Is the U.S. education system going downhill?
I was in school today, and with state tests next week, we aren't doing much bur review to begin with. But my teachers... all year... have done absolutely nothing to teach me, excluding my math teacher. We don't do ANY work in Literature or Language Arts (in my school you have the same teacher for both). All she does, is tell us stories everyday, whether it be ghost stories or "prep talks" that a college professor would rant to us about. We have vocabulary tests - which are the easiest words ever, such as insane. Insane should not be a 7th grade word.
And in science, the only new thing I've learned - all year - is plant parts. We are still learning about cells! That was a fourth grade skill for me! And now, idk if you have heard about it, but my state adopted Common Core, which is supposed to make it easier for the stupid kids to pass. Well, it doesn't say that, but any of the at least average kids have done advanced on the pretests. The... below average (shouldnt have used "stupid" before) kids are even making proficient! It is literally questions that are a grade level before us, except we have to explain it a bit more. Like, an example:
Carl has 10 apples. He gives 4 to his friend, then buys 9 more. Draw a table, number line, and a paragraph explaining how many he has now.
Don't even tell me you can't answer that. I don't know if it is because I could be more advanced than the others, or if they are literally just dumbing school down to make it look like America is producing more world changing scientists than it is now.
PS: I remember a quote by George Carlin:
Am I just being cynical or does anybody else feel this way?
And in science, the only new thing I've learned - all year - is plant parts. We are still learning about cells! That was a fourth grade skill for me! And now, idk if you have heard about it, but my state adopted Common Core, which is supposed to make it easier for the stupid kids to pass. Well, it doesn't say that, but any of the at least average kids have done advanced on the pretests. The... below average (shouldnt have used "stupid" before) kids are even making proficient! It is literally questions that are a grade level before us, except we have to explain it a bit more. Like, an example:
Carl has 10 apples. He gives 4 to his friend, then buys 9 more. Draw a table, number line, and a paragraph explaining how many he has now.
Don't even tell me you can't answer that. I don't know if it is because I could be more advanced than the others, or if they are literally just dumbing school down to make it look like America is producing more world changing scientists than it is now.
PS: I remember a quote by George Carlin:
| All you will need in a couple years to get to college, is a pencil. |
Am I just being cynical or does anybody else feel this way?
I get what you mean. I don't live in the U.S. but I'm the 8th grade and I can understand what you are saying. Right know the Minister of Education is trying to make school harder and I'm in the first year of those affected. Still, a lot of the things we are taught we already know. For example we have a class named ICT(roughly Information and Comunication Tecnologies) and we are the generation of technology. You know what they teach us? How turn a freaking computer on and write text in MS Word. 95% percent of what they teach us in Portuguese(my native language), History, Math, Sciences, Chemistry and Physics I have already learned it through the internet.
But what we, the ones that actually like learning, not necessarily in school, have to understand is that we are still a minority and they make the educational plans for the global population in the schools.
But what we, the ones that actually like learning, not necessarily in school, have to understand is that we are still a minority and they make the educational plans for the global population in the schools.
| But what we, the ones that actually like learning, not necessarily in school, have to understand is that we are still a minority |
I disagree.
Everyone enjoys learning. I have yet to meet anyone in my life who did not enjoy learning something new. The problem is not with learning ... but is with the process by which we teach.
Make the material interesting, and people will enjoy learning it.
closed account (G30oGNh0)
Before I start, George Carlin is amazing.
Not being an American myself I can't comment too much, but I will try. As I believe it to be happening a lot over the Western side of the world.
From what I believe America is ranked 34 in Education. This may have gone up or down since I last checked.
I think the reason behind this is people don't need to be smart, they need to do as they are told, when they are told, or they get detention, they go to prison, they get the death penalty.
Back in the days of old only the rich and powerful could afford to learn, while the common man or 'Peasant' were forced to work the land for these people. Think about being a farmer, raising cattle, only to give the guy with the whip the best side of beef from you're work, while your children or your brothers and sisters eat the guts and intestines of a pig.
There has always been an aristocracy of control. As you are an American, I do not intent to judge but you may not be able to comprehend Medieval Europe. The mass changes of power of who has the right to rule to peasants, the book burning and the executions. Always noble families who thought themselves 'proper' and the best one yet 'Civilized'.
People are being dumbed down, period. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise or fool you. Don't even believe me just think for yourself and see what is around you. Taught not to think for themselves and to do as they are told. There are two ways of doing things; 'Their' way, or no way. People are forced to choose between being normal or being an outsider, that guy.
