Israel
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Are you in support of israel or against it? And why?
Just curious.
I won't criticize your answer
Just curious.
I won't criticize your answer
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Not really except bombing and that American pacifist video but I'm just curious about people's opinions
Absolutly against them, just think of how it all starts, what is there purpose, what they did to Palastinian people, children, women, innocents and the amount of crimes they did against those people and tell me which side you stand with
I feel channel four news uk is the most reliable source so far, If you watch the second video you can see how Israel news correspondents are biased and bent on twisting the truth, you got to then after seeing it consider the way news in america will take their side maybe even twist it further.
I would have believed Hamas gave schoolchildren grenades until I heard this guy say they did http://www.channel4.com/news/at-least-15-die-after-strike-on-un-school-in-gaza
I would have believed Hamas gave schoolchildren grenades until I heard this guy say they did http://www.channel4.com/news/at-least-15-die-after-strike-on-un-school-in-gaza
closed account (z05DSL3A)
"In war, truth is the first casualty." -- Aeschylus Greek tragic dramatist (525 BC - 456 BC)
This is one of those situations where... well, I can't side on either end. Israel has its killing-of-civilians issue while Palestine has its run-by-Hamas issue. If you work through the history of the whole thing, it does make a bit more sense though.
Also, anyone who thinks that the whole issue with all of this started in the very beginning over religion deserves to be punched squarely in the face. Zionists (Jews who embraced the notion that the Jewish should be moving "back to Jerusalem") purchased significant amounts of land from the Turks who controlled that area. At first it wasn't too big of a deal- the Palestinians had no issue so long as they got to work and earn money. However, with the situation in Russia and Eastern Europe at the time, a large swathe of Jews found themselves without a home- many embraced Zionism and moved to the many newly-established Jewish communities in Israel. As a result, Jewish business owners would hire them over the Palestinian locals, which angered them quite a bit. It is literally a "foreigners taking all of our jobs" issue some 70 years ago that leaves us where we are today. When you realize the complexities of all of that, it becomes very difficult to simply "pick a side." It is picking between two evils, really. If I had to chose one, it would be Israel- for a completely different reason than expected. You see, the government in Israel is starting to lose a strong Jewish majority- as a result, it wouldn't be unreasonable to see a majority-Islamic government in Israel within 50 years or so. I imagine that under that situation, a peaceful coexistence might finally be possible.
However, what mainly needs to be done now is to stop the violence on either side. That is the first priority, above all else.
Also, anyone who thinks that the whole issue with all of this started in the very beginning over religion deserves to be punched squarely in the face. Zionists (Jews who embraced the notion that the Jewish should be moving "back to Jerusalem") purchased significant amounts of land from the Turks who controlled that area. At first it wasn't too big of a deal- the Palestinians had no issue so long as they got to work and earn money. However, with the situation in Russia and Eastern Europe at the time, a large swathe of Jews found themselves without a home- many embraced Zionism and moved to the many newly-established Jewish communities in Israel. As a result, Jewish business owners would hire them over the Palestinian locals, which angered them quite a bit. It is literally a "foreigners taking all of our jobs" issue some 70 years ago that leaves us where we are today. When you realize the complexities of all of that, it becomes very difficult to simply "pick a side." It is picking between two evils, really. If I had to chose one, it would be Israel- for a completely different reason than expected. You see, the government in Israel is starting to lose a strong Jewish majority- as a result, it wouldn't be unreasonable to see a majority-Islamic government in Israel within 50 years or so. I imagine that under that situation, a peaceful coexistence might finally be possible.
However, what mainly needs to be done now is to stop the violence on either side. That is the first priority, above all else.
Thats not quite right Ispil I agree that the conflict is a nationalistic and not religious one however the issue of the land is not as simple as who owned it and sold it, I could sell you Devon, doesn't mean I can legitimately sell it to you.
