Opinions on starting up studio at young age?
closed account (G30oGNh0)
Starting up a studio young isn't a bad idea, as long as you aren't expecting to make the next Microsoft or CryTek within the next decade or two.
You can make simple programs and sell them. You won't make much money, but 20/30 quid here and there can go a long way, especially if you keep investing it back into yourself. As you are young your elders may look down at you thinking your just a kid and what not, but it's always a good feeling when you make the finish product and they like it.
As others have said it isn't easy to sell software. You need resources, reputation, time etc. Software is a big thing when it comes to business's ( especially big business's ) downtime can cause a lot of problems and cost huge amounts of money which they will blame you for. You have to be very careful and cautious at all times.
Start small, think small. Then start advancing as you understand the angles of software generation better. Do not bite off more than you can chew as the saying goes...
To test yourself, try and identify what "Commercial software" is. Software is only worth something to the person needing it ( Need being the key word here ) People are always trying to find a new need and over the years it just keeps repeating itself ( Games, movies even music. Maybe I am just cynical I don't know ). A lot of cases it's the obvious that keeps getting overlooked as people keep attempting to make the most technical, complicated, full featured software ever developed as a testimony to their mathematical precision. You will realise it's not about the software at all, but the people of higher status making the decisions. For example, if you think of Apple, you think of Steve Jobs, not the thousands of under paid programmers who put their blood, sweat and tears into making the software just so they can feed their children and keep a roof over their head.
As for what you can do within the next year? Well you can do things you couldn't do a year previous, that question is too ambiguous as it depends on what you learn and how fast you learn each chapter/module/technique. Learning is self reliant, only you know the answer to that question.
/Rant
I hope you find something of use in there.
You can make simple programs and sell them. You won't make much money, but 20/30 quid here and there can go a long way, especially if you keep investing it back into yourself. As you are young your elders may look down at you thinking your just a kid and what not, but it's always a good feeling when you make the finish product and they like it.
As others have said it isn't easy to sell software. You need resources, reputation, time etc. Software is a big thing when it comes to business's ( especially big business's ) downtime can cause a lot of problems and cost huge amounts of money which they will blame you for. You have to be very careful and cautious at all times.
Start small, think small. Then start advancing as you understand the angles of software generation better. Do not bite off more than you can chew as the saying goes...
To test yourself, try and identify what "Commercial software" is. Software is only worth something to the person needing it ( Need being the key word here ) People are always trying to find a new need and over the years it just keeps repeating itself ( Games, movies even music. Maybe I am just cynical I don't know ). A lot of cases it's the obvious that keeps getting overlooked as people keep attempting to make the most technical, complicated, full featured software ever developed as a testimony to their mathematical precision. You will realise it's not about the software at all, but the people of higher status making the decisions. For example, if you think of Apple, you think of Steve Jobs, not the thousands of under paid programmers who put their blood, sweat and tears into making the software just so they can feed their children and keep a roof over their head.
As for what you can do within the next year? Well you can do things you couldn't do a year previous, that question is too ambiguous as it depends on what you learn and how fast you learn each chapter/module/technique. Learning is self reliant, only you know the answer to that question.
/Rant
I hope you find something of use in there.
Wow... Just gonna let you know... that was a pretty good speech/rant/whatever-you-want-to-call-it. But you are right. I have had some really good ideas for apps, and I figured I will start there, then branch out into, like you said, bigger stuff.
Anyway, the reason I asked this question is because I have been watching that new HBO series Silicon Valley, which if you didn't know is about a kickstarter studio going through tough business impediments, top-notch investors. Of course the characters of the studio are like, 25, but still. It is a good show that makes people think of how hard it can be to be a brand new company than it is to have already made it, such as Apple or something.
Anyway, thanks for all the answers. I am about to post another Lounge question that was on my mind in school today. Well, more of just a post.
