What would your life be without Programming
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| helios wrote: |
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| If I may, I think this is a little misguided. I was introduced to programming more or less by chance, and I think I would have otherwise never stumbled upon it on my own. At least show him the basics and let him decide if he wants to stick with it or not. |
I sit by him every day programming. He sees me doing it all the time so he knows what it is, but as far as he cares a computer is just for watching Minecraft and cartoons on.
| OrionMaster wrote: |
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| Why not introduce it could get him interested and maybe even pursue it in future and currently with the job industry its a good idea if he could start now? Feel free to prove me wrong |
As stated above, he sits by me the whole day while I'm doing it. He would rather watch Minecraft videos, cartoons, or play the PS3 than figure out what I'm doing. Now, if the day comes he shows interest in what I'm doing to create anything then I will show him, but otherwise I consider that forcing my interest on him and I'm not that kind of parent. As of right now, he likes video games and he hates playing them on anything other than the PS3.
Although I've always had a fair passion for maths and problem solving, learning to program has made me think about both in such different ways and helped me develop a new way to tackle problems that I face (mostly just in maths and programming).
It's made me much more inquisitive about more complex aspects of mathematics and I'm getting further into the complexities of computing and programming all the time.
If I didn't start leaning to program I'd have a lot less to occupy my time with, and potentially may not be doing as well in my mathematics course (who knows, it's easily possible though). I have actually been introducing a couple of my friends into the wonderful world of C/C++ and I'm slowly building a much nerdier friendship group... (And we were pretty damn nerdy too start off with, with the science/anime/maths/japanese geeks =D )
It's made me much more inquisitive about more complex aspects of mathematics and I'm getting further into the complexities of computing and programming all the time.
If I didn't start leaning to program I'd have a lot less to occupy my time with, and potentially may not be doing as well in my mathematics course (who knows, it's easily possible though). I have actually been introducing a couple of my friends into the wonderful world of C/C++ and I'm slowly building a much nerdier friendship group... (And we were pretty damn nerdy too start off with, with the science/anime/maths/japanese geeks =D )
It doesn't matter whether he's curious about it. What matters is whether he might enjoy doing it, which he'll never find out unless he tries it. If he's not curious, all the more reason to give him a little push.
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@helios
I disagree because I've seen first hand what can happen if you push something on a child if they don't want to do it.
I disagree because I've seen first hand what can happen if you push something on a child if they don't want to do it.
No, my nephew wanted to play football because he was curious about it. His dad let him sign up and he enjoyed playing it. His dad had helios' point of view about giving him a little push and signed him up for other sports to try and see if he enjoys it (football, baseball, basketball, soccer). Now my nephew hates playing all sports and has purposely played bad so the coach would bench him in each sport. Now my brother-in-law blindly makes him keep playing, hoping it is a phase he grows out of and likes sports again (mind you this phase is in its third year now).
Also personal experiences makes me know first hand. Seeing my son's reaction to things he has to do and seeing the withdraw when we make him do it also supports my belief of not teaching him unless he shows interest in programming.
My nephew showed interest in programming until I started showing him the basics. He said it was too confusing and went back to play GTA5.
Also personal experiences makes me know first hand. Seeing my son's reaction to things he has to do and seeing the withdraw when we make him do it also supports my belief of not teaching him unless he shows interest in programming.
My nephew showed interest in programming until I started showing him the basics. He said it was too confusing and went back to play GTA5.
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| His dad let him sign up and he enjoyed playing it. His dad had helios' point of view about giving him a little push and signed him up for other sports to try and see if he enjoys it (football, baseball, basketball, soccer). Now my nephew hates playing all sports |
That he was also signed up for other sports isn't necessarily related to his posterior dislike of football, at least from what you've said.
| has purposely played bad so the coach would bench him in each sport. Now my brother-in-law blindly makes him keep playing |
Surely you've had interest in something and disliked it when you actually tried it?
There's a difference between forcing him to do things and encouraging him to do things. Hell, I wish I had either to be honest.
There's a difference between forcing him to do things and encouraging him to do things. Hell, I wish I had either to be honest.
