Area 51 - The Frantic Caller

[Disch]

Some may be good and peaceful while others may not and may wish us harm. Do you agree?

Yes.

[BHX]

flint wrote:

Avalanches don't just 'happen'.

The ignorance of that comment is making me start to wonder if you are just making these topics just to troll the site.

[z0My6Up4]

Who are you to call me ignorant?

[Computergeek01]

@ flint: I'm going to have to side with BHX at least until you elaborate on that statement. It could go either way.

Does anyone else think that approaching Earth at any multiple of the speed of light seems incredibly stupid? Especially since we have that whole Oort Cloud thing surrounding our little system.

[z0My6Up4]

That guy just posts in threads that I make to be insulting. He did it before and he is doing it again. If a thread does not interest him he should move on. He acts as if he knows it all. I'm just glad that I don't have to depend upon people like him to help me with any programming questions.

[BHX]

You actually ask questions? Only time I see you post is just threads like this where you go on about conspiracy theories that have no proof and then spend numerous posts spouting off more theories trying to give proof and credibility to your delusion.

[Disch]

@Flint: Ignore these guys.

You were walking me through something. Yes I agree that some aliens may be hostile while others may be friendly. Where were you going with that?

[CodeGazer]

BHX Specter wrote:

You actually ask questions? Only time I see you post is just threads like this where you go on about conspiracy theories that have no proof and then spend numerous posts spouting off more theories trying to give proof and credibility to your delusion.

Sorry to jump in and contribute to this thread going downhill (If it hasn't already) but BHX are you really going to go down that road? I mean really... I mean no offense but I don't think you are one to talk about others just posting in the lounge...

But to each his own everyone has a right to post whatever they want and contribute wherever they want on this forum as long as the community doesn't consider it to be against this forums rules or etiquette.

And while this thread and flints arguments are a bit out there, there hasn't really been to much insulting comments going on (no more then these threads usually get at least) so I see no reason why this thread is a problem. As stated before if you don't like it don't post in it.

As for him only posting threads about conspiracy theories if that is true so what? Is there some unwritten rule about you have to actually contribute to the forum in the form of asking questions or giving help?

Just wanted to give my 2 cents on that sorry about semi derailing to another subject just this kind of attitude gets under my skin.

[z0My6Up4]

You were walking me through something. Yes I agree that some aliens may be hostile while others may be friendly. Where were you going with that?

I'm saying that once you accept that some of them may be hostile, it is not a big leap for you to accept that at some point contact may have been made with them. The hostile aliens could be the ones working with the shadow government against the interests of humanity. Now I'm not saying that I agree with every conspiracy there is, but it has been claimed that there is an organisation called the 'Omega Agency' that actually gives orders to the United States President. It has been claimed that they are the ones who have made contact and are covering it up from us. Like I say, I don't know if such an organisation even exists but I think that there must be some similar organisation that is the interface to the shadow government.

[z0My6Up4]

@CodeGazer - just a side note - I actually ask all of my c++ programming questions on usenet. It is a great resource and full of experts willing to help. I find that I get answers really quickly and have always been helped along. There are quite a few newsgroups out there dedicated to c++ . For example comp.lang.c++ or comp.lang.c++.moderated. For anyone who does not know you can access usenet using thunderbird or newsreaders like emacs GNUS & PAN. I tend to only just read the forums here so I find it amazing that this BHX guy thinks I must necessarily ask c++ questions here or else I'm trolling.

[BHX]

CodeGazer wrote:

I would suggest instead of questioning others posting habits you might want to take a good look at your own.

No need to look at my habits, seeing as they are mine, I'm already aware of them.

CodeGazer wrote:

As stated before if you don't like it don't post in it.

Yes, it has also been stated all over the lounge threads that if you don't like a thread, user, or post to ignore them and "you aren't forced to read it", but as every thread has shown we all know these and don't care. When we don't agree with something we post a reply as is evident by your reply as you could have chose to disagree with what I said, not liked what I said, but ignored it.

Guess it is just in human nature to have conflict and go head long into it rather than ignore it.

flint wrote:

tend to only just read the forums here so I find it amazing that this BHX guy thinks I must necessarily ask c++ questions here or else I'm trolling.

You should go back through your threads as I'm not the only one that has accused you of trolling because of your arguments and conspiracy theories.

[Disch]

flint wrote:

I'm saying that once you accept that some of them may be hostile, it is not a big leap for you to accept that at some point contact may have been made with them.

It really is a huge leap.

Again I have to go back to the mere size of the universe. And if you are opening up the parallel universe door... then there is literally an infinite amount of planets in an infinite amount of universes. How did the aliens find Earth in all of that?

It'd be like searching for a grain of sand on a beach... only the beach is bigger than the entire planet.

The odds of contact being made in this scenario is statistically impossible.

The hostile aliens could be the ones working with the shadow government against the interests of humanity.

But again... if their intent was malicious... why the subterfuge? It doesn't stand up to logic.

Are you telling me they have the technology for interdimensional travel but not for atomic or chemical weapons?

That's like saying we have the technology to make computers, but not to create fire.