"You're not one of those types of people are you? Oh God, another crazy".
It's good to see people are finally waking up. We still have a long way to go, but eventually, Jersey Shore will be taken off the air.
Not being an American myself I can't comment too much, but I will try. As I believe it to be happening a lot over the Western side of the world.
From what I believe America is ranked 34 in Education. This may have gone up or down since I last checked.
I think the reason behind this is people don't need to be smart, they need to do as they are told, when they are told, or they get detention, they go to prison, they get the death penalty.
Back in the days of old only the rich and powerful could afford to learn, while the common man or 'Peasant' were forced to work the land for these people. Think about being a farmer, raising cattle, only to give the guy with the whip the best side of beef from you're work, while your children or your brothers and sisters eat the guts and intestines of a pig.
There has always been an aristocracy of control. As you are an American, I do not intent to judge but you may not be able to comprehend Medieval Europe. The mass changes of power of who has the right to rule to peasants, the book burning and the executions. Always noble families who thought themselves 'proper' and the best one yet 'Civilized'.
People are being dumbed down, period. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise or fool you. Don't even believe me just think for yourself and see what is around you. Taught not to think for themselves and to do as they are told. There are two ways of doing things; 'Their' way, or no way. People are forced to choose between being normal or being an outsider, that guy.
"You're not one of those types of people are you? Oh God, another crazy".
It's good to see people are finally waking up. We still have a long way to go, but eventually, Jersey Shore will be taken off the air.
| You know what they teach us? How turn a freaking computer on and write text in MS Word |
Our computer class (named "Computer") is exactly what you just said. That and internet safety. The first half of the semester we type, and the second we learn about internet safety. Every other part of that class is this stupid game "Marble Blast". I hate that game... so... so much. But you know what is sad? I know more about computers than the teacher. I told him the other days that I built a computer and he is like, "Oh... How do you do that? I didn't know you could do that. Huh" and then stared off into the distance. When he taught us the "Basic Parts of a Computer" he called the tower the CPU. I corrected him and now he like... hates me. He even took the time out of class just to fact check me... on the projector... and then looked like a fool in front of the class.
Anyway:
| I have yet to meet anyone in my life who did not enjoy learning something new |
You know, I REALLY wish that was the case in my school. I said, "Wow, I wish we could learn something new for once."
Kid next to me: "What? Why? We are doing nothing. That is way better than the teacher talking to us."
Ugh.
I have a feeling this next generation will be terrible. And people all the time are completely unimpressed by me programming. And it is not that, but they actually sometimes reprimand me for it. No one knows that the future is based on computers and medicine? I mean, that is the way I see it. Computers are everywhere now, and are evolving every month. And medicine... once a week I see a new study coming out to help cure a disease.
As a fairly new parent I can honestly say that at first I hated the idea of charter schools, I thought they were welfare for the rich. But with my little one going into kindergarden I'm finally starting to see that they are really just the reaction to things like Common Core and NCLB. I've been out of school for a while now but I can see everything you mean in my daughters homework assignments and even just seeing the kids in her class. It's like the public schools aren't even trying and if the parents don't teach their kids themselves (which in this particular school 90% of them don't) then the child is doomed to be an idiot. My daughter went into pre-k knowing her colors and numbers in English and Spanish we were starting to read and had just started on addition and subtraction; even this late in the year I would say a third of her classmates don't know the entire alphabet yet. She was learning more in daycare then in the actual school. I kind of feel bad because even though I know what the problem is I can't help but to blame her teacher. The poor women has taken up smoking again and I think my phone calls and notes of criticism about the brain dead assignments to her are part of the reason for it.
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Well, I will agree on this entire subject. As for the mention of Common Core, it has just started implementation. Everything you see now is not a reflection of the actual system, since the kids still need to start off with it and work their way up first. However, I do agree that it seems to further and further lower the standards required to pass. It's getting rather ridiculous.
For those who are here, I recommend looking into the International Baccalaureate Program (IB). It is international, and... well, you actually learn. The URL for their site is here: www.ibo.org . The requirements actually make sense for a high-school student to be doing, and it also includes a computer technology course that requires knowing coding C++ for some of the questions (though it does tend to use Java terminology with reference to "methods" and such). It really is a breath of fresh air... if you don't mind the crazy workload.