You misread it. He was curious about football, his dad signed him up, and he did enjoy it. He enjoyed it up until his dad gave him a "little push" into other sports he didn't care. That push made him hate all sports. His acting of playing bad was his way of trying to get his dad to stop making him play sports (which so far hasn't worked).
Before I even go any further with this discussion, I have to ask. Do you have any kids that are out of diapers? Reason I ask, is because your ideals sound like that same ideals I get from local people who have no kids. Drives me up the wall when a person with no kids tries to tell me how I should interact with mine because I too had those ideals until I became a parent and found they were complete bs.
That is my point though. My son is showing no interest in programming so I'm not going to push it on him blindly hoping he likes it. If he shows interest in it then I will encourage him to pursue it (and I have tons of physical and ebooks for him to use and tutorials to learn from while I help him learn). It's not like he doesn't get exposed to it already seeing as I've been doing it for the whole 9 years he has been alive and has played several things I've made for him (but as pointed out he doesn't care for using anything outside a PS3 like controller).
Before I even go any further with this discussion, I have to ask. Do you have any kids that are out of diapers? Reason I ask, is because your ideals sound like that same ideals I get from local people who have no kids. Drives me up the wall when a person with no kids tries to tell me how I should interact with mine because I too had those ideals until I became a parent and found they were complete bs.
| NoXzema wrote: |
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| There's a difference between forcing him to do things and encouraging him to do things. |
That is my point though. My son is showing no interest in programming so I'm not going to push it on him blindly hoping he likes it. If he shows interest in it then I will encourage him to pursue it (and I have tons of physical and ebooks for him to use and tutorials to learn from while I help him learn). It's not like he doesn't get exposed to it already seeing as I've been doing it for the whole 9 years he has been alive and has played several things I've made for him (but as pointed out he doesn't care for using anything outside a PS3 like controller).
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| Before I even go any further with this discussion, I have to ask. Do you have any kids that are out of diapers? Reason I ask, is because your ideals sound like that same ideals I get from local people who have no kids. Drives me up the wall when a person with no kids tries to tell me how I should interact with mine |
| My son is showing no interest in programming |
| I'm not going to push it on him |
May I just start off by saying I do not have a child and I will admit I was going to post the "encourage" message but read all the posts above and feel that it's probably getting on everyones nerves now (not just BHX S).
But I thought it was worth while saying that I was "encouraged" by my father into electronics and guitar because I showed small interest but at the time I really did not care for the more complex areas as he was trying to teach me. I had this little kit where you'd follow instructions and assemble circuits to make radios or traffic light simulations or such just by connecting wires between everything. The point being that I just liked putting things together and looking at the result, I didn't care for how it worked, and my farther was simply trying to educate me in how it works and why but I didn't care and I couldn't tell you anything of what he ever said because I just didn't pay attention.
(I had this kit btw)
http://www.communica.co.za/Content/Catalog/Images/I2841871151.jpg
Like I said I don't have my own child but I remember what it's like trying to be showed something I really wasn't interested in and it's quite simply boring. I have no knowledge of what I was "taught" back then and even though I have respect for and can understand how it all works now, I didn't like that extra push which I didn't ask for (I can't recall ever asking how exactly a certain thing works).
P.S. I'm sure that very few should know better than the farther about there sons interest.
But I thought it was worth while saying that I was "encouraged" by my father into electronics and guitar because I showed small interest but at the time I really did not care for the more complex areas as he was trying to teach me. I had this little kit where you'd follow instructions and assemble circuits to make radios or traffic light simulations or such just by connecting wires between everything. The point being that I just liked putting things together and looking at the result, I didn't care for how it worked, and my farther was simply trying to educate me in how it works and why but I didn't care and I couldn't tell you anything of what he ever said because I just didn't pay attention.
(I had this kit btw)
http://www.communica.co.za/Content/Catalog/Images/I2841871151.jpg
Like I said I don't have my own child but I remember what it's like trying to be showed something I really wasn't interested in and it's quite simply boring. I have no knowledge of what I was "taught" back then and even though I have respect for and can understand how it all works now, I didn't like that extra push which I didn't ask for (I can't recall ever asking how exactly a certain thing works).