As for two evils its not a war of sides its about the handling of a situation one Israeli general was calling it a self inflicted genocide! for some reason they cant even consider a diffeerent approach other than feeling like they are forced to kill these human shields
As for two evils its not a war of sides its about the handling of a situation one Israeli general was calling it a self inflicted genocide! for some reason they cant even consider a diffeerent approach other than feeling like they are forced to kill these human shields
Yes, forgot to mention the whole Turks-didn't-really-own-Palestine thing, but anyone with a basic understanding of the Turkish Empire should understand that pretty much everything they controlled was conquered.
As for your other comment, you can't place the blame solely on Israel. After all, Hamas is willing to use its own people as human shields as well- that's not exactly "better" in some way. As for considering a different approach- think about how long they've been at this. It hasn't been just 10 or 20 years; it has been substantially longer. They've certainly tried different methods and seriously entertained the notion of a two-nation state.
What I'm trying to say here is that the blame isn't solely on Israel; they aren't the mean baddies here who are responsible for everything wrong with that situation. To say that is just as bad as saying that they're infallible.
As for your other comment, you can't place the blame solely on Israel. After all, Hamas is willing to use its own people as human shields as well- that's not exactly "better" in some way. As for considering a different approach- think about how long they've been at this. It hasn't been just 10 or 20 years; it has been substantially longer. They've certainly tried different methods and seriously entertained the notion of a two-nation state.
What I'm trying to say here is that the blame isn't solely on Israel; they aren't the mean baddies here who are responsible for everything wrong with that situation. To say that is just as bad as saying that they're infallible.
They are fighting themselves and its a disaster not a war more of an apartheid than a mis diplomacy between two religions.
The whole moderate thing "both sides are as bad" is plainly stupid plus one side is overwhelmingly advanced
people are saying totally irrelevant things, first off is the notion of sides; there is a huge quietness about the reality of Palestine, they are not fundamentalist Muslim violent people they are just being invaded, the point is its being made out to be a religious war when its purely a nationalistic one and and theres so much evidence that soldiers are doing what they always have done when they are bought up to think the palestinians are nothing but animals and they are the rightious with god on their side- theres a video and book being compiled and it has many many people admitting to all the terrible things they had to do to prisoners.
now second off consider this, if you have your resources taken and your friends mistreated and you know the whole world is not oging to understand thanks to huge support and a PR machine painting israel in pretty pictures, and you know that the terms of every ceasefire dont stop your villages being bulldozed and replaced with the invading peoples settlements your either going to peacefuly protest or throw stones
so consider this, if your less thinking dumber contemporaries you went to uni with lived in these conditions and they had the opertunity to lob rockets, would they?
https://www.facebook.com/124563204315456/photos/a.419842611454179.1073741828.124563204315456/557140621057710/?type=1&relevant_count=1
lastly theres a lot of evidence that the idf soldiers commit the ssame kind of war crimes that you would expect of the nazis or taliban but heres just a few snibbets to ruin our day
http://www.addictinginfo.org/2014/07/21/israeli-sniper-caught-on-camera-murdering-palestinian-civilian-searching-rubble-for-relatives/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtVEtKXUVs4
The whole moderate thing "both sides are as bad" is plainly stupid plus one side is overwhelmingly advanced
people are saying totally irrelevant things, first off is the notion of sides; there is a huge quietness about the reality of Palestine, they are not fundamentalist Muslim violent people they are just being invaded, the point is its being made out to be a religious war when its purely a nationalistic one and and theres so much evidence that soldiers are doing what they always have done when they are bought up to think the palestinians are nothing but animals and they are the rightious with god on their side- theres a video and book being compiled and it has many many people admitting to all the terrible things they had to do to prisoners.
now second off consider this, if you have your resources taken and your friends mistreated and you know the whole world is not oging to understand thanks to huge support and a PR machine painting israel in pretty pictures, and you know that the terms of every ceasefire dont stop your villages being bulldozed and replaced with the invading peoples settlements your either going to peacefuly protest or throw stones
so consider this, if your less thinking dumber contemporaries you went to uni with lived in these conditions and they had the opertunity to lob rockets, would they?