For those who are here, I recommend looking into the International Baccalaureate Program (IB). It is international, and... well, you actually learn. The URL for their site is here: www.ibo.org . The requirements actually make sense for a high-school student to be doing, and it also includes a computer technology course that requires knowing coding C++ for some of the questions (though it does tend to use Java terminology with reference to "methods" and such). It really is a breath of fresh air... if you don't mind the crazy workload.
closed account (G30oGNh0)
I kind of feel bad because even though I know what the problem is I can't help but to blame her teacher. The poor women has taken up smoking again and I think my phone calls and notes of criticism about the brain dead assignments to her are part of the reason for it. |
You are 100% in wanting what is best for your child, anyone would do the same. As you know it isn't the teachers fault.
Carry on teaching your daughter. She will do just fine. Please don't bring unnecessary blame unto other people. I'm sure she, like the rest of us, are having a hard time dealing with this world. We need to help each other help ourselves.
| You know, I REALLY wish that was the case in my school. I said, "Wow, I wish we could learn something new for once." Kid next to me: "What? Why? We are doing nothing. That is way better than the teacher talking to us." Ugh. |
This sort of supports my point.
There's an association between school and boredom. Kids would rather do nothing than participate because participating is a horrible experience.
Learning is not boring. Learning is exciting. When I say "learning", I don't mean having a teacher talk at you explaining what a cell is. I mean the process of actually absorbing information. Even kids which hate school enjoy learning a new thing if they think that thing is interesting.
What makes this so challenging is that different people learn in different ways. And different subjects are interesting to different people.
Our education system is stuck in the dark ages. We give kids these dry, boring text books, and try to force information into their brains through repetition and memorization. Very few people learn that way. It's actually an excruciating process for most people.
To teach kids effectively, you have to pique their interest. When a kid is interested in something... they soak up information like a sponge. It's uncanny how fast kids learn when they actually enjoy the subject matter.
The bigger problem here is that most schools are treated more like day-care than education facilities.
EDIT: wow this is like an incoherent rant. Sorry for rambling. XD
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| I kind of feel bad because even though I know what the problem is I can't help but to blame her teacher. The poor women has taken up smoking again and I think my phone calls and notes of criticism about the brain dead assignments to her are part of the reason for it. |
In the US, the teachers have zero control over the curriculum. This is in no way the teacher's fault. They are slaves to the board.
This is actually yet another problem. With standardized testing and all these measurements put in place... everything has become so rigid and formulaic. Teachers that actually want to go the extra mile and make their classes interesting have their hands tied.
What's worse... when the kids don't perform well... the teachers (despite not having any power to change the situation) are the ones who get penalized if the test scores are low.
It's the worst kind of catch-22. Many teachers quit out of frustration. Our system literally is driving the good teachers away.
Well, the only reason I am so much more advanced than the other students is because I actually do the learning at home. Whenever I am bored, I will just start googling things that I found interesting that day. For instance, I read a little thing on nuclear physics the other day, for the hell of it. The teachers at my school don't care. They are just there for the pay, is what it seems. My science teacher just tells us to read out of the book everyday and do a worksheet on it. No wonder the kids in my school are so incompetent, the teachers don't even try to teach us.
I remember I had a teacher in 4th grade. Best. Teacher. Ever. He would always stand us up and do fun games to teach us the concept. He would have a joke for every math formula. To bad he was there for a year! After that, the school fired him for being too "silly". Well, that was the most I had ever learned. I always felt such pity on that school for doing that. He is the one who inspired me to be so determined on something. If I didn't have him, I would have tried programming for a day, hit an obstacle, and give up.
I remember I had a teacher in 4th grade. Best. Teacher. Ever. He would always stand us up and do fun games to teach us the concept. He would have a joke for every math formula. To bad he was there for a year! After that, the school fired him for being too "silly". Well, that was the most I had ever learned. I always felt such pity on that school for doing that. He is the one who inspired me to be so determined on something. If I didn't have him, I would have tried programming for a day, hit an obstacle, and give up.
| I remember I had a teacher in 4th grade. Best. Teacher. Ever. He would always stand us up and do fun games to teach us the concept. He would have a joke for every math formula. To bad he was there for a year! After that, the school fired him for being too "silly". |
Case in point.
Honestly, I don't think the UK education system is all that great. Having been through it fairly recently and knowing people that are going through it now, I mean yeah it's okay I guess (better to go than not if you can't be taught at home), but kids are leaving school without any critical thinking being taught and without many essential life/career skills.
And here in the UK, the US system is judged as being significantly worse...