Now I'm not saying that I agree with every conspiracy there is, but it has been claimed that there is an organisation called the 'Omega Agency' that actually gives orders to the United States President. It has been claimed that they are the ones who have made contact and are covering it up from us.

It's also been claimed that the president is really a lizard-man in disguise. But that's retarded.

There have been a lot of claims. People can literally claim anything they want -- and they do. People make shit up all the time.

Without any proof, why are you willing to just pick one one of these claims and accept it as true? What reason do you have to think that there are aliens conspiring with the government... other than some random guy told you that is what was happening?

Like I say, I don't know if such an organisation even exists but I think that there must be some similar organisation that is the interface to the shadow government.

Why must there be?

[CodeGazer]

BHX wrote:

When we don't agree with something we post a reply as is evident by your reply as you could have chose to disagree with what I said, not liked what I said, but ignored it.

I agree that people like to post their disagreements and that is a good things I believe since it sparks debate which leads to improvement.

But there is a difference between my reply and your reply that you aren't noticing though. I am not calling you a troll because I disagree with your post.

Like I mentioned in my previous post to each his own as long as it isn't abusive or obstructive to other members of the forum go for it I say. That includes you, so while yes I could have just ignored your comments that I didn't agree with instead I choose to post my disagreement and spark this debate, but I am not the one calling another person a troll and questioning why they are posting.

I guess I should have said that if you don't agree with a thread so much as to call the poster a troll or post just to question why they are posting then maybe you shouldn't be posting in that thread in the first place ;).

BHX wrote:

You should go back through your threads as I'm not the only one that has accused you of trolling because of your arguments and conspiracy theories.

Again get off your high horse BHX. Just because you don't agree with the thread or think that they are pointless doesn't mean that he is a troll and has no right to post these threads. Again if you don't like it that much you don't have to read it or post in it. I'm all for posting your differences and debating them but just posting to call someone a troll isn't really necessary is it?

I really don't mean to be offensive but I remember countless posts from you over the past year or two that I have found pointless and seemed to just be to provoke arguments but never once did I call you a troll because of them.

Some people like conspiracy theories and just because he believes in something different then you and even though them beliefs go against common logic doesn't mean he is trying to troll.

Sorry flint and everyone that was contributing to the discussion so far for bringing this thread off topic.

[BHX]

CodeGazer wrote:

I'm all for posting your differences and debating them but just posting to call someone a troll isn't really necessary is it?

You are right, I shouldn't call flint a troll. We should continue to show him respect when he has shown little to none to those who disagree with his conspiracy theories. Please forgive me. I shouldn't have taken myself down to his level. I'm sorry.

[htirwin]

There are some credible conspiracy theories which are backed by a lot of very strong evidence out there that would scare the heck out of most people. But there are 1000 times more conspiracy theories out there that are not credible / not backed by strong evidence. Many of them are simply science fiction pitched as reality.

Don't forget how effective it can be to discredit something by introducing wacky baseless variants. And don't forget how much people love to make masses believe in things for various reasons, just look at the incredible accumulation of beliefs spread all over the internet.

As soon as you start investigating evidence based conspiracy theories you will probably find that some things are just too scary and out of your scope to be worth pursuing. Maybe this is why so many people love instead to "investigate" / come up with imaginative conspiracy theories that they probably subconsciously know are safe and harmless because they most likely are not real.

I think people should feel obligated to provide credible evidence of their beliefs when they attempt to convert others to them. Otherwise as in reality, people are bombarded by baseless conjecture left and right everywhere they go, and some (maybe most) don't know any better to let it convince them.

And about the call. I wouldn't bank on any content distributed by a for profit entertainment company to be honest, let alone the same company that airs Glen Beck and Rush Limbaugh. And why would he phone Art Bell in his moment of distress?

[z0My6Up4]

Disch wrote:

It really is a huge leap.

Again I have to go back to the mere size of the universe. And if you are opening up the parallel universe door... then there is literally an infinite amount of planets in an infinite amount of universes. How did the aliens find Earth in all of that?

It'd be like searching for a grain of sand on a beach... only the beach is bigger than the entire planet.

The odds of contact being made in this scenario is statistically impossible.

But humans have been reaching out and sending signals into deep space in search of extraterrestrial life. You must have heard of SETI and the Allen Telescope Array? How many crafts have been sent out from earth into deep space with detailed instructions of who we are and where to find us? My point here is that, without more, the situation might be as hopeless as you describe, but a whole lot of money has gone into searching for life out there. In effect it is as if we have lit a smoke fire on that beach you mention, so anyone flying nearby can see that something is down here. If the search was hopeless, why do you think people would have invested a shed load of money into it?

I won't even comment further on the extra dimensional aliens that the guy in the video mentioned as you have already made your mind up. Yes, it is perhaps an extraordinary claim to make that aliens are conspiring with certain people but it might just be true. Sometimes in life you just have to go with your gut instinct.

[D80DSL3A]

There's a concept called the 'Great Filter' which suggests we're doomed because no aliens have contacted us.
http://arstechnica.com/science/2014/04/habitable-exoplanets-are-bad-news-for-humanity/

[htirwin]

Disch wrote:

Have any of them visited Earth or even our solar system? Almost definitely not.

