Ive seen footage of american police, whats going on in america??
Race is a ridiculously high factor. I'm an immigrant from Canada living (was, but now in college elsewhere) in Arizona. Can't even count the number of times where I've watched people be racially profiled, and have the exact opposite happen to me- hell, my mother was actually doing work and ended up at a check station where they, despite being legally required to verify citizenship, didn't even ask.
So yes, race is a huge factor. Doesn't even matter what the situation is- something as simple as driving can get attention depending on race. I've seen it enough times to know.
So yes, race is a huge factor. Doesn't even matter what the situation is- something as simple as driving can get attention depending on race. I've seen it enough times to know.
Race is a factor (that in no way is saying the cop or person is racist, but rather they are trying to paint them as racist), it is the card every news outlet and pr oriented person plays when a cop or person kills another person of a different race. They played the race card in the Zimmerman/Martin murder case, Boston bomber being killed, and in the Ferguson incident.
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I'm just concerned with the constant white vs black thing.
In my opinion, a large portion of the young African American population are being lead and taught by bad leaders and role models. They are being fooled and mislead and ultimately indirectly oppressed by the creation of an oppressive culture which popularizes killing, stealing, drug use, pimping, greed, selfishness, womanizing, discourages taking care of a family, getting a real job, all the while convincing people they are the victims.
The culture is such that kids are conditioned to be future-less, violent thugs. And this is a big reason why racial profiling is so prevalent in the first place.
The media latches onto these stories where they can make a bunch of money by painting a white's oppressing black's story, even when it doesn't really make a lot of sense, and then race relations becomes the scapegoat in a problem that has little to do with it in reality.
I'm not saying that racism doesn't exist, just that the current real root of the problem is not racism; although increased racism is a by product of it. And the white vs black attitude that people are being conditioned to be obsessed with only makes it worse. It's a scapegoat which allows a person to believe that the responses they get from people are due to their skin color, and not the way they act, what they do, and how they present themselves. Instead of realizing the truth and trying to solve the problem, people can blame others and just give up.
I do think that cops need to be held more accountable for what they do though. And I don't understand why they need to use lead bullets in these situations. Surely something exists, or can be invented that gives them the power to easily disable a threat without lethal force.
In my opinion, a large portion of the young African American population are being lead and taught by bad leaders and role models. They are being fooled and mislead and ultimately indirectly oppressed by the creation of an oppressive culture which popularizes killing, stealing, drug use, pimping, greed, selfishness, womanizing, discourages taking care of a family, getting a real job, all the while convincing people they are the victims.
The culture is such that kids are conditioned to be future-less, violent thugs. And this is a big reason why racial profiling is so prevalent in the first place.
The media latches onto these stories where they can make a bunch of money by painting a white's oppressing black's story, even when it doesn't really make a lot of sense, and then race relations becomes the scapegoat in a problem that has little to do with it in reality.
I'm not saying that racism doesn't exist, just that the current real root of the problem is not racism; although increased racism is a by product of it. And the white vs black attitude that people are being conditioned to be obsessed with only makes it worse. It's a scapegoat which allows a person to believe that the responses they get from people are due to their skin color, and not the way they act, what they do, and how they present themselves. Instead of realizing the truth and trying to solve the problem, people can blame others and just give up.
I do think that cops need to be held more accountable for what they do though. And I don't understand why they need to use lead bullets in these situations. Surely something exists, or can be invented that gives them the power to easily disable a threat without lethal force.
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| htirwin wrote: |
|---|
| The culture is such that kids are conditioned to be future-less, violent thugs. And this is a big reason why racial profiling is so prevalent in the first place. |
I think this is less of a 'black' thing and more of a 'poor' thing. I think if there wasn't such a massive wealth gap in the country, and if we had better social programs which reached out to low income families... then this would be much less of a problem.