Anyway, the reason I asked this question is because I have been watching that new HBO series Silicon Valley, which if you didn't know is about a kickstarter studio going through tough business impediments, top-notch investors. Of course the characters of the studio are like, 25, but still. It is a good show that makes people think of how hard it can be to be a brand new company than it is to have already made it, such as Apple or something.
Anyway, thanks for all the answers. I am about to post another Lounge question that was on my mind in school today. Well, more of just a post.
closed account (G30oGNh0)
I'm glad you think so. I lurk more than I post, I help when I can. I think that is first bit of praise I have had since joining, so thank you.
Apps are the way to go for a starting studio. It's easier and cheaper to maintain. When you make an app or two, you will start understanding what it takes and how you can improve.
It is hard, very hard to make a name for yourself in the computer industry now. Especially if you think about it in an evolutionary point of view. When the Semi-Conductor industry began, there were ( I'd say ) thousands of companies with a good distribution of market share. As the years went by the software/hardware predators ( Intel, IBM, Microsoft, Apple ) began to ( ruthlessly ) take down it's competitors in open battle and behind the scenes ( Microsoft being a key company here, NetScape anyone? ). Now there is only Windows or Mac while only remnants of the weak ( Or the people who cared about the software more ) are left.
It's a sad and brutal truth. If you make something worthwhile, they will either buy you out or simulate then sue you ( I assure you they have a better lawyer, and a lot more money ). Something people fail to recognize.
Be careful out there, and I'll leave you to ponder. Good luck.
Apps are the way to go for a starting studio. It's easier and cheaper to maintain. When you make an app or two, you will start understanding what it takes and how you can improve.
It is hard, very hard to make a name for yourself in the computer industry now. Especially if you think about it in an evolutionary point of view. When the Semi-Conductor industry began, there were ( I'd say ) thousands of companies with a good distribution of market share. As the years went by the software/hardware predators ( Intel, IBM, Microsoft, Apple ) began to ( ruthlessly ) take down it's competitors in open battle and behind the scenes ( Microsoft being a key company here, NetScape anyone? ). Now there is only Windows or Mac while only remnants of the weak ( Or the people who cared about the software more ) are left.
It's a sad and brutal truth. If you make something worthwhile, they will either buy you out or simulate then sue you ( I assure you they have a better lawyer, and a lot more money ). Something people fail to recognize.
Be careful out there, and I'll leave you to ponder. Good luck.
| It's a sad and brutal truth. If you make something worthwhile, they will either buy you out or simulate then sue you ( I assure you they have a better lawyer, and a lot more money ). Something people fail to recognize. |
Fact one, they can only buy you out if you are willing to sell. Fact two, those who know either pay for legal documentation or do the method I use and put all the documentation for the product (in my case games) and snail mail it to me, but never open it. This way you have a government stamped envelope showing the date to prove you had the idea and game first. No lawyer can get around that.
The mailing thing is actually from a book about how to safeguard your writings as a novelist, but I've applied it to game development too.
As for Netscape, you do realize Firefox is made by the team that used to make Netscape? I wouldn't say Netscape is remnants of the weak seeing as Firefox/Mozilla is quite popular.
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You are right, that many are trying to start up big studios. It will make it harder, but I am not entirely about the money. I want that nice "small studio" feeling with just a bunch of friends, having fun with it. So, as long as I get as far as getting a small office, then my dream came true. The money is just a bonus to me.
Unfortunately, there aren't many people out there like that. My brother wants to be a surgeon, and he literally told me, "Doctors make a lot of money. That is awesome. I want to be a doctor." Thing is, he hates blood and guts. Everyone in my school wants to be big sports stars, just to make 23mill a year. Everybody complains that their job sucks, but they chose to get that job.
