I hate sports and sport culture
| Well it actually is very relevant considering that he said that he doesn't like watching sports. |
Nope, no relevance at all as you are talking about playing and he was asking about watching.
@Disch
I'm like you, I don't care about sports at all. I had to play baseball, basketball, football, dodgeball, tennis, run track, and swim as part of PE in 7th, 8th, freshman, and sophomore years. I can't stand watching any sports, but oddly I don't mind playing PS3 games of baseball, football, golf, and tennis.
Luc Lieber wrote:
Ha. Good one. I also don't understand why people give away their entire childhood plus more just for a circle made of gold. (olympic gold medals).
| Fixed that for you. Seriously though...the only real sport is alligator and/or bear wrestling. |
Ha. Good one. I also don't understand why people give away their entire childhood plus more just for a circle made of gold. (olympic gold medals).
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closed account (3hM2Nwbp)
| AceDawg45 wrote: |
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| Good one. |
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| Exactly what metrics are you using to conclude athletes are overpaid? |
http://ftw.usatoday.com/2013/10/average-career-earnings-nfl-nba-mlb-nhl-mls/
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multimedia/photo_gallery/0807/nfl.average.salaries.by.position/content.1.html
http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/8724285/mlb-average-salary-38-percent-32-million
http://www.ehow.com/about_7504464_average-salary-average-nfl-coach.html
And that is just coaches/players. Nevermind what the owners/networks make.
Compare that to a profession that actually matters:
http://www.drexel.com/online-degrees/nursing-degrees/nursing-salary-guide/index.aspx
On average, nurses literally make less than 10% what a pro sports player does in the US.
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Professional athletes generate a lot of money for the sport they play in. In turn they get paid a piece of that revenue they help bring in. How vital they are to the upkeep of society is irrelevant to how vital they are to the entity employing the worker. Michael Jordan brought billions of dollars into the NBA,and millions into the Bulls organization but his salary wasn't near what he helped generate. In that case you can say he was underpaid.
Nurses aren't anywhere scarce enough for their potential employer to think if we don't hire this one,then we can't get another one. Doctors in the medical field get paid more but they being more helpful to society is coincidental to the fact that they are few in number which is why hospitals are willing to pay them more.
Cops,firefighters,marines,construction workers,are more important than comedians,movie stars etc but that does not matter in capitalism when the employer decides your salary.
Nurses aren't anywhere scarce enough for their potential employer to think if we don't hire this one,then we can't get another one. Doctors in the medical field get paid more but they being more helpful to society is coincidental to the fact that they are few in number which is why hospitals are willing to pay them more.
Cops,firefighters,marines,construction workers,are more important than comedians,movie stars etc but that does not matter in capitalism when the employer decides your salary.
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| On average, nurses literally make less than 10% what a pro sports player does in the US. |
sandra bulloc made more money pretending to be an astronaut than the astronauts that go to the moon
You have to realize that though it seems like athletes are being overpaid, it is the value that the company puts on the player that matters. Sure, playing on an athletic team is quite meaningless in terms of global advancement. However, it is the fact that so many people watch these events that allow for companies to convince a larger audience to buy their product. The money spent for this privilege is shoveled into the company that owns the team, and is divided according to whatever contract they signed (which, in itself, put a metric on the advertisement revenue that the player would earn for the company). The sporting events also funnel people into nearby small businesses, giving them additional revenue that would otherwise never come to be. It doesn't matter whether sports culture makes sense; it pays bills for more than just the athletes. Remove sports entirely, and the economic fallout would be tremendous.
As for Olympic sports, since that seems to have been brought into the fray here... I seriously doubt that the athlete gives a damn about the gold medal. If anything, it is more-so the ability to have some sort of nationalistic pride in yourself and your country, and showing that economical, technological, political, and any other superiority be damned when it comes to the world of athletics. Can you think of any other situation where Belarus would trump the entire global stage (they won the biathlon this year, if I recall)? I certainly can't. Same goes for several other countries that win. That, and again the whole large viewership- opportunity for mass advertisement- sponsorships- money goes back into the athlete's training and personal life.
