Social Issues facing near total automation
| That is probably the most insane thing ever to relate a serious problem to a kid's movie |
many kids movies touch on very serious subjects but do it in a subtle way - take Rango for example - essence --> he who controls something as important as water controls everything.
| I didn't say being a bully is human nature, I said using advantages that one possesses to get what they want IS. It is the basics of self-preservation, an instinct shared among animals that puts themselves before others. This "Lets all hold hands and become one" is fantasy. |
back in the day cave man would club cave woman over the head, drag her into his cave and claim her as his thus using his advantages of strength over her to get what he wants.
today we don't tolerate that type of thing anymore - we have surpassed it by putting mechanisms in place to deter such behavior.
so when do we advance society such that we surpass the current state of things.
| back in the day cave man would club cave woman over the head, drag her into his cave and claim her as his thus using his advantages of strength over her to get what he wants. |
You're talking out of your ass. I'm sure it wasn't like that. There's no evidence to support that or even suggest that it might be true.
I mean... they certainly would have been violent situations of rape... but I doubt very much that they would have been the norm.
| Unions anyone |
sure there will be action from them initially, however once people realize that the machines create more than enough for everybody, then the majority's mindset will start to change about why they need to compete against the likes of a machine when they can just claim their share of what the machines produce - totally removing the need for unions.
| SIK wrote: |
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| however once people realize that the machines create more than enough for everybody, then the majority's mindset will start to change about why they need to compete against the likes of a machine when they can just claim their share of what the machines produce |
This can't happen as long as capitalism is embraced. It simply does not allow for this kind of thinking. If you're not working, you're not making money. If you don't have money, you can't get goods. It's the core principle of the entire system.
The only way this can change is to drift towards a more socialistic system. But that relies heavily on government intervention.... and with how corrupt the US government is, it's unlikely to work effectively here even if it does gain traction with the public.
| You're talking out of your ass. I'm sure it wasn't like that. There's no evidence to support that or even suggest that it might be true. |
true - my statement was eluding to the trends of greater injustices committed in the past compared to current times - slavery is one noted historical example.
| The only way this can change is to drift towards a more socialistic system. But that relies heavily on government intervention |
to me this almost equates to the following: if we as a society needs socialism in order to survive then its up to government to decide whether we survive or not.
ie. if government want to kill everybody then they have the power to do so and nobody can stop them regardless of how far they saw it coming.
I disagree - governments and rulers of the past were overthrown by society when they imposed inhumane conditions upon society.
we should also remember that ultimately government is also relying on normal people to do things for them - these people may have families and friends who are also negatively affected by governments actions - what do they do - sabotage the government.
| You're talking out of your ass. I'm sure it wasn't like that. There's no evidence to support that or even suggest that it might be true. |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome#Evolutionary_explanations
While this may not be direct evidence, I wanted to point out that SIK's statement is based on a widely excepted theory.
I've been following this thread for a bit now and I want to start out by saying that personally, I don't think our current system is broken. It is simply outdated and not inline with modern societies needs.
I for one am all for fully automating most industries but I don't think that a pure socialist economy is a necessary change that we should make. Canada had an experiment back in the 70's called "Mincome" which set a certain standard of living for all people without actually requiring them to work. I think this is a move in the right direction because it would dramatically increase the demand in labor by striping out the people who don't want to work without killing them or making them an invalid node in the great economic model. Those of us who want to work, because maybe we want to take two family vacations a year instead of just one, will then be in higher demand for our respective skill set.
If you can't tell by now then I'll just say it; I want to live in a welfare state. I have dealt with far too many useless people in my life who only "work" because they have to in order to maintain a basic level of existence. I would go to bed happy every night if I knew that my tax dollars were paying them to stay home. Why is a 20 min trip to the grocery store allowed to turn into 90 mins just because the person behind the register doesn't want to do their job? If you've read this far then you're thinking "Stop being a jerk Geek, no one is going to work hard for minimum wage". But that is exactly my point, minimum wage is not putting a roof over this persons head. It isn't feeding them and potentially their kids. This person is already collecting hundreds or thousands of dollars in benefits so why the hell can't we just give them that little bit more? The only entity benefiting from this person being here is the store because they don't have to pay this person that much to be there. Don't give me any crap about them working harder if they were paid more, have you ever been to the DMV? If you remove these people from the job market then that job will still need to be done either by a machine that has to be installed and maintained or by a person who is going to demand more because there are now fewer people available to do this job. And that person will be there because they want to work, they would collect the same money that the others are paid to stay home, but they would be getting a paycheck from their job on top of that.
Those of you who actually think that we are overpopulated are so confused I don't even know where to start. My grandfather owns a farm, some years the DoA pays him not to grow crops for reasons ranging from soil conservation to ensuring a certain price floor. Other years he gets paid to destroy the ones he did grow. Why pay someone to destroy something as precious as food you ask? The answer to that one actually impressed me, if you have more food then you can store then you can't just leave it outside. That would give vermin an easily accessible food supply and lead to a population boom. Then by this time next year you have a famine because the 100,000 rats that were born are now eating ALL of your crops. But the over production of crops is necessary in the first place because of predictions of inclement weather. The Department of Agriculture is the one thing that the USA does 100% IMHO, go figure that it is directly related to food.
| if you have more food then you can store then you can't just leave it outside |
that reason is logical and may have been valid in your grand fathers case and others but one needs to examine the state of affairs w.r.t. society and food in order to determine if such a reason is genuine.
given the number of starving people in the world I would say this reason is disingenuous most times.
| I would go to bed happy every night if I knew that my tax dollars were paying them to stay home |
it won't even be a case of your or my tax dollars paying for someone else (as is currently more so now the case in obscure ways) since these people will be payed to stay at home by the machines we put in place - ie there will be no additional effort required besides to keep these machines running and producing enough of what everyone needs to stay at home.
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