Unfortunately, there aren't many people out there like that. My brother wants to be a surgeon, and he literally told me, "Doctors make a lot of money. That is awesome. I want to be a doctor." Thing is, he hates blood and guts. Everyone in my school wants to be big sports stars, just to make 23mill a year. Everybody complains that their job sucks, but they chose to get that job.
| AceDawg45 wrote: |
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| Everybody complains that their job sucks, but they chose to get that job. |
I agreed with you up until that line. Everybody complains their job sucks, that is true. "but they chose to get that job" is where I disagree because in this world you apply everywhere and take the first job that replies or else you live on the street. You have to have income to keep a roof over your head, clothes on your back, and food on the table. If you hold out for a dream job you may find yourself on the street begging for money to just have enough to eat. So yes, they chose that job, because having a sucky job is better than having to live on the street.
Well, I guess I agree with you on that. Well, no, I do. Hmm. I guess I never thought about that. Then again, I am only 13, and probably too young to understand the working world.
| I agreed with you up until that line. Everybody complains their job sucks, that is true. "but they chose to get that job" is where I disagree because in this world you apply everywhere and take the first job that replies or else you live on the street. You have to have income to keep a roof over your head, clothes on your back, and food on the table. If you hold out for a dream job you may find yourself on the street begging for money to just have enough to eat. So yes, they chose that job, because having a sucky job is better than having to live on the street. |
That isn't true either. In the life there is two different types of work. There are jobs and then their are careers. Jobs are what you get to pay the bill while you are looking for your career job.
People don't just take the first job they get offered and say "ohh well I guess I will work here for the next 20 years" unless they truly love that job and want to turn it into a career or they are just for some silly reason won't continue looking for their career job.
Yes there are times where you have to take the first job you get offered to pay the bills but usually people will take that job and continue looking for a better one. If you don't look for a better job that you like and want to turn into a career then that is all on you and no one else.
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@CodeGazer
Sorry, my topics didn't show that you replied. I used to believe that BS too. Fact is that the only ones that get their careers are ones that are willing to sacrifice family, friends, and as much time as possible to achieve it. I could have easily been working for a game company now, but I'm not going to ignore my wife and son just to get a career. If you look at what most peoples career plan is, family is usually later on the list after getting the job and becoming successful in the job (promotions, etc.).
Fact is, if you are working a 9 to 5 job that actually works more than your brain power then you will go home so exhausted that you will come to the impasse of either quitting your job to focus on your career or giving up on your career for a steady income. I've worked jobs in retail, grocery, factory, and even construction doing home add-ons. I hit that impasse and chose the former to go to college to get a degree and better my chances at a career. Then life happened and my son's health made it so I can't work (sure I can program, but now I can't focus on a career because it would take time away from taking care of him and his needs).
The reason I call what you said BS is because it is just that. That is almost verbatim what I was told in college, but life is unpredictable and has too many variables to account for to ever make that true. Growing up I swore I would be a game programmer, never be married, never have kids, and never drive because of losing too many friends in high school from driving accidents. I'm not a professional game programmer, but I'm driving, been married 11 years (next month), and have a 9 year old son who is smart as a whip, but due to his health and muscle disease requires my full attention.
If none of that is a good enough reason then maybe this will be:
I had to come to terms with the fact that not everyone can program after spending months trying to help a friend who wanted to be a programmer. It also made me come to terms that not everyone can get their dream job for the same reasoning behind why not everyone can be a programmer (they just may not be cut out for it).
[EDIT]
Hmm..apparently I_Gunner_I was happier lurking. He deleted his account :/.
Sorry, my topics didn't show that you replied. I used to believe that BS too. Fact is that the only ones that get their careers are ones that are willing to sacrifice family, friends, and as much time as possible to achieve it. I could have easily been working for a game company now, but I'm not going to ignore my wife and son just to get a career. If you look at what most peoples career plan is, family is usually later on the list after getting the job and becoming successful in the job (promotions, etc.).