https://www.facebook.com/124563204315456/photos/a.419842611454179.1073741828.124563204315456/557140621057710/?type=1&relevant_count=1
lastly theres a lot of evidence that the idf soldiers commit the ssame kind of war crimes that you would expect of the nazis or taliban but heres just a few snibbets to ruin our day
http://www.addictinginfo.org/2014/07/21/israeli-sniper-caught-on-camera-murdering-palestinian-civilian-searching-rubble-for-relatives/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtVEtKXUVs4
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I never said that Hamas "is" Palestine, just that they are enforcing control over the region and changing the circumstances. Again, you go with this whole "there are no sides, Israel is only bad" argument, but you're missing the point.
There are two sides- Israel and Hamas. The Palestinian people aren't on either, and simply are getting screwed by both. Don't argue against Israel, don't argue against Hamas- argue against the inhumanity perpetrated onto the Palestinian people by both groups.
There are two sides- Israel and Hamas. The Palestinian people aren't on either, and simply are getting screwed by both. Don't argue against Israel, don't argue against Hamas- argue against the inhumanity perpetrated onto the Palestinian people by both groups.
I honestly don't know: I've seen the news, but I don't trust them to give me the whole truth (and nothing but the truth). For me to answer this one, I would have to do research on it, and I don't have that much time right now.
I think we should be less concerned with foriegn affairs and more concerned with domestic affairs...
I think we should be less concerned with foriegn affairs and more concerned with domestic affairs...
Israel is so powerful. If they wanted Hamas shut down, it would have happened by now. The damage that Hamas can do to Israel is minimal at best, but Israel can use the attacks as justification to destroy Palistine. So Israel purposfully misses any Hamas targets and attacks civilians. Israel is evil.
Israel is... surprisingly not-powerful, by the way. Its own people are already getting upset over the unnecessary civilian casualties, not to mention the fact that a good portion of the world already dislikes them. Yes, I know, media is biased blah blah blah. I've personally been pulling sources from Al Jazeera, which, if I had to guess, would be more supportive of Palestine than Israel. However, even they recognize that it is usually Hamas who shoots first and refuses to agree to a ceasefire.
Also, it is harder to get rid of an organization like Hamas than you'd think. Sure, they could send in a whole bunch of troops and just kill every single person in Gaza and the West Bank, but... I somehow think that the equivalent of an "ethnic cleansing" would result in a very politically screwed Israel. Hell, that's already happening, both internally and externally- it isn't like the people living in Israel want this.
Also, it is harder to get rid of an organization like Hamas than you'd think. Sure, they could send in a whole bunch of troops and just kill every single person in Gaza and the West Bank, but... I somehow think that the equivalent of an "ethnic cleansing" would result in a very politically screwed Israel. Hell, that's already happening, both internally and externally- it isn't like the people living in Israel want this.
No, a majority want all the Palestinians dead or gone whichever first here
they are eating popcorn and cheering bombs falling;
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/07/13/israel-sderot-gaza_n_5582032.html
Israelis want the Palestinians dead and gone
http://www.addictinginfo.org/2014/07/28/signs-go-up-in-jerusalem-there-are-no-innocents-in-gaza/
Its an apartheid check these info graphics:
http://www.filmsforaction.org/articles/11-images-showing-the-extent-of-israels-palestinian-apartheid/
Here is the IDF's blogpage just read the comments to the articles, A lot of Israelis say some shocking things http://www.idfblog.com/
you will get the Picture, infact anyone sympathetic over there is pretty outnumbered and gets that same treatment the gop might treat someone like michael moore
they are eating popcorn and cheering bombs falling;
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/07/13/israel-sderot-gaza_n_5582032.html
Israelis want the Palestinians dead and gone
http://www.addictinginfo.org/2014/07/28/signs-go-up-in-jerusalem-there-are-no-innocents-in-gaza/
Its an apartheid check these info graphics:
http://www.filmsforaction.org/articles/11-images-showing-the-extent-of-israels-palestinian-apartheid/
Here is the IDF's blogpage just read the comments to the articles, A lot of Israelis say some shocking things http://www.idfblog.com/
you will get the Picture, infact anyone sympathetic over there is pretty outnumbered and gets that same treatment the gop might treat someone like michael moore
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Huffington Post is a very unreasonable source to use if you're looking for validity. So is Addicting Info. Films For Action appears to be an incredibly anti-Israel site from the looks of it, so its validity goes out the window too. And the fourth, again, is just a few people with access to the Internet somehow representing their entire country.