Think of it this way- the pay of any given person is based on rarity, skill, and yield. A nurse is a dime-a-dozen, has a varying level of skill, and yields a small amount of income for the hospital. Hence, their pay is rather minimal compared to an athlete. An actually-skilled athlete is rare, can potentially receive status as a household name, and yields millions in profits for the company; hence the seemingly-disproportionate pay. It isn't that nurses are undervalued; there are just a significantly large amount of nurses that qualify for any given position. Seriously, nursing degrees are starting to go the way of law degrees right now. For those who are unaware, law degrees... well, that bubble has popped.
As for Olympic sports, since that seems to have been brought into the fray here... I seriously doubt that the athlete gives a damn about the gold medal. If anything, it is more-so the ability to have some sort of nationalistic pride in yourself and your country, and showing that economical, technological, political, and any other superiority be damned when it comes to the world of athletics. Can you think of any other situation where Belarus would trump the entire global stage (they won the biathlon this year, if I recall)? I certainly can't. Same goes for several other countries that win. That, and again the whole large viewership- opportunity for mass advertisement- sponsorships- money goes back into the athlete's training and personal life.
Think of it this way- the pay of any given person is based on rarity, skill, and yield. A nurse is a dime-a-dozen, has a varying level of skill, and yields a small amount of income for the hospital. Hence, their pay is rather minimal compared to an athlete. An actually-skilled athlete is rare, can potentially receive status as a household name, and yields millions in profits for the company; hence the seemingly-disproportionate pay. It isn't that nurses are undervalued; there are just a significantly large amount of nurses that qualify for any given position. Seriously, nursing degrees are starting to go the way of law degrees right now. For those who are unaware, law degrees... well, that bubble has popped.
Revenue from professional sports is only indirectly generated by the athletes themselves. Most of the revenue comes (I gather) from sponsoring, broadcasting deals, and merchandising.
While it's true that if they didn't play, there would be no revenue, the work itself that they do is inherently worthless.
Who decides someone's salary has no bearing on whether that someone is under or overpaid.
While it's true that if they didn't play, there would be no revenue, the work itself that they do is inherently worthless.
Who decides someone's salary has no bearing on whether that someone is under or overpaid.
Okay, first:
Don't athletes (for mainstream sports) get paid like, a million dollars a game? That could be wrong, and it probably is, but I know that the good athletes make around 20million a year! They get paid 20 million a year to throw a ball around, and yet the men enlisted in the US Military make 17 thousand (last time I checked a private made 17k a year) a year, and they are the ones that could die any day of their lives! They come back from Afghanistan (or wherever we're fighting) and get absolutely nothing! And teachers' salaries are just nuts. They have to put up with a bunch of loud, uncooperative kids 7 hours a day (at least the ones in my school do), and they are paid ridiculously low salaries.
And second:
@Luc Lieber wow that is really a sport? Those are the kind of sports I like. Not like, wrestling animals that are capable of killing me, but just, small sports people do just for the fun of it, and don't take it serious enough that they are throwing water coolers onto the field, which happens to my brother's baseball coach every other game.
Don't athletes (for mainstream sports) get paid like, a million dollars a game? That could be wrong, and it probably is, but I know that the good athletes make around 20million a year! They get paid 20 million a year to throw a ball around, and yet the men enlisted in the US Military make 17 thousand (last time I checked a private made 17k a year) a year, and they are the ones that could die any day of their lives! They come back from Afghanistan (or wherever we're fighting) and get absolutely nothing! And teachers' salaries are just nuts. They have to put up with a bunch of loud, uncooperative kids 7 hours a day (at least the ones in my school do), and they are paid ridiculously low salaries.
And second:
@Luc Lieber wow that is really a sport? Those are the kind of sports I like. Not like, wrestling animals that are capable of killing me, but just, small sports people do just for the fun of it, and don't take it serious enough that they are throwing water coolers onto the field, which happens to my brother's baseball coach every other game.
closed account (N36fSL3A)
Maybe it's because people don't like watching people get their heads blown off. They like the rush you get from watching sports games. The reason they get paid so much is because so many people watch them, and in turn they get more money from sponsors to place their advertisements on TV.