Fact is, if you are working a 9 to 5 job that actually works more than your brain power then you will go home so exhausted that you will come to the impasse of either quitting your job to focus on your career or giving up on your career for a steady income. I've worked jobs in retail, grocery, factory, and even construction doing home add-ons. I hit that impasse and chose the former to go to college to get a degree and better my chances at a career. Then life happened and my son's health made it so I can't work (sure I can program, but now I can't focus on a career because it would take time away from taking care of him and his needs).
The reason I call what you said BS is because it is just that. That is almost verbatim what I was told in college, but life is unpredictable and has too many variables to account for to ever make that true. Growing up I swore I would be a game programmer, never be married, never have kids, and never drive because of losing too many friends in high school from driving accidents. I'm not a professional game programmer, but I'm driving, been married 11 years (next month), and have a 9 year old son who is smart as a whip, but due to his health and muscle disease requires my full attention.
If none of that is a good enough reason then maybe this will be:
I had to come to terms with the fact that not everyone can program after spending months trying to help a friend who wanted to be a programmer. It also made me come to terms that not everyone can get their dream job for the same reasoning behind why not everyone can be a programmer (they just may not be cut out for it).
[EDIT]
Hmm..apparently I_Gunner_I was happier lurking. He deleted his account :/.
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| Sorry, my topics didn't show that you replied. I used to believe that BS too. Fact is that the only ones that get their careers are ones that are willing to sacrifice family, friends, and as much time as possible to achieve it. I could have easily been working for a game company now, but I'm not going to ignore my wife and son just to get a career. If you look at what most peoples career plan is, family is usually later on the list after getting the job and becoming successful in the job (promotions, etc.). |
I feel sorry for you if you actually believe that to get a career that you love you have to "sacrifice family, friends, and as much time as possible to achieve it" because let's face it that is just not true most of the time. I am sure some people do put their career over family but you are making it seem like that anyone that wishes to get their dream job must sacrifice family to do so. Which is just complete BS as you like to say.
People work regular 9-5 jobs while looking for a job they will like all the time. Millions of people are doing it every day and aren't sacrificing friend or family to do so. To say that you should just give up looking for your dream job is a very defeatist attitude and you are free to think that way if you want but don't push it off as fact.
P.S. I guarantee that if you stay at a crappy job that you hate your family life will suffer a lot more. You will not be happy and that will come into the home.
| Fact is, if you are working a 9 to 5 job that actually works more than your brain power then you will go home so exhausted that you will come to the impasse of either quitting your job to focus on your career or giving up on your career for a steady income. |
You are passing your own opinion and personal experiences off as facts when they aren't. I am living proof that what you say isn't true. I currently do work a "9-5 job" (Well actually 6:30 - 4:30) and when I get home I still have time to study and look for a better job. I mean really how hard is it to search for job openings and send your resume to them?
Sorry to get on your case but I don't like how you are trying to pass your negative view off as fact when it just isn't true, specially when it is to a young adult which might actually believe it. AceDawg please don't listen to him, you don't have to sacrifice family, friend and whatever to get your dream job, that is just a bunch of nonsense.
I would continue to respond to the rest of your post but it would be more of the same as what I already said so will just leave it here.
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You say I'm negative, but your reply just showed you chose to sacrifice something. You either don't consider it a sacrifice or don't realize it is a sacrifice.
You are giving up time that could be spent with friends, family, or relaxing to study instead and do job searches. Once you get the job you have to still sacrifice the time to stay ahead of the curve so you don't find yourself being replaced by someone who is more qualified.
The one thing you can't sacrifice is financial security. Which is why so many people stick with jobs rather than find their dream job.
You are right, though, people are in their dream jobs (~47% of the US population), but ~29% of them are looking for new jobs because of the economy(according to a study conducted by Bellevue University).
| CodeGazer wrote: |
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| I am living proof that what you say isn't true. I currently do work a "9-5 job" (Well actually 6:30 - 4:30) and when I get home I still have time to study and look for a better job. |
You are giving up time that could be spent with friends, family, or relaxing to study instead and do job searches. Once you get the job you have to still sacrifice the time to stay ahead of the curve so you don't find yourself being replaced by someone who is more qualified.
