The Current Ukraine Situation
It seems to me to have the potential to become as big a crises as Cuba? Yet no-one here (in the UK) seems in the slightest bothered by it (most people don't even seem to realize anything is happening in the Ukraine at all). Does anyone know the reasons for intervention by both sides (fossil fuels?)? Does anyone predictions as to what is going to happen?
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closed account (13bSLyTq)
Not much will happen, these sorts of inbalances happen. The only problem is if USA intervenes (Like they always do) there will be a problem even then not many countries want war or will even join a war.
I am assuming it will settle down, in around 6 months.
I am assuming it will settle down, in around 6 months.
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| Not much will happen, these sorts of inbalances happen. |
I am not to sure this is just one of those things that just happen as you say and will pass. Things are getting much more heated and Russian and the other players aren't seeming to "back down" (For lack of a better word), instead they are escalating and all parties seem to be just "throwing the finger to the other party".
Just one example that happened today is a Russian jet fighter make multiple close range passes over a US warship for 90 minutes. This might seem like a little thing but it isn't and if that ship felt threatened enough and shot the jet down all hell would have broke loose.
I don't think this situation will pass anytime soon, instead I believe it has the potential of possibly becoming very serious.
closed account (N36fSL3A)
I have the feeling that we're going to end up trying to "free" the sh*t out of that area.
'murica
'murica
closed account (z05DSL3A)
| Does anyone know the reasons for intervention by both sides (fossil fuels?)? |
| Does anyone predictions as to what is going to happen? |
I am just joining in here... Seems like an interesting conversation.
@ResidentBiscuit I know you are kidding, but WW3 and a Nuclear Winter is possible. The chances of it are EXTREMELY slim, but think about it. USA is less than 70 miles away from Russia (Alaska-wise). That, and we are also extremely close for a nuclear bombing if we send them across the North Pole. But, to get that extreme, something would really have to piss Putin off. World War 3 can happen if America does something (like that crap with sending soldiers and a billion dollars to Ukraine). If we keep doing that, Putin will think were interfering with his rebuilding of the soviets dream and KILL US ALL!!!! -jk. But he will definitely do something. Anyway... WW3 can happen if we piss him off, than our allies come into help. Technically, even that is a world war because more than 2 countries are in the same war. Right? I am just saying stuff I think I know at least. I am right on SOME of the things, right??? It would really suck to feel all intelligent with world politics and then get shot down.
PS: I think Russia should stop "Putin" around.
@ResidentBiscuit I know you are kidding, but WW3 and a Nuclear Winter is possible. The chances of it are EXTREMELY slim, but think about it. USA is less than 70 miles away from Russia (Alaska-wise). That, and we are also extremely close for a nuclear bombing if we send them across the North Pole. But, to get that extreme, something would really have to piss Putin off. World War 3 can happen if America does something (like that crap with sending soldiers and a billion dollars to Ukraine). If we keep doing that, Putin will think were interfering with his rebuilding of the soviets dream and KILL US ALL!!!! -jk. But he will definitely do something. Anyway... WW3 can happen if we piss him off, than our allies come into help. Technically, even that is a world war because more than 2 countries are in the same war. Right? I am just saying stuff I think I know at least. I am right on SOME of the things, right??? It would really suck to feel all intelligent with world politics and then get shot down.
PS: I think Russia should stop "Putin" around.
You can look at the US track record and know they will eventually get involved. As always they will turn a blind eye to the real problems that the US is facing just to help another county with their problems.
| You can look at the US track record and know they will eventually get involved. As always they will turn a blind eye to the real problems that the US is facing just to help another county with their problems. |
You think the US helps other countries with their problems?!!! The US does nothing that isn't for its own gains. For instance, the invasion of Iraq was all about oil, the invasion of Afghanistan was probably to do with ~$trillion dollars worth of rare metals found there and now Ukraine I suspect is to cause stability in global gas prices and to prevent its enemy Russia from gaining too much power (who said the cold war really ended?).
@ Mats: your reply to BHX Specter is pretty much what my own would have been, so thanks for writing my post for me.
Worst case scenario would be a civil war devolving into a world war.
Best case scenario would be the Ukraine splitting into West Ukraine and East Ukraine, with no bloodshed. (East Ukraine could then become part of Russia.)
