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| Then there are sane people who are capable of thinking critically and for themselves. |
@htwirwin: what if you put in a lot of thought and research into it, and have come to the conclusion that a certain conspiracy isnt true? such as:
-sandy hook didnt happen
-or the holocaust
-9/11 was caused by bush and the 20 dollar bill is proof.
these arent me, but would someone still be a moron if they did research on it and came to those conclusions?
-sandy hook didnt happen
-or the holocaust
-9/11 was caused by bush and the 20 dollar bill is proof.
these arent me, but would someone still be a moron if they did research on it and came to those conclusions?
| @BHX you can keep your head buried in the sand and surround yourself with yes people but I will not change my view of what is the real situation. |
Burying my head in the sand is better than burying my head in my ass and believing in fabricated stories in a book. Let's see what seems to be the general consensus about the autors:
Mike Bara:
Mike Bara is an author of unintentional fiction, and a general laughing-stock among those who actually understand physics, astronomy, and the history of spaceflight. He describes himself as "a born-again conspiracy theorist." He has written three and a half books, whose defining feature is the total, laughable, inaccuracy of anything in the realm of science. He has appeared as a talking head on the all-bullshit TV series Ancient Aliens, again making frequent howling errors of the type that would make a 6th grade science student cringe. Bara is an evolution denier. |
Richard C. Hoagland:
Richard Charles Hoagland, (born April 25, 1945 in Morristown, New Jersey) is an American author, and a proponent of various conspiracy theories about NASA, lost alien civilizations on the Moon and on Mars and other related topics. His writings claim that advanced civilizations exist or once existed on the Moon, Mars and on some of the moons of Jupiter and Saturn, and that NASA and the United States government have conspired to keep these facts secret. He has advocated his ideas in two published books, videos, lectures, interviews, and press conferences. His views have never been published in peer-reviewed journals. Hoagland has been described by James Oberg of The Space Review and Dr. Phil Plait of Badastronomy.com as a conspiracy theorist and fringe pseudoscientist. |
In other words, you are believing a book written by two crack-pot conspiracy theorists who are only making books to spread their idiocy. If their books are so factual then Metal Gear Solid is real and the governments of the world have bipedal nuclear equipped battle tanks secretly waiting for the right time to start World War 3.
| @htwirwin: what if