The one thing you can't sacrifice is financial security. Which is why so many people stick with jobs rather than find their dream job.
| Never sacrifice the financial security of your family for dreams of a career that may or may not pan out. |
You are right, though, people are in their dream jobs (~47% of the US population), but ~29% of them are looking for new jobs because of the economy(according to a study conducted by Bellevue University).
| You say I'm negative, but your reply just showed you chose to sacrifice something. You either don't consider it a sacrifice or don't realize it is a sacrifice. You are giving up time that could be spent with friends, family, or relaxing to study instead and do job searches. |
There you go again trying to grasp at straws and "putting words in peoples mouths". I never once said I sacrificed time with friend and family to search for jobs or study. So please don't don't try and imply that I did.
| Once you get the job you have to still sacrifice the time to stay ahead of the curve so you don't find yourself being replaced by someone who is more qualified. |
It's called finding a balance. Again you making it seem with the word sacrifice that if you try and go for your dream that that everything else must come after that dream job which just isn't true. Yes you might have to spend time keeping up to date but that doesn't mean you don't have time for other things in your life like family, friends and relaxation. You might not get 10 hour nights of sleep (Or even 8 hours) but in my opinion that is more then worth it to make my life happier and my families also (When one person in the families is constantly depressed because of their crappy job the whole family feels the effects).
Also usually companies will not fire you just because they found someone more qualified for a position unless they have good reason to do so (You are slacking off, not completing your work, missing work a lot, etc. etc.).
| The one thing you can't sacrifice is financial security. Which is why so many people stick with jobs rather than find their dream job. |
I don't know how many time I have to say this but you can look for your dream job while working at another job. If you have financial responsibilities that you need to uphold you should never ever quit your current job until you already have another job lined up.
This is just basic common sense here, if you have financial responsibilities then you shouldn't ever take a dream job of yours unless you are sure you can cover those responsibilities. Though most of the time them dream jobs will at least be the same wage/salary as your crappy job if not more, provide more job security and you will be much happier.
So I don't really see why you keep on trying to imply that going for your dream career is a bad thing because you will somehow have to sacrifice your families financial security...
But I won't continue this little debate because it is going no where, I just wanted to let the younger members in this thread know that the world doesn't really work the way you are making it out to be. You can find your dream career while not having to sacrifice family, friends, financial security, relaxation and whatever else you wanna throw out there.
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| CodeGazer wrote: |
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| You can find your dream career while not having to sacrifice family, friends, financial security, relaxation and whatever else you wanna throw out there. |
It is great that you believe that, but there are motivational speakers, TED conversations, articles, and almost every career advisor of colleges say the exact opposite.
| AskMenMotivationalSpeaker wrote: |
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| There is no decision that we can make that doesn’t come with some sort of balance or sacrifice. I accept that my social life suffers for me to focus my energy on the movement — to inspire people to do the things that inspire them. |
| TEDConversation wrote: |
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The desire to live out one's passion always seems to come at a price. The stuff you'll have to give up is not just one but many things. Take a MD to-be for example, other than the sleepless nights and bulk of money he's throwing in just to complete the long and tedious road of education, he would have to endure the pressure coming from the society on various decisions he has to make in life. <talks about being an aspiring doctor> 10 things you need to give up to become a doctor http://www.doceatdoc.com/sacrifices-to-become-a-doctor/ Maybe it's easier said than done but I feel like I'm ready to give them all up except for #6. This dream this passion has been the greatest source of motivation for a slacker like me to work hard in college. What's your passion? Is there a limit to how much you would sacrifice for it? |
Want programming related?
| QuoraSite wrote: |
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| Finally, I have to tell you if you really, really want to learn programming, then a lot of sacrifices are to be done, and parts of a 'social life' WILL be part of your sacrifice. But it is worth it. Personally, I would rather spend a Saturday Night programming rather than dancing, and you should be read to do such sacrifices, because programming is not a small topic - it's one of those things you never ever stop learning. There's always something new to learn and there's always area for improvement. But I need to tell you, that all the effort you will put into it (shall you do it), will really pay for you in the end. It's very rewarding, and you learn more than just programming. |
| CollegeToolKit wrote: |
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| Working as a computer programmer gets more and more challenging after you earn your degree, not easier. Still, it is a rewarding, essential career for those willing to make the sacrifices needed for success. |
You may be right though. All those successful people talking about sacrifice could be completely wrong and misrepresenting the field they are in.