Considering that, literally, all of your sources are horribly unverified and terrible biased, it is hard to give any merit to your argument that "All of Israel wants to commit an ethnic cleansing on Palestine and its people."
Remember, a good portion of the world is still spurred on by antisemitism for its fire against Israel. As for Israel, it isn't necessarily aiming at civilians- Hamas just so happens to be very good at placing itself in positions that would result in civilian casualties. It is a war between a group who demands the eradication of a military organization, and a military organization whose sole tactic for winning is to earn the world's support through the scorn against the opposition. Clearly, it is a working tactic.
Note: Just to make sure I am not being mistaken- I am not saying that Israel is justified, or in the right, or anything else. This is a horrible action on their behalf and in my opinion in the need of severe reprimanding. However, just because Israel is doing bad doesn't mean that Hamas is somehow good. And just because the government of Israel is doing bad doesn't mean that the entirety of the population of Israel wants to eradicate the Palestinian people from the map.
Don't demonize people over their government's action.
Considering that, literally, all of your sources are horribly unverified and terrible biased, it is hard to give any merit to your argument that "All of Israel wants to commit an ethnic cleansing on Palestine and its people."
Remember, a good portion of the world is still spurred on by antisemitism for its fire against Israel. As for Israel, it isn't necessarily aiming at civilians- Hamas just so happens to be very good at placing itself in positions that would result in civilian casualties. It is a war between a group who demands the eradication of a military organization, and a military organization whose sole tactic for winning is to earn the world's support through the scorn against the opposition. Clearly, it is a working tactic.
Note: Just to make sure I am not being mistaken- I am not saying that Israel is justified, or in the right, or anything else. This is a horrible action on their behalf and in my opinion in the need of severe reprimanding. However, just because Israel is doing bad doesn't mean that Hamas is somehow good. And just because the government of Israel is doing bad doesn't mean that the entirety of the population of Israel wants to eradicate the Palestinian people from the map.
Don't demonize people over their government's action.
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A poll conducted by the Israel Democracy Institute at Tel Aviv University has found that just 4% of Jewish Israelis believe excessive force has been used on Gaza, while more then 50% argue not enough.
I think thats very wishful thinking Ispil and I think that you would be too moderate regarding the south african aparthied, its not the governments action its Israels culture, the majority of the people in that country will have opinions that will shock you just like in aparthied south africa!
Its not demonisation, Its the same as the south africans in aparthied south africa, they are the victims of their own culture.
The south africans will have innocently believed terrible things despite being good people simply because thats their culture at the time, remember a majority of people were disgusted with the abolition of the jack crow laws, they thought racial equality was communism!!
I realise that this is not about religion and that people do think it is and they will say 'the jews this' and t'he jews that' when they are actually talking about Israel or its people and this is awful because of this mistake their point may be lost to cries of anti semetism or they will start being anti semetic.
However its not just a case of a few nutters out there and the government being too aggresive there are a huge amount of people out there who hate! its the culture out there and I dont just mean those that believe the state propaganda and who served their two years in the IDF and believe that Israel is supposed to be a jewish state for the jews only, just look at how many people support the settling on palestinian land let alone being the settlers that requires a lot of people, a lot more than the settlers, there really is a culture where people say 'we must drive them into the sea before they drive us into the sea'
Im saying that there really is an apartheid out there just like there was in southafrica and an apartheid requires there to be a culture that hates the palestinians dead and wants them all driven into the sea.
