Ive seen footage of american police, whats going on in america??
@Disch,
There are more than half a million police. They have very difficult jobs, in which they deal with the worst parts of society. Is there a problem with some of them? Yes, but the overall percentages are very low.
Regarding Ferguson, it's just a crappy situation, but if we're being honest, the black on black crime is a WAY bigger issue than white/white cop on black, but the only difference is that you wouldn't really know that if you watched the news.
There are more than half a million police. They have very difficult jobs, in which they deal with the worst parts of society. Is there a problem with some of them? Yes, but the overall percentages are very low.
Regarding Ferguson, it's just a crappy situation, but if we're being honest, the black on black crime is a WAY bigger issue than white/white cop on black, but the only difference is that you wouldn't really know that if you watched the news.
| There are more than half a million police. They have very difficult jobs, in which they deal with the worst parts of society. |
I agree completely. My point is that this fact should not give them authority without consequence.
| Is there a problem with some of them? Yes, but the overall percentages are very low. |
Yes, they are definitely in the minority. I do not dispute that. I don't think anyone can really know what the percentages are... and they certainly vary depending on the location (again, Ferguson is likely an extreme example)
I am not trying to send the message that cops are bad, or even that most cops are bad... just that a lot of cops are bad. And the trend that law enforcement is following is only going to worsen that problem with time.
| but if we're being honest, the black on black crime is a WAY bigger issue than white/white cop on black, but the only difference is that you wouldn't really know that if you watched the news. |
Apples and Oranges.
Yes, normal crime is a serious problem and has caused more deaths and more violence than the police. I agree.
The real difference is that the police are trained, are in a position of authority, and seldom have consequences for when they make mistakes -- even when those mistakes can (and do) completely destroy lives.
We obviously have to hold police up to a higher standard than your average Joe. If we didn't... they wouldn't be police... they'd just be some dude with a gun going around telling people what to do.
And, specifically... we need to bring back accountability so that there are consequences for cops who are abusive of their power. If we don't, the problem feeds on itself.
If a black man gets assaulted by another black man... he can (in theory) go to the police.
If a black man gets assaulted by the police... he's fucked. There's no recourse.
This is the frustration that is at the very core of the Ferguson protests. These people see the police as bullies... not as people who are helping keep the peace. It's true that the police may not harass everyone every day --- but it happens a lot. Enough to where the people are fed up and are passionately protesting.
And the police response has just reaffirmed their point... again and again. Destruction of property, arresting journalists, covering for corrupt cops, setting a fucking curfew. The list goes on. It's completely out of control.
My proposal is not to punish police. And not even to make their job harder. It's just to make them accountable. Make them wear cameras when on duty -- that's it. The bad cops will either shape up for fear of being exposed -- or they'll get washed out. And the good cops will be unaffected. It's win/win.
It'll even make the police's job easier in many cases -- I mean actual, recorded footage of crimes and arrests can add to the evidence police can build against criminals.
We need to restore trust between citizens and police. People have to welcome police and cooperate with them -- not fear and antagonize them. Giving the police military gear and not holding them accountable just drives the wedge further. We need to take that wedge out and repair the relationship.
When people trust the police... it's not only better for the people... but it makes it easier for the police to do their job.
I hate to see ramping up of racial tension because of the Ferguson incident. The media fans the flames and escalates the situation because it's good for business.
People are somehow under the impression that if you are white, then all police officers treat you wonderful no matter what you do. It's not true. The fact is that assaulting a police officer is likely to get you killed, no matter who you are.
People are somehow under the impression that if you are white, then all police officers treat you wonderful no matter what you do. It's not true. The fact is that assaulting a police officer is likely to get you killed, no matter who you are.
Racism is a large portion about what's going on in Ferguson... but it's not all it's about. It's unfortunate that the media is playing it up so heavily.
I tend not to watch broadcast media (I don't have a TV) and just read online articles and youtube videos of actual footage from the protests... which might be why my perspective is different from many people.
I tend not to watch broadcast media (I don't have a TV) and just read online articles and youtube videos of actual footage from the protests... which might be why my perspective is different from many people.
| There are people who become police officers who genuinely want to serve and protect. |
No argument with that.
| Again, you can't judge all cops based off a few bad ones. |
Again you can't judge all cops based on a few good ones.
| My proposal is not to punish police. And not even to make their job harder. It's just to make them accountable. |
I think that is all anyone wants. When they keep their actions secret, it is not unreasonable to think of them as the "Secret Police", which helps no one. Parade their efforts in front of the people and they can show they really do do good for everyone. Hide it and all anyone can think of is "what are they hiding".
| admkrk wrote: |
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| Again you can't judge all cops based on a few good ones. |
They are hardly police with all that equipment, I would say they were soldiers now.