Of course, the most likely outcome is neither of the above, but something else I didn't consider.
| Mats wrote: |
|---|
| Does anyone predictions as to what is going to happen? |
Worst case scenario would be a civil war devolving into a world war.
Best case scenario would be the Ukraine splitting into West Ukraine and East Ukraine, with no bloodshed. (East Ukraine could then become part of Russia.)
Of course, the most likely outcome is neither of the above, but something else I didn't consider.
I really don't know why Russia is trying to annex stuff. Isn't Russia large enough? It is because of the Soviet Union reforming, if I am right.
| I really don't know why Russia is trying to annex stuff. Isn't Russia large enough? It is because of the Soviet Union reforming, if I am right. |
Having had some time to think about this... Perhaps the Ukraine actually adds considerable man power and industry to the Russian economy. Perhaps Putin just wants total control over the price at which he sells gas to the citizens of the country. Perhaps Putin has just gone a bit power mad, a well known psychological effect of having great power for long periods. Maybe all of the above.
@Catfish666 - Some other scenarios:
-A newly elected democratic government governs a united, independent Ukraine.
-Ukraine splits with all sides technically being at war without shots being fired (Cyprus type situation).
-Putin invades the Ukraine and no-one from the west retaliates due to fear of nuclear war.
It *could* escalate to a world war. Maybe mankind needs a nuclear war to teach us not to ever do it again. <_<
| Mats wrote: |
|---|
| You think the US helps other countries with their problems?!!! The US does nothing that isn't for its own gains. For instance, the invasion of Iraq was all about oil, the invasion of Afghanistan was probably to do with ~$trillion dollars worth of rare metals found there and now Ukraine I suspect is to cause stability in global gas prices and to prevent its enemy Russia from gaining too much power (who said the cold war really ended?). |
What was the gain for Vietnam, Somalia, or Korea? WWI and WWII were rather obvious global gains for being involved.
closed account (D80DSL3A)
I assume the Cuban missile crisis of Oct. 1962 is the event referred to in the opening post.
We came closer to nuclear war in Jan. 1995.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwegian_rocket_incident
The event "was the first and only incident where any nuclear weapons state had its nuclear suitcases activated and prepared for launching an attack."
Despite prior notification being given!
Scary stuff!!
We came closer to nuclear war in Jan. 1995.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwegian_rocket_incident
The event "was the first and only incident where any nuclear weapons state had its nuclear suitcases activated and prepared for launching an attack."
Despite prior notification being given!
Scary stuff!!
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| What was the gain for Vietnam, Somalia, or Korea? |
Vietnam was basically indirect combat against the USSR during the cold war. It was seen as a highly negative occurrence for a pro-communist government to be installed there. How do you not know about this being an American?
Korea is a similar story.
The Somali intervention was to gain votes for an election.
@fun2code - Very interesting! I had no idea about that incident.
I remember hearing a bunch of the world leaders saying they spoke with Putin about the situation and he seems out of his mind... So maybe it could be another Hitler type situation, except without genocide on a religion... but maybe something drove Putin mad like Hitler's childhood german shepard drove Hitler mad (Always Sunny in Philadelphia reference...)
But about what Mats said is absolutely right:
Humans are just going to be war hungry and want complete control over everything until we end up blowing ourselves up. Even then we might not even realize our ways...
Anybody else ever think what the world would be like if humans were more... civil (<- ?) and there was only one large country in the world, and having no leaders, just law enforcement, and sort of a PTO type thing, where the people just meet, discuss problems, and come up with a way to fix it. If we only had a couple wars and realized it got us nowhere, then think about how much more advanced humanity would be. We wouldn't have to fund our military and focus on important things, like food... or research. We spend billions of dollars each month on just weapons. Why? We have plenty!
But about what Mats said is absolutely right:
| Maybe mankind needs a nuclear war to teach us not to ever do it again. |
Humans are just going to be war hungry and want complete control over everything until we end up blowing ourselves up. Even then we might not even realize our ways...
Anybody else ever think what the world would be like if humans were more... civil (<- ?) and there was only one large country in the world, and having no leaders, just law enforcement, and sort of a PTO type thing, where the people just meet, discuss problems, and come up with a way to fix it. If we only had a couple wars and realized it got us nowhere, then think about how much more advanced humanity would be. We wouldn't have to fund our military and focus on important things, like food... or research. We spend billions of dollars each month on just weapons. Why? We have plenty!