It just so happens that black people tend to be poor -- partly because of systemic racism.
| I'm not saying that racism doesn't exist, just that the current real root of the problem is not racism; although increased racism is a by product of it. |
I agree completely.
| It's a scapegoat which allows a person to believe that the responses they get from people are due to their skin color, and not the way they act, what they do, and how they present themselves. Instead of realizing the truth and trying to solve the problem, people can blame others and just give up. |
Well that's the thing... it's not a scapegoat... it's a reality. Black people do get treated differently. Regardless of what they do, how they act, and how they present themselves.
Take a look at the bike theft video I linked before:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ge7i60GuNRg
White kid, black kid.... both doing the exact same thing... wearing the same clothes... and people lash out against the black kid while they give the white kid a pass.
And yeah I agree it's not an excuse to just 'give up' and blame others for your life... but it's certainly real. And it's certainly something that should be brought to everyone's attention... and it's certainly something that should be made a big deal.
I mean despite all the media attention, and how often it's brought up... and all the statistical and anecdotal evidence.... you still have millions of people who are convinced racism isn't a problem. Look at Luc Leiber's posts in this thread -- he's convinced race has literally nothing to do with it. He's not alone. His views aren't even uncommon.
| I do think that cops need to be held more accountable for what they do though |
YES. Cops need to wear cameras at all times when on duty. I mentioned this before, but I'll mention it again. This alone would solve so many problems.
| And I don't understand why they need to use lead bullets in these situations. Surely something exists, or can be invented that gives them the power to easily disable a threat without lethal force. |
Tazers have some serious limitations -- you have to be within 35 feet, you get one shot (can't miss), and it only causes a temporary loss of muscle control. There is no way to guarantee the suspect will drop his weapon during the effects --- and worse, there's no way to guarantee that tazing him will not cause him to fire if his finger is already on the trigger.
As unfortunate as it is... when a cop is facing someone with a deadly weapon... it's a life and death situation not only for the suspect, but also for the police. They should be able to use whatever tools they can in order to defend themselves.
I don't think we should start taking away their guns or telling them they can't use them. That would just make an already difficult and dangerous job even more so. We just need to make them accountable so that when the power they are given is abused we have the means to respond.
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The most shocking thing about the video plus a lot of other videos caught on camera and out there on you tube is that most of times the police get away scott free with shooting people in the head while theyre handcuffed or clearly not a threat, like they are a safe distance away.
its odd that a street execution is then later doubted because people simply over complicate the most basic obvious truths with discussion and wierd PR.
just take Gaza; videos of soldiers executing injured people or articles about children being bullied by soldiers with comments under them stating that Israel is defending itself... I simply cannot believe just how over complicated people get about simple injustices and corrupt systems that are repeatedly repeating them.
There's something about PR and the internet that has befogged humanity; I really want to get to the bottom of what imt rying to express and its cause.
its odd that a street execution is then later doubted because people simply over complicate the most basic obvious truths with discussion and wierd PR.
just take Gaza; videos of soldiers executing injured people or articles about children being bullied by soldiers with comments under them stating that Israel is defending itself... I simply cannot believe just how over complicated people get about simple injustices and corrupt systems that are repeatedly repeating them.
There's something about PR and the internet that has befogged humanity; I really want to get to the bottom of what imt rying to express and its cause.
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@ Luc Lieber, maybe Nazi was too strong of a word to use, but you show the same "mindset". If a person does not fit your ideal, there is something wrong with them. By "sketchy surroundings" I assume you mean poor neighborhood. Right there you already have a preconceived thought that everyone below a certain income is more likely to be a trouble maker. Maybe a majority of the "bad element" dresses a certain way, but that is hardly any more of a deciding factor. In the same way that if someone dresses differently in a "respectable" neighborhood would stand out, so would someone dressing differently in the "sketchy surroundings".
The problem is where cops have the same mindset as you and they initiate the problems. As I said in one of my stories, I was singled out in a line of traffic and searched for no reason other than a preconceived idea. I was minding my own business and courteous to the officer even after what was essentially an illegal search.