P.S. I'm sure that very few should know better than the farther about there sons interest.
@SatsumaBenji
See, you showed interest in those things, my son has not showed interest in programming. ... helios point of view seems to be that I force him to learn the basics even if he has shown no interest in the hopes that it sparks interest.
My son, one day saw a teacher draw a smiley face on his paper in pre-school. He came straight home and started drawing them himself (showed interest in drawing). After a few days he had me draw something and I drew something a little more elaborate than a smiley face (which got his interest peaked more and he started drawing more than the smiley faces). I started encouraging him to pursue drawing if he liked it and told him his art looked great. I tell him he can be a great artist and will become better as he draws more.
He saw me playing games and again showed interest in them. I asked if he wanted to try and when he said yes I taught him. He loves to play games and he plays them all day. I again, encourage him to play if he enjoys them and sometimes he has me and my wife play (like today he had me play Flo's Diner and PixelJunk Shooter 2 with him).
He has seen me program IRC bots, Pong, Breakout, Worm, Lightcycles, tilemaps, and God knows how many test apps for playing with ideas. He has never showed any interest in it and therefore I'm not going to make him sit there while I try to teach him basics hoping to see a spark of interest.
But you are, you are telling me I should sit down and make my son learn the basics of programming to see if it sparks an interest. Last I checked that was forcing my interest on him rather than letting him choose. The proper way would be to do how I have done it, let him see me making a game and other programs and if he shows interest then teach him.
No, but it makes you ill equipped to give advice on kids. Parenting is a job and is an extremely delicate one at that. Most people wouldn't tell a electrician how to do their job or a fireman how to do theirs or a surgeon, but seems everyone thinks it is fine to intervene their opinion of how a parent should do their job of raising their kid.
See, you showed interest in those things, my son has not showed interest in programming. ... helios point of view seems to be that I force him to learn the basics even if he has shown no interest in the hopes that it sparks interest.
My son, one day saw a teacher draw a smiley face on his paper in pre-school. He came straight home and started drawing them himself (showed interest in drawing). After a few days he had me draw something and I drew something a little more elaborate than a smiley face (which got his interest peaked more and he started drawing more than the smiley faces). I started encouraging him to pursue drawing if he liked it and told him his art looked great. I tell him he can be a great artist and will become better as he draws more.
He saw me playing games and again showed interest in them. I asked if he wanted to try and when he said yes I taught him. He loves to play games and he plays them all day. I again, encourage him to play if he enjoys them and sometimes he has me and my wife play (like today he had me play Flo's Diner and PixelJunk Shooter 2 with him).
He has seen me program IRC bots, Pong, Breakout, Worm, Lightcycles, tilemaps, and God knows how many test apps for playing with ideas. He has never showed any interest in it and therefore I'm not going to make him sit there while I try to teach him basics hoping to see a spark of interest.
| helios wrote: |
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| I'm not telling you as a parent how to interact with your kid. I'm telling you, as a human being, how I would like to be treated if I was a kid. |
But you are, you are telling me I should sit down and make my son learn the basics of programming to see if it sparks an interest. Last I checked that was forcing my interest on him rather than letting him choose. The proper way would be to do how I have done it, let him see me making a game and other programs and if he shows interest then teach him.
| helios wrote: |
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| I don't think I need a degree from the university of parenthood for that. |
No, but it makes you ill equipped to give advice on kids. Parenting is a job and is an extremely delicate one at that. Most people wouldn't tell a electrician how to do their job or a fireman how to do theirs or a surgeon, but seems everyone thinks it is fine to intervene their opinion of how a parent should do their job of raising their kid.
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Okay please can we leave BHXS and his son in peace, perhaps even get back to the topic of this thread?
Before I jump into this conversation I will just say while I don't have any children myself my girlfriend of 3 years has a 7 and a half year old and I have been acting as a father figure in his life since his father isn't in the picture.