I'm trying to figure out how you'd get anything sold. Don't you have to be like 18 to start a company and for Steam?
closed account (N36fSL3A)
Would the stuff the studio create be property of the adults or the developers in that case?
Okay, my bad, I accidentally unsubscribed to it, so I didn't realize people were responding.
First off:
That sounds a LOT like me. There was actually a school dance tonight, and I stayed home and just programmed the whole time. It is not that I am the person with no friends, it is more than a number of things. 1: none of my friends even go anyway. 2: All the kids that DO go are just the popular jocks, and spend the time grinding on each other as if it was a college party, while the unpopular kids, like me, just kind of stand with a couple friends awkwardly. 3: I am REALLY cynical to the popular kids, so it just is even more awkward.
Anyway, that isn't what this post is about... so, moving on.
I don't think so. It is just a pain to get through Greenlight. Last time I checked, like, 144 out of 500 has made it through. You don't even need a license, I don't think. Unless you don't mind about people taking your game.
By 18+ things, I assume you mean... law stuff? Like, licensing and patenting? What other stuff would there be?
Anyway, after reading everyone's opinions, and doing some research of my own, it would probably be better to just stick with the learning curve. Unless I get like, a billion dollar idea that is possible for me to make. But the chances of that happening with school over my head is pretty unlikely.
First off:
| Finally, I have to tell you if you really, really want to learn programming, then a lot of sacrifices are to be done, and parts of a 'social life' WILL be part of your sacrifice. But it is worth it. Personally, I would rather spend a Saturday Night programming rather than dancing, and you should be read to do such sacrifices, because programming is not a small topic - it's one of those things you never ever stop learning. There's always something new to learn and there's always area for improvement. But I need to tell you, that all the effort you will put into it (shall you do it), will really pay for you in the end. It's very rewarding, and you learn more than just programming. |
That sounds a LOT like me. There was actually a school dance tonight, and I stayed home and just programmed the whole time. It is not that I am the person with no friends, it is more than a number of things. 1: none of my friends even go anyway. 2: All the kids that DO go are just the popular jocks, and spend the time grinding on each other as if it was a college party, while the unpopular kids, like me, just kind of stand with a couple friends awkwardly. 3: I am REALLY cynical to the popular kids, so it just is even more awkward.
Anyway, that isn't what this post is about... so, moving on.
| I'm trying to figure out how you'd get anything sold. Don't you have to be like 18 to start a company and for Steam? |
I don't think so. It is just a pain to get through Greenlight. Last time I checked, like, 144 out of 500 has made it through. You don't even need a license, I don't think. Unless you don't mind about people taking your game.
| His parents or family member would have to do all the 18+ things for him. |
By 18+ things, I assume you mean... law stuff? Like, licensing and patenting? What other stuff would there be?
Anyway, after reading everyone's opinions, and doing some research of my own, it would probably be better to just stick with the learning curve. Unless I get like, a billion dollar idea that is possible for me to make. But the chances of that happening with school over my head is pretty unlikely.
closed account (N36fSL3A)
| 2: All the kids that DO go are just the popular jocks, and spend the time grinding on each other as if it was a college party, while the unpopular kids, like me, just kind of stand with a couple friends awkwardly. |
#offtopic
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A hell of a lot more than 144 games have been greenlit, they go through in batches of 50+ with a new batch every few months.