The moderate people who believe that this is out of control are actually a now growing minority.
As for Hamas I really dont get their tactics however my mum said this once
Its hard to find a reliable news source but find the facts in the unreliable news source and study them and their existence criticaly....after all if you ever study english you will learn that every source of information has to start with a bias, im doubting your willingness to think critically because you didnt do that plus your finding excuses to be moderate without any rationale either.
EDIT: in this article by the BBC Israel is being critisized for targeting a shelter that a lot of people said that had civillians in, now I have seen a lot of evidence that proves that the IDF and even gangs of well armed vigilantes target innocents on purpose, now the BBC isnt biased here but can you presume that the IDF deliberatley wanted to kill civillians? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-28558433
what about here that footage of an injured man being finshed off by a sniper what about that ship targeting those four boys on the beach?
The military does kill civillians deliberatley and theres so much solid solid evidence, even recently on cnn of all sources they caught it on camera and still Israeli tried to cover it up.
I think thats very wishful thinking Ispil and I think that you would be too moderate regarding the south african aparthied, its not the governments action its Israels culture, the majority of the people in that country will have opinions that will shock you just like in aparthied south africa!
| Don't demonize people over their government's action. |
Its not demonisation, Its the same as the south africans in aparthied south africa, they are the victims of their own culture.
The south africans will have innocently believed terrible things despite being good people simply because thats their culture at the time, remember a majority of people were disgusted with the abolition of the jack crow laws, they thought racial equality was communism!!
I realise that this is not about religion and that people do think it is and they will say 'the jews this' and t'he jews that' when they are actually talking about Israel or its people and this is awful because of this mistake their point may be lost to cries of anti semetism or they will start being anti semetic.
However its not just a case of a few nutters out there and the government being too aggresive there are a huge amount of people out there who hate! its the culture out there and I dont just mean those that believe the state propaganda and who served their two years in the IDF and believe that Israel is supposed to be a jewish state for the jews only, just look at how many people support the settling on palestinian land let alone being the settlers that requires a lot of people, a lot more than the settlers, there really is a culture where people say 'we must drive them into the sea before they drive us into the sea'
Im saying that there really is an apartheid out there just like there was in southafrica and an apartheid requires there to be a culture that hates the palestinians dead and wants them all driven into the sea.
The moderate people who believe that this is out of control are actually a now growing minority.
As for Hamas I really dont get their tactics however my mum said this once
Palestine has been occupied by Israel since 1948. Under seige for 8 years on a limited import allowance of 1700 calories per day per person so they are hungry. Wells are concreted over, electricity cut at random sometimes for weeks so sewerage cannot be pumped so it runs through the streets, houses and land taken by Israeli settlers, harvests and orchards destroyed, and rthey are shot at random all while the occupying army enable Israeli settlers to use the water supplies and land for their homes and swimming pools. They cannot get to hospitals wirhout going through a check point and without a pass people die on their way. Thousands in peison wirhout yrial.that's just for starters. If you lived there and could lob a rocket, would you? If anyone wants more info, I shall happily provide excellent links. |
Its hard to find a reliable news source but find the facts in the unreliable news source and study them and their existence criticaly....after all if you ever study english you will learn that every source of information has to start with a bias, im doubting your willingness to think critically because you didnt do that plus your finding excuses to be moderate without any rationale either.
EDIT: in this article by the BBC Israel is being critisized for targeting a shelter that a lot of people said that had civillians in, now I have seen a lot of evidence that proves that the IDF and even gangs of well armed vigilantes target innocents on purpose, now the BBC isnt biased here but can you presume that the IDF deliberatley wanted to kill civillians? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-28558433
what about here that footage of an injured man being finshed off by a sniper what about that ship targeting those four boys on the beach?
The military does kill civillians deliberatley and theres so much solid solid evidence, even recently on cnn of all sources they caught it on camera and still Israeli tried to cover it up.