So what if sports people get paid a lot more than soldiers, it doesn't matter. You can't just say that you don't want people to get paid more, and they get5 paid more, it doesn't work like that. Soldiers might be doing something morally better than sports people, but it's just tough luck.
PE is a class that you're required to take. It's completely different from actually playing a sport because you want to.
So what if sports people get paid a lot more than soldiers, it doesn't matter. You can't just say that you don't want people to get paid more, and they get5 paid more, it doesn't work like that. Soldiers might be doing something morally better than sports people, but it's just tough luck.
| BHXSpecter wrote: |
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| I'm like you, I don't care about sports at all. I had to play baseball, basketball, football, dodgeball, tennis, run track, and swim as part of PE in 7th, 8th, freshman, and sophomore years. I can't stand watching any sports, but oddly I don't mind playing PS3 games of baseball, football, golf, and tennis. |
| Fredbill wrote: |
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| PE is a class that you're required to take. |
Yes, the class is, but when I was taking it you had the choice of playing or doing some other activity like jump rope, walking, as long as it kept you moving.
| Fredbill wrote: |
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| It's completely different from actually playing a sport because you want to. |
Then you may want to look into some of the players past. Some players that became great players were either groomed by their parents (forced). There were some that even did it to avoid going to jail (again not a want).
| Fredbill wrote: |
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| So what if sports people get paid a lot more than soldiers, it doesn't matter. |
Being a soldier is far more dangerous than sports and the only way out is finishing your service time, severe injury, or death.
closed account (N36fSL3A)
| BHXSpecter wrote: |
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| Yes, the class is, but when I was taking it you had the choice of playing or doing some other activity like jump rope, walking, as long as it kept you moving. |
| Then you may want to look into some of the players past. Some players that became great players were either groomed by their parents (forced). There were some that even did it to avoid going to jail (again not a want) |
| Being a soldier is far more dangerous than sports and the only way out is finishing your service time, severe injury, or death. |
Maybe you should read posts more carefully.
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Helios I just explained why athletes,celebrities etc get paid the way they do, why do we keep going back to the impact a profession has on society when that is not a factor in a capitalist economy? I never said that how much an employer gives out determines who is under or overpaid, I just said thats why they get paid that amount. I did say that how important an employee is to the employer, not society determines one's salary,and given that basis who am i to say who is under or overpaid based on rationale our current system does not support?
And if we did pay police,firefighters,soldiers proportional to their impact on society given that we can actually quantify that impact,we can see a surplus in that field because people tend to follow the money.In which case one could rationalize that police are important but due to the surplus, you the individual are not and the pay would have to come down.
And if we did pay police,firefighters,soldiers proportional to their impact on society given that we can actually quantify that impact,we can see a surplus in that field because people tend to follow the money.In which case one could rationalize that police are important but due to the surplus, you the individual are not and the pay would have to come down.
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| Fredbill wrote: |
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| Okay that's completely unrelated to what I was getting at. |
No it isn't. You said there is a difference between wanting to play and being made to play, but I simply pointed out that a few of the players are where they are now because of being forced either by parents or the need to stay out of jail. I have a friend's son who is going to college on a track scholarship, but he hates track and only doing it because his mom (my friend's wife) is making him do it.
| Fredbill wrote: |
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| That went right over your head. |
You said it didn't matter that sports players got paid more than soldiers. Being a soldier is more dangerous, so it isn't tough luck, it is just fact that they should be paid more. Putting your life on the line to protect this country is a million times more important than any sport and should be paid accordingly.
It truly horrifies me that we hold athletes higher than those who put their lives on the line daily. Athletes are so ungrateful that they have repeatedly went on strike wanting more pay, but when is the last time you heard a soldier striking and refusing to defend the country?
Maybe when you get older you will understand and rethink ever saying it doesn't matter that they get paid less than athletes.
| Cody wrote: |
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| Professional athletes generate a lot of money for the sport they play in. |
Your post generally points out many things that I dislike about American capitalism. Most of it I agree with. But the notion that someone making millions of dollars (in any field) is underpaid is just lunacy.