Non criminals do not deserve to be harassed by law enforcement because of preconceived ideas either.
| Don't screw around with cops and you have no problems. |
The problem is where cops have the same mindset as you and they initiate the problems. As I said in one of my stories, I was singled out in a line of traffic and searched for no reason other than a preconceived idea. I was minding my own business and courteous to the officer even after what was essentially an illegal search.
| Criminals don't deserve to get pampered by law enforcement. |
Non criminals do not deserve to be harassed by law enforcement because of preconceived ideas either.
| admkrk wrote: |
|---|
| Right there you already have a preconceived thought that everyone below a certain income is more likely to be a trouble maker. |
If that is true, then I'm living proof his ideals are wrong. My father was killed when I was 9, I lived in a poor neighborhood until I was a senior in high school (~13 years). The last house I lived in before moving out of the neighborhood was right down the street from a family that was known drug users and dealers. Had a cousin live across the street that always had parties with alcohol and drugs. It was so bad that the police had patrols day and night. I was never a trouble maker, quite the opposite actually, as I was the quiet kid that kept to himself.
A friend of mine talked me into going to my 8th grade dance, the whole dance I sat at the top row of bleachers the entire night. In school I was made fun of for my interests in reading, writing, drawing, video games, comic books, and programming. Could say I had the last laugh, well not really as I don't have a job dealing with any of those interests.
My point is that I am the spitting image of what he says a trouble maker comes from, but instead I'm more closer to the stereotype of what a programmer looks like (well minus that I'm not living in my mom's basement).
In other Ferguson news:
https://twitter.com/WesleyLowery/status/503362482883538945
https://twitter.com/WesleyLowery/status/503362482883538945
| At one point tonight, Michael Brown protesters chanted "hands up, don't shoot!" Darren Wilson supporters responded: "Shoot! Shoot! Shoot!" |
@BHX, As a kid I was about the exact opposite of you. My family was fairly well off although most of my friends were not so lucky. I would probably have been at your cousin's house for the parties. :-) School was of no interest to me and I only showed up for shop for a year or two which is why it took me an extra year to graduate high school. Back in March I graduated college with a two year degree a week or two after I turned 50. I used to work with race horses and recently found a win picture with me in it from 25 years ago. Except for having a full beard now (I used to just have big sideburns) and it being a bit on the grey side I do not look or dress much different. I outgrew drugs long ago although I do still enjoy a few beers in the evenings. My house is not much, but it is payed for.
My point is that I am, literally, the spitting image of what he says a trouble maker looks like, but nothing could be farther from the truth.
My point is that I am, literally, the spitting image of what he says a trouble maker looks like, but nothing could be farther from the truth.
Another interesting article showing not only how racist law enforcement is... but just how much of a horrible idea this "open carry" crap is:
http://www.theroot.com/articles/politics/2014/08/john_crawford_shooting_open_carry_for_whites_open_season_on_blacks.html
http://www.theroot.com/articles/politics/2014/08/john_crawford_shooting_open_carry_for_whites_open_season_on_blacks.html
I don't know if anyone still is interested, but this video is pretty upsetting:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWH578nAasM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWH578nAasM
Another one:
http://7online.com/archive/9440401/
Fortunately, the cop car dash cap cleared the poor guy, and the cops actually got indicted.
ALL COPS NEED TO BE VIDEOED ALL THE TIME
http://7online.com/archive/9440401/
Fortunately, the cop car dash cap cleared the poor guy, and the cops actually got indicted.
ALL COPS NEED TO BE VIDEOED ALL THE TIME
You're just cherry picking crap.
Shall we pay more in taxes or cut back on something like education? Anyways if you do this where is the limit to stop? You might as well strap a video camera on everyone and make our government a dictatorship.
| ALL COPS NEED TO BE VIDEOED ALL THE TIME |
| You're just cherry picking crap. |
Of course I am. But there are a lot of cherries to pick from.
The point is... if this many stories make the news, imagine how many don't. This isn't an uncommon occurrance.
| Shall we pay more in taxes or cut back on something like education? |
Yes. How about we cut our overbloated military budget? Instead of sending surplus tanks and assault gear to police that don't need that shit... keep it in the military and instead give the police cameras.
| Anyways if you do this where is the limit to stop? |
Don't try to slippery slope this. That's stupid.