But anyways in my opinion parenting is a huge balancing act and you really have to find a middle ground. You can't go to far in either direction or you might cause more harm then good. It can be bad to force your children into stuff they have no interest in and it can also be equally as bad just to let them do their own thing and don' t encourage them to try new things.
On the topic of of giving your children a little push to try new things, I think there is a big difference between giving them a little push to try new things and forcing them to do them. You can encourage a child to try something new without forcing him into doing it.
For example if you wanted to see if he enjoys programming you might try teaching him a few things if he totally hates it or doesn't find it interesting you don't need to continue. He didn't really lose anything for trying it, but if he did like it and you didn't give him that push then he might have missed out on something that he might have loved. Giving a little push isn't forcing it upon him in my opinion it is more like giving him the chance to experience it and decide for himself if he likes it or not. It likes trying new food, my girlfriends son won't touch any new food if he had his way but we encourage him to try new things and most of the time he is happy that he did.
If you were to keep making him learn after he says he doesn't like it then yes it would be forcing it on him. There is nothing wrong with helping a child try new things and find new things that he/she likes. They are children after all and they don't know about everything.
What BHX seems to be against is forcing your child to do things you think are best for them or that they will like. Whether that is right or wrong really all depends on the situation I guess. While most of the time I don't agree with forcing a child to do stuff there is situations where it is necessary. Sometimes you need to force the child to do stuff that he doesn't want to do because it will help him later in life.
For example my girlfriends son would just sit inside playing video games all day long if he had his way. We have to force him to stop playing video games (We set a time limit each day where he can play) so he can actually get his homework done, so he can move around and get some exercise, etc.
He also completely hates maths but I know how important it will be in life specially for his generation so I do force him to study maths and do his maths homework. Is it a bad thing that I am forcing this upon him? I don't think so and neither does my girlfriend. He is a child and doesn't always know whats best for him like all children. Sometimes children need to be forced to do things and they will thank you for it later.
Overall I think it is a very delicate issue like BHX said and you need to fine a balance. If you are to passive it can hurt the child or if you are to forceful it can hurt the child also.
But anyways in my opinion parenting is a huge balancing act and you really have to find a middle ground. You can't go to far in either direction or you might cause more harm then good. It can be bad to force your children into stuff they have no interest in and it can also be equally as bad just to let them do their own thing and don' t encourage them to try new things.
On the topic of of giving your children a little push to try new things, I think there is a big difference between giving them a little push to try new things and forcing them to do them. You can encourage a child to try something new without forcing him into doing it.
For example if you wanted to see if he enjoys programming you might try teaching him a few things if he totally hates it or doesn't find it interesting you don't need to continue. He didn't really lose anything for trying it, but if he did like it and you didn't give him that push then he might have missed out on something that he might have loved. Giving a little push isn't forcing it upon him in my opinion it is more like giving him the chance to experience it and decide for himself if he likes it or not. It likes trying new food, my girlfriends son won't touch any new food if he had his way but we encourage him to try new things and most of the time he is happy that he did.
If you were to keep making him learn after he says he doesn't like it then yes it would be forcing it on him. There is nothing wrong with helping a child try new things and find new things that he/she likes. They are children after all and they don't know about everything.
What BHX seems to be against is forcing your child to do things you think are best for them or that they will like. Whether that is right or wrong really all depends on the situation I guess. While most of the time I don't agree with forcing a child to do stuff there is situations where it is necessary. Sometimes you need to force the child to do stuff that he doesn't want to do because it will help him later in life.
For example my girlfriends son would just sit inside playing video games all day long if he had his way. We have to force him to stop playing video games (We set a time limit each day where he can play) so he can actually get his homework done, so he can move around and get some exercise, etc.
He also completely hates maths but I know how important it will be in life specially for his generation so I do force him to study maths and do his maths homework. Is it a bad thing that I am forcing this upon him? I don't think so and neither does my girlfriend. He is a child and doesn't always know whats best for him like all children. Sometimes children need to be forced to do things and they will thank you for it later.
Overall I think it is a very delicate issue like BHX said and you need to fine a balance. If you are to passive it can hurt the child or if you are to forceful it can hurt the child also.
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