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I don't have better version, so here it is - english sound, polish subtitles.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWIpFvGrNak
This vid pretty much describes what's happening in Ukraine. And I'm feeling kind of neutral towards it. First of all - We're no Ukraine. And while all propaganda tells us it's simple - it's not. People in Ukraine aren't united - because of many things, like Russian influence because of Rus borders, historical influences, and such - some people really wish they were Russian. Some people probably don't care too much, and some would rather be russian and know who's their leader, than so called "Government" of Ukraine, that isn't really too competent, nor democratic.
And there's also a thing mentioned in video I provided - basically Russia is playing Chess with Ukraine - and they have prepared for this game.
So, one thing is that Russia is most likely cheating, playing dirty games and conquering Ukraine (or at least part of it). But other thing is how EU and USA are reacting. They sure don't like what's happening, and they talk a lot. They also try to prevent Russia from making any moves, but they aren't interested in helping Ukraine - because Ukraine isn't tied to EU nor USA with any pact that would make EU or USA to help them. And politic is based on cold calculations, not emotions.
And that's only the first glance at situation, not considering USA and EU interests.
Russia isn't making anything good, but at the same time I'm far from agreeing with news stations in here, that tend to describe Russia as a monster. They're having silent war with Ukraine, but this is the best kind of war we can get - they got Crimea without human casualties (excluding few dead, which is nothing compared to ANY battle).
My bet is that Ukraine doesn't mean WW yet, but if Russia reaches for other countries, then it may be dangerous.
PS. And if you watch the video, you will realize that USSR doesn't look so crazy anymore - all the peculiar things happening in there had some purpose(well, most of them).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWIpFvGrNak
This vid pretty much describes what's happening in Ukraine. And I'm feeling kind of neutral towards it. First of all - We're no Ukraine. And while all propaganda tells us it's simple - it's not. People in Ukraine aren't united - because of many things, like Russian influence because of Rus borders, historical influences, and such - some people really wish they were Russian. Some people probably don't care too much, and some would rather be russian and know who's their leader, than so called "Government" of Ukraine, that isn't really too competent, nor democratic.
And there's also a thing mentioned in video I provided - basically Russia is playing Chess with Ukraine - and they have prepared for this game.
So, one thing is that Russia is most likely cheating, playing dirty games and conquering Ukraine (or at least part of it). But other thing is how EU and USA are reacting. They sure don't like what's happening, and they talk a lot. They also try to prevent Russia from making any moves, but they aren't interested in helping Ukraine - because Ukraine isn't tied to EU nor USA with any pact that would make EU or USA to help them. And politic is based on cold calculations, not emotions.
And that's only the first glance at situation, not considering USA and EU interests.
Russia isn't making anything good, but at the same time I'm far from agreeing with news stations in here, that tend to describe Russia as a monster. They're having silent war with Ukraine, but this is the best kind of war we can get - they got Crimea without human casualties (excluding few dead, which is nothing compared to ANY battle).
My bet is that Ukraine doesn't mean WW yet, but if Russia reaches for other countries, then it may be dangerous.
PS. And if you watch the video, you will realize that USSR doesn't look so crazy anymore - all the peculiar things happening in there had some purpose(well, most of them).
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| Mats wrote: |
|---|
| How do you not know about this being an American? |
Depending on the generation you will get completely different accounts of the wars we had. When I was in school all our history books were majorly pro-American making it sound like we were getting involved to help in two civil wars where the Soviets and Chinese were trying to impose their will on the countries. I was in the 5th grade when they said the Cold War was over so by the time they would have updated the books I would have been in middle school.
In my school you learned history 1st - 6th, 7th - 9th was Geography, Sophomore was American History (but it was a team class with Literature and Tools of the Trade so we didn't do much actual history...only thing I remember is doing a report on Japanese Internment Camps during WWII), Junior was sociology (current events), and Senior was US Government. After that I rarely cared about history unless it was something to do with game ideas. I've never been big on history so after I graduated high school I didn't bother keeping up to date or finding where the books were wrong at.
| I really don't know why Russia is trying to annex stuff. |
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