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Yes, I know that the military is doing horrible, including deliberately killing off random people as if for sport. Also, could you link to that study? I'm curious as to how many people voted, how it circulated, et cetera.
As for your opinion about "all Israelis want to kill off Palestine," I would have to ask then- what would you propose?
Also, Hamas is not the Palestinian people- and probably don't have their best interests in mind. It is Hamas, not Palestine, shooting missiles at Israel specifically to kill Israelis and provoke more attacks on Palestine, where they use the locals as a human shield. This really is a case of atrocities on both sides, no matter how you look at it- you can't just blame Israel for everything and keep your fingers in your ears saying that Hamas isn't doing anything wrong. Again, to your apartheid example, it wasn't just a one-sided issue. If you completely blind yourself to the fact that Hamas has been doing nothing but trying to convince that they represent all of Palestine, then kill as many people in Israel as they possibly can. Hamas is making the Palestinian people into the threat in Israel, when really they are the victims.
Again, you can't ignore the fact that this isn't just some out-of-the-blue let's-bomb-Gaza thing going on- missiles are being fired both ways. As for earlier comments, 3 people have been killed by missiles sent from Gaza. However, a good portion of them misfire and land in Gaza, killing more Palestinians- it isn't like Hamas cares. They just want Israel to look bad.
Again, not defending Israel's horrible actions towards Palestine- just trying to show that it isn't like they just "chose" to hate the people- there's circumstances going on here that you refuse to acknowledge.
EDIT: Also, I'd like to thank everyone in this thread for remaining completely calm and civilized during this whole discussion- considering the subject matter, I understand how difficult it can be to talk about one of the worst humanitarian crisis in this decade. I hope that this thread continues to remain calm and collected, and doesn't devolve into what would otherwise be described as a "flame war."
As for your opinion about "all Israelis want to kill off Palestine," I would have to ask then- what would you propose?
Also, Hamas is not the Palestinian people- and probably don't have their best interests in mind. It is Hamas, not Palestine, shooting missiles at Israel specifically to kill Israelis and provoke more attacks on Palestine, where they use the locals as a human shield. This really is a case of atrocities on both sides, no matter how you look at it- you can't just blame Israel for everything and keep your fingers in your ears saying that Hamas isn't doing anything wrong. Again, to your apartheid example, it wasn't just a one-sided issue. If you completely blind yourself to the fact that Hamas has been doing nothing but trying to convince that they represent all of Palestine, then kill as many people in Israel as they possibly can. Hamas is making the Palestinian people into the threat in Israel, when really they are the victims.
Again, you can't ignore the fact that this isn't just some out-of-the-blue let's-bomb-Gaza thing going on- missiles are being fired both ways. As for earlier comments, 3 people have been killed by missiles sent from Gaza. However, a good portion of them misfire and land in Gaza, killing more Palestinians- it isn't like Hamas cares. They just want Israel to look bad.
Again, not defending Israel's horrible actions towards Palestine- just trying to show that it isn't like they just "chose" to hate the people- there's circumstances going on here that you refuse to acknowledge.
EDIT: Also, I'd like to thank everyone in this thread for remaining completely calm and civilized during this whole discussion- considering the subject matter, I understand how difficult it can be to talk about one of the worst humanitarian crisis in this decade. I hope that this thread continues to remain calm and collected, and doesn't devolve into what would otherwise be described as a "flame war."
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EDIT: Here is your reference to that poll http://en.idi.org.il/media/3657334/Peace_Index_July_-2014-Eng.pdf
As for a solution I support Israel giving up on being a jewish state, i think thats appaling however I do think the country has a right to exist simply because now it does, I jsut think that displacing one people to make way for another post wars is just asking for a worldwide nuclear holocaust due to knock on events, if we got nukes and advanced civilisations are allowed to be assholes were all dead :/
Any way back on topic...