And here in the UK, the US system is judged as being significantly worse...
closed account (G30oGNh0)
^ Have you seen how UK schools are becoming privately funded 'Academies' now?
closed account (z05DSL3A)
| ^ Have you seen how UK schools are becoming privately funded 'Academies' now? |
Not quite:
| 4. Academies Academies are publicly funded independent schools. Academies don’t have to follow the national curriculum and can set their own term times. They still have to follow the same rules on admissions, special educational needs and exclusions as other state schools. Academies get money direct from the government, not the local council. They’re run by an academy trust which employs the staff. Some academies have sponsors such as businesses, universities, other schools, faith groups or voluntary groups. Sponsors are responsible for improving the performance of their schools. |
https://www.gov.uk/types-of-school/academies
Academy status does not mean the school is privately funded; they remain state funded. However, it means (among other things, but this is a big one) the school is allowed to not follow the national curriculum anymore and the school can decide its own educational pathway. However, since all state tests are based on the national curriculum and school's performance is based almost solely upon scores in these tests, the school is forced to follow the national curriculum anyway.
I work quite a lot in schools and many of the teachers claim the government has absolutely no idea what they are doing and that most policies are ridiculous or almost impossible to implement at all.
Still, in spite of all this, my point stands that the US educational system is heavily looked down upon over here in UK (and probably most of Europe too to be honest).
I work quite a lot in schools and many of the teachers claim the government has absolutely no idea what they are doing and that most policies are ridiculous or almost impossible to implement at all.
Still, in spite of all this, my point stands that the US educational system is heavily looked down upon over here in UK (and probably most of Europe too to be honest).
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closed account (G30oGNh0)
I'm not saying all schools have become privately funded. There has been a noticeable increase private sponsorship of schools, especially in correlation with this A to C business.
EDIT: Our government does know what they are doing, they're not stupid. It just isn't in their agenda to give us what we need. In general it's bad for business.
EDIT 2:
EDIT: Our government does know what they are doing, they're not stupid. It just isn't in their agenda to give us what we need. In general it's bad for business.
EDIT 2:
| What is an academy? Academies are state-maintained independent schools set up with the help of outside sponsors. Former prime minister, Tony Blair, established academies in 2000 to drive up standards by replacing failing schools in struggling education authorities. Originally called city academies, the government dropped the word "city" to allow for academies in struggling rural areas as well as inner cities. How are they funded? Schools have to raise £2m to become an academy - from private organisations such as business, faith or voluntary groups. But universities, high performing colleges and schools will now be exempt from that requirement, after schools secretary Ed Balls called in July for more universities to get involved in running academies. The government contributes typically about £25m. The private organisation runs the school outside of the local education authority's (LEA) funding control, but still operates it within all the national requirements for curriculum and standards. How many academies are there? There are now 83 academies open and 50 more are due next September. The first three opened in September 2002, followed by nine in 2003, five in 2004, 10 in 2005, 20 in 2006 and 36 this year. Schools and learners minister, Jim Knight, has announced plans to allow for a further 50 academies to be opened in each of the next three years, bringing the total to 230 academies by September 2010. Who are some of the sponsors of academies? Early academies were set up by Sir Peter Vardy, a Christian philanthropist who has been accused of advocating the teaching of creationism in science in the schools, and Graham Able, the head of the prestigious Dulwich college in London. Other names coming forward to sponsor schools include BT, Channel 4, University College London, Microsoft, the BBC, Manchester Airport, UBS and charities such as United Learning Trust. Nine more universities, including Manchester and Wolverhampton, have expressed an interest. Are academies raising standards? A report by PWC in July found attainment in academies is improving at a faster rate than comparable schools and the national average and pupils are doing better overall at key stage 3, GCSE and post-16 levels. But MPs on the Commons public accounts committee said it was impossible to tell whether the success of academies was from the extra cash and enthusiastic teachers, or from the freedom given to them and warned it may not last. What do people think of them? They are an established feature of the education landscape now but there is often still local unease about them. Protesters camped out in Wembley to prevent an academy from being built there and UCL's bid to run an academy in Camden has proved unpopular with locals. Unions want to see academies returned to the control of local authorities |
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closed account (z05DSL3A)
| Our government does know what they are doing, they're not stupid. |
| It just isn't in their agenda to give us what we need. In general it's bad for business. |
Edit:
The biggest problem is that Education system (in the UK) is a political football and shouldn't be. It gets chopped and changed to score political points, when it should be managed in a way to allow continual improvement to give everyone what they need.
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| I GuNNeR I wrote: |
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| EDIT 2: What is an academy?... |
You forgot your citation:
Anthea Lipsett
Education Guardian, Tuesday 13 November 2007 10.16 GMT
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