Police are in the ultimate position of authority. They have the ability to detain, shoot, and beat people on the street, and the only people they have to answer to are themselves.
The people need to police the police. We can't do that if there are no repercussions for their actions.
| You might as well strap a video camera on everyone and make our government a dictatorship. |
A dictatorship is when innocent people get arrested and they have no recourse. Putting cameras on police is a step at fighting dictatorship, not furthering it.
What's more... on-body cameras have already been proven effective. I linked this earlier in the thread:
http://online.wsj.com/articles/what-happens-when-police-officers-wear-body-cameras-1408320244
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Cherry picking or not a lot of these incidents have made other police departments pay to get car cams and after the Furgeson incident a tech company paid for the police department to have the officer cams. I think if having this tech will prevent this sort of fiasco then I'd say put all tax payer's money to this effort.
Have you seen the state of the education in this country? Believe me, no one would notice if there were more cutbacks.
Better to get it all in place now rather than later when there is a mass murder by cops and it is their word against the survivors. People have demanded a system like Amber Alert for years and didn't finally put it in place until after Amber was kidnapped and killed (the killer was never found). Same with the bullying laws being fought for now, they weren't taken serious until kids committed suicide due to bullying. Seems everyone always blows off things as not needed until that event that they think will never happens ends up happening.
| giblit wrote: |
|---|
| Shall we pay more in taxes or cut back on something like education? |
Have you seen the state of the education in this country? Believe me, no one would notice if there were more cutbacks.
Better to get it all in place now rather than later when there is a mass murder by cops and it is their word against the survivors. People have demanded a system like Amber Alert for years and didn't finally put it in place until after Amber was kidnapped and killed (the killer was never found). Same with the bullying laws being fought for now, they weren't taken serious until kids committed suicide due to bullying. Seems everyone always blows off things as not needed until that event that they think will never happens ends up happening.
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| I don't know if anyone still is interested, but this video is pretty upsetting: |
To be honest, I found the next video you posted more upsetting. It clearly shows that the officers thought that by shouting "stop resisting" and "stop trying to get my gun" they could distract a viewer from what was really happening and almost gives a premeditated feel to what was happening.
I have to agree, seeing the guy complying with them and them beating the hell out of him for no reason is a lot more disturbing than just a 5 minute video that goes to just audio halfway through. The thing with the first video, since it goes dark and stays only audio, people can lull themselves into a false security by thinking he doctored the audio to make it more dramatic. I've noticed that is how a lot of the mindsets are for people, they make excuses to themselves to dull the truth and make it acceptable to their senses. All these atrocities should have never happened, but is a shining beacon that something needs to be done.
There's another one that I don't think I mentioned in here.
A man was fatally shot by a police in a store because he was holding a toy rifle that he was buying from that store.
The worse part? It was an open carry state. So even if the police thought it was a real gun, it would have been perfectly legal for him to have it.
Take a wild guess whether he was white or black.
Mobs of white people walking down the street with real & dangerous guns. No problem.
One black guy buying a toy gun in a store? Shoot him dead.
And people still think race isn't an issue.
A man was fatally shot by a police in a store because he was holding a toy rifle that he was buying from that store.
The worse part? It was an open carry state. So even if the police thought it was a real gun, it would have been perfectly legal for him to have it.
Take a wild guess whether he was white or black.
Mobs of white people walking down the street with real & dangerous guns. No problem.
One black guy buying a toy gun in a store? Shoot him dead.
And people still think race isn't an issue.
What is FOX news doing with their angle on Ferguson?
what's the motive for their chosen bias? russel brand exposes the specific bias here:
http://educateinspirechange.org/alternative-news/fox-news-five-attack-russell-brand-response-priceless/
what's the motive for their chosen bias? russel brand exposes the specific bias here:
http://educateinspirechange.org/alternative-news/fox-news-five-attack-russell-brand-response-priceless/