Im sure hamas are mindless terrorists but not as much to the Palestinians as to the Israelis of course the palestinians are seeing the IDF as terrorists as well which is a thing that bothers me;
If someone justifies the actions of hamas as desperate and if they say they can see why they do what they do then they may be accused of justifying or sympathising with terrorism, fox news did it to this guy they invited on but they obviously had no intention of listening to him however the problem with this is how is what the IDF doing is not terrorism?
This is where I find the whole world being completley biased because hamas will take hostages where as the IDF will take prisoners, and this is on american and UK news, also stupid things like hamas started the war, this is total bunk, the war has a history dating back to the arival of an awful lot of zionists and desperate jewish settlers and its been an eye for an eye since
Israel actually funded the founding of hamas in order to undermine the PLO also whats forcing the IDF to pound those human shields with missiles back? one general said it was like a self imposed genocide!! I was shocked that he recognised it as a terrible thing, he coulda changed his tactics but I think they suited their strategy fine too.
I actually think Hamas is either stupid or an Israeli infiltration, they seem to be keen on comiting suicide, actually just remembered thats their bag anyway :/
The son of the leader of Hamas has wrote a book criticising hamas its called 'son of hamas'
Dont get me wrong either im not picking sides its just that people are being moderate but without reason, you really have to consider the disproportion of the technologies of the soldiers, the IDF really are doing what the redcoats did to the zulus on a technological level, they are machine gunning down natives who are armed with pointy fruit.
I also understand that a technologically advanced palestine with power may well have shown a lot less restraint but Iwould have expected a people escaping persecution from a holocost not to want to create a strong nation for a chosen people, you would have thought that they would have felt that it was a wee bit too Nazish.
EDIT: this in support of my last post, just trying to find that study https://storify.com/davidsheen/israeli-army-the-next-generation
d/
EDIT:Yeah I agree, well done people for being grown up there may be even unbiased media if people are mature enough to listen.
As for a solution I support Israel giving up on being a jewish state, i think thats appaling however I do think the country has a right to exist simply because now it does, I jsut think that displacing one people to make way for another post wars is just asking for a worldwide nuclear holocaust due to knock on events, if we got nukes and advanced civilisations are allowed to be assholes were all dead :/
Any way back on topic...
Im sure hamas are mindless terrorists but not as much to the Palestinians as to the Israelis of course the palestinians are seeing the IDF as terrorists as well which is a thing that bothers me;
If someone justifies the actions of hamas as desperate and if they say they can see why they do what they do then they may be accused of justifying or sympathising with terrorism, fox news did it to this guy they invited on but they obviously had no intention of listening to him however the problem with this is how is what the IDF doing is not terrorism?
This is where I find the whole world being completley biased because hamas will take hostages where as the IDF will take prisoners, and this is on american and UK news, also stupid things like hamas started the war, this is total bunk, the war has a history dating back to the arival of an awful lot of zionists and desperate jewish settlers and its been an eye for an eye since
Israel actually funded the founding of hamas in order to undermine the PLO also whats forcing the IDF to pound those human shields with missiles back? one general said it was like a self imposed genocide!! I was shocked that he recognised it as a terrible thing, he coulda changed his tactics but I think they suited their strategy fine too.
I actually think Hamas is either stupid or an Israeli infiltration, they seem to be keen on comiting suicide, actually just remembered thats their bag anyway :/
The son of the leader of Hamas has wrote a book criticising hamas its called 'son of hamas'
Dont get me wrong either im not picking sides its just that people are being moderate but without reason, you really have to consider the disproportion of the technologies of the soldiers, the IDF really are doing what the redcoats did to the zulus on a technological level, they are machine gunning down natives who are armed with pointy fruit.
I also understand that a technologically advanced palestine with power may well have shown a lot less restraint but Iwould have expected a people escaping persecution from a holocost not to want to create a strong nation for a chosen people, you would have thought that they would have felt that it was a wee bit too Nazish.
EDIT: this in support of my last post, just trying to find that study https://storify.com/davidsheen/israeli-army-the-next-generation
d/
EDIT:Yeah I agree, well done people for being grown up there may be even unbiased media if people are mature enough to listen.
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