How often does a police street execution actually take place, how often do the police get away with it and how often does it spark a riot.
Could a police officer execute a white doctor and get away with it?
How often does a police street execution actually take place, how often do the police get away with it and how often does it spark a riot.
Could a police officer execute a white doctor and get away with it?
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| Me wrote: |
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| Again, you can't judge all cops based off a few bad ones. |
| admkrk wrote: |
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Again you can't judge all cops based on a few good ones. |
<sarcasm>Wait, if we can't judge police based off the bad ones and we can't judge them based off the good ones...that means they are above judgement! The future is here! They are judge, jury, and executioner...is one named Dredd?</sarcasm>
Trust me, there are more good cops than bad cops. Unfortunately, the way everything works, the negatives are remembered more than the positives. People don't trust cops because they always remember the bad stories of the police and clump them all together.
Same with everything, ever noticed all the misguided rants against C++ or any other language is usually the same negative views? Because everyone remembers those, even if they are wrong views.
| I think the "bad" law enforcement would be in the minority. |
Depends on where and who you are. Police also stick together like a gang and the good ones will often "stick up" for the bad ones even knowing it is wrong.
The only police I've personally known have been good people. The handful of times I've dealt with the police (traffic, couple 'real' legal issues) they've all been very professional and generally nice. But as mentioned, it could just be my area has decent police.
| admkrk wrote: |
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| Police also stick together like a gang and the good ones will often "stick up" for the bad ones even knowing it is wrong. |
That is a fallacy. The only police that "stick up" for the bad ones are other bad ones. The officers I know have reported and called out several fellow officers when they have done inappropriate behavior or actions. Just in my hometown, I know several patrolmen, two detectives (from my father's murder case), and a sergeant (formerly a detective, who helped my sister in middle school). In my current town I don't know what their technical ranks are as the all go by 'officer'.
More food for thought.
Again... it's easy for white people to defend cops. But I frequently hear extreme tales from black people:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkPGsKdbYRA
Again... it's easy for white people to defend cops. But I frequently hear extreme tales from black people:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkPGsKdbYRA
You can hear extreme cases from any race. This thread seems like it is more of a white "extra rights" vs minority "less rights" thread now.
| This thread seems like it is more of a white "extra rights" vs minority "less rights" thread now. |
The common term is "white privilege"
NSFW: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CmzT4OV-w0
As with everything there are exceptions. You also seem to have only seen the good side of the police. I have been run out of town (and followed to the county line to make sure I left) because I guess the deputy did not like the way I looked and/or the way I looked for a job. I once spent the night at a friend's house and woke up to find that my truck had been stolen. When the deputy showed up he wanted me and my friend to to take lie detector tests (the person that did steel it abandoned it when he was almost caught pulling a B&E). The deputy did later apologize to my friend, but all he said to me was I didn't have to take the test anymore. I have seen people hit with sticks for no reason other than the officer did not like the answer given to a question.
I have also had run ins with very helpful officers also so I am not trying to paint them all as bad. In my experience it has been maybe 50-50 at best though. I also do not think the violence is especially escalating, just being seen more with virtually everyone having a camera now to document these events and being able to post them on youtube or wherever.
I have also had run ins with very helpful officers also so I am not trying to paint them all as bad. In my experience it has been maybe 50-50 at best though. I also do not think the violence is especially escalating, just being seen more with virtually everyone having a camera now to document these events and being able to post them on youtube or wherever.
If we have only seen the good side maybe you have only seen the bad side? It goes both ways. Anyways you guys all sound like you live in the 8 mile to me or watch too many movies/listen to the media too much.
| If a black man gets assaulted by the police... he's fucked. There's no recourse. |
I don't see how race makes any difference.
@htirwin
I was responding to leo255, who was saying cop on black crime is not as big of a deal as black on black crime.
I was responding to leo255, who was saying cop on black crime is not as big of a deal as black on black crime.
@admkrk
I've had my fair share of run-ins with bad cops, but I've also reported every single one of them. Maybe it is just that I have been taught since I was a child how to handle myself around all cops. Three uncles and their wives were on the force (all retired now) and always drilled into my head the first thing you do before looking a cop in the face is memorize their badge number and name.
Fear is also a key element, so many fear retaliation from the other 'bad' police officers that they keep their mouths shut. I don't have that fear because of how many good cops I do know that would come to my side if I needed them.
I've had my fair share of run-ins with bad cops, but I've also reported every single one of them. Maybe it is just that I have been taught since I was a child how to handle myself around all cops. Three uncles and their wives were on the force (all retired now) and always drilled into my head the first thing you do before looking a cop in the face is memorize their badge number and name.
Fear is also a key element, so many fear retaliation from the other 'bad' police officers that they keep their mouths shut. I don't have that fear because of how many good cops I do know that would come to my side if I needed them.