When you know the science about just how freaking big the universe is... and how far away everything is from our solar system... and how long it takes to travel such a long distance... it is clear that alien invasion of Earth is virtually impossible.

If it is possible to traverse that distance... then any species that possesses the technology capable of doing it would far exceed our own and would crush us without a thought. There would be no need to lurk in the shadows and ruin us from the inside.

It certainly is possible to visit other solar systems with our current level of technological advancement and understanding of physics. There is actually a lot of interesting reading you can do on the subject. I would start with reading this,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstellar_travel
http://www.icarusinterstellar.org/,
http://www.academia.edu/2111006
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Project_Longshot
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Daedalus
http://www.cnet.com/news/darpa-seeks-help-for-interstellar-starship/.

Given we can do it now, and we only just invented the airplane in little over 100 years ago. Just imagine what we might be capable of in 1,000, 1,000,000, or < 10,000,000 years from now.

Idea that it is unlikely we would be visited by an extra-solor race depends on some unknown parameters which we really have little to no clue about. A few tweaks to these parameters and the likeliness goes from almost certain to almost certainly not.

[Disch]

But humans have been reaching out and sending signals into deep space in search of extraterrestrial life. You must have heard of SETI and the Allen Telescope Array?

Yes, but even though we've been searching for decades, we have not found any signs of intelligent life.

How many crafts have been sent out from earth into deep space with detailed instructions of who we are and where to find us?

Voyager 1 is the furthest man made probe. It just recently (2 years ago) exited our solar system... and it took about 40 years for it to get that far. And it's only expected to run for another 10 years before its generators finally fail, so it's not likely to make it much further (though I guess it will become space debris and keep drifting)

So yeah... all that time and we just barely escaped the solar system. The thing is... our solar system is microscopic compared to the size of the universe.

Maybe you fail to grasp just how big the universe is. It's freaking big. It's mindblowingly big. Think of the biggest thing you can think of... multiply its size by like a million... and the universe is still way bigger.

- There are 8 planets in our Solar System
- There are ~100-400 billion solar systems in the Milky Way galaxy
- There are over 54 galaxies in our Local Group
- There are 10 Groups in the Virgo Supercluster
- There are millions (~10 million) superclusters in the observable universe.

If our solar system is typical, we can expect there to be 8 * 250billion * 54 * 10 * 10million other planets in the observable universe.

That is... 4.32e19 planets.
That is... 43,200,000,000,000,000,000 planets

So not only are there tons of planets out there... but they're all really really really far apart... so searching all of them is nontrivial.

EDIT: To put this into perspective even more.... if your species is a trillion years old and you were able to search on average a hundred planets every year... you would have searched 0.00023% of all the planets.

For even more perspective... our species is several million years old, and in all that time we have searched exactly 7 other planets (and not even thoroughly -- we're still looking at Mars)
/EDIT

And this is completely ignoring moons and other heavenly bodies that may be capable of supporting life.

And that's just the parts of the universe that we can see. It might be even bigger. And if there are other universes (which there probably are), then it's even bigger.

My point here is that, without more, the situation might be as hopeless as you describe, but a whole lot of money has gone into searching for life out there. In effect it is as if we have lit a smoke fire on that beach you mention, so anyone flying nearby can see that something is down here. If the search was hopeless, why do you think people would have invested a shed load of money into it?

Because searching for extraterrestrial life is not the only purpose of these programs. They're also contributors to space exploration.

Space exploration has a lot of benefits for advancing the scientific frontier. And hey.. while we're at it... why don't we also look for alien life?

I can promise you that no serious project was ever funded on the sole principle of finding alien life. They were all bundled with other aspects that made them more appealing.

Yes, it is perhaps an extraordinary claim to make that aliens are conspiring with certain people but it might just be true.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

You have yet to offer any.

It might also be true that if you can get your entire head into your own urethra, you'll start crapping out diamonds. But I'm not going to just assume that's true.

Sometimes in life you just have to go with your gut instinct.

Favoring gut instinct over rational thought might be the very definition of "stupid".

Don't get me wrong... instinct definitely has a role... but replacing logic is not it.



Let me ask you another question. How would the world be different without these alien oppressors?

EDIT: also... to use your own point against you... why would our government spend all this money on searching for alien life when we've already found it?

[giblit]

Disch wrote:

Maybe you fail to grasp just how big the universe is. It's freaking big. It's mindblowingly big. Think of the biggest thing you can think of... multiply its size by like a million... and the universe is still way bigger.

- There are 8 planets in our Solar System
- There are ~100-400 billion solar systems in the Milky Way galaxy
- There are over 54 galaxies in our Local Group
- There are 10 Groups in the Virgo Supercluster
- There are millions (~10 million) superclusters in the observable universe.

If our solar system is typical, we can expect there to be 8 * 250billion * 54 * 10 * 10million other planets in the observable universe.

That is... 4.32e19 planets.
That is... 43,200,000,000,000,000,000 planets

Didn't you post this in the last conspiracy thread?