If you make 7 figures, you are not underpaid. I don't care what you do for a living. Nobody should be making that much money.
| Cody wrote: |
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| Nurses aren't anywhere scarce enough for their potential employer to think if we don't hire this one,then we can't get another one |
You're saying that sports players are paid so much because they're so scarce? That's laughable.
If every pro sport player died overnight, they'd be replaced in minutes. There are waaay more people lined up to get into pro sports than there are people trying to get into nursing. Or pretty much any other job.
| Little Bobby Tables wrote: |
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| sandra bulloc made more money pretending to be an astronaut than the astronauts that go to the moon |
Yes. I hate Hollywood culture as well. Which is one of the many reasons why I never go to the movies, and pirate virtually everything I watch. Though Hollywood culture is less despicable.
| Ispil wrote: |
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| Think of it this way- the pay of any given person is based on rarity, skill, and yield. |
You're trying to oversimplify how pay is arranged. It's more complex than that.
You guys aren't telling me anything I don't already know. I know the sports industry has a lot of money and I know that's why everyone involved in it makes a lot of money.
I just hate that that's reality because I hate that industry.
| Fredbill wrote: |
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| So what if sports people get paid a lot more than soldiers, it doesn't matter. You can't just say that you don't want people to get paid more, and they get5 paid more, it doesn't work like that. |
I never said it worked like that.
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The people trying to get into pro sports is irrelevant to those who actually get into pro sports which is a low percentage. If every pro sport player died they would be replaced with less talented players and the sport would bring in less revenue. This is exactly what happened when the NFL had a lockout in the 70s and brought in replacement players thinking that the former ones on strike could be replaced. If every good actor,director,writer died, would you think that the quality of the entertainment you pirate would go down, or can everyone make a good movie,sitcom,tv show?
| This is exactly what happened when the NFL had a lockout in the 70s and brought in replacement players thinking that the former ones on strike could be replaced. |
Point taken. I'll concede on this one and just say you're right.
| If every good actor,director,writer died, would you think that the quality of the entertainment you pirate would go down, or can everyone make a good movie,sitcom,tv show? |
It'd be hard for it to go down... it's already extremely bad.
For every 1 television show that I genuinely like, there are 200 that are too awful to watch.
My favorite show right now is a YouTube series.
My favorite music group right now is from England.
My favorite game right now is a freeware fan game.
With the exception of Breaking Bad, the American entertainment industry has been complete shit for like a decade.
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Hmm... well, if you do think about sports culture in a different sense, it takes a whole different sort of meaning. Hell, the entire entertainment industry falls on this one basis. Human life, as a member of society, is the most soul-crushing and miserable experience possible. The concept of "success" seems to force us to shove true happiness aside in the hopes that it will eventually be reached later. For most of us, it never is reached. If you think about it, most of us hate our jobs and are stressed by the collision of societal tendencies and primitive instinct. The entertainment industry gives us a way out, in a way. Being able to imagine a life that is actually far more enjoyable (or at least less boring) gives our minds something to ponder when returning to whatever mundane existence we hold. Sporting culture is just the easiest way to revert to tribal mechanisms ("my team is better. No, my team is better. Wanna fight? *proceed to fight") and distance themselves from reality.
Disch, I'd also like to point out that though a single show has pleased you in a decade through the "American entertainment industry" over the past decade, that does not make it shit. That just makes you picky as all-hell. If it were truly shit, it wouldn't exist. And if you mention that it is because they use marketing techniques to suck in people to be dumb saps and watch whatever they crap out and that it is because you pirate everything (spitefully) and only watch a show on Youtube that you are then above such things... Well, you're just inflating your own ego, If that's the case, inflate away.
Disch, I'd also like to point out that though a single show has pleased you in a decade through the "American entertainment industry" over the past decade, that does not make it shit. That just makes you picky as all-hell. If it were truly shit, it wouldn't exist. And if you mention that it is because they use marketing techniques to suck in people to be dumb saps and watch whatever they crap out and that it is because you pirate everything (spitefully) and only watch a show on Youtube that you are then above such things... Well, you're just inflating your own ego, If that's the case, inflate away.