good vehicle to gather recruits? |
Do you know how old that question is? Or were you quoting someone and, being the bonehead that I am, I just missed it?
| Sure... if you ignore their numbers, their weaponry, their stated goals, their motivating principles, the resources they control, the body count, the methods they employ, etc. |
Their numbers are due to the relative isolation that these people live in from one and other. Their equipment is mostly from the various proxy wars they have been a part of, but in reality isn't that much more advanced then what was found in Waco or Ruby Ridge. Everything else is simply due to the FBI and BATF being better trained more effective then whatever they have over there.
closed account (EwCjE3v7)
| Are you suggesting that the videos of extremists beheading people are fake? Or that the ISIS uprising in Iraq/Syria is not really happening? |
Not at all
closed account (3hM2Nwbp)
All that I'm saying is that the more coverage and attention the group gets, the more power and confidence they also gain. They are operating in recruiting mode and obviously the media is doing a damn fine job advertising for them. Now all the crazies out there that want their 15 minutes of fame just need to find someone to behead on video and the news will glorify them in their own minds. The same goes for school shootings / stabbings / stranglings... Oh, and I just realized...the North American Beaver had a higher body count than ISIS on US soil. What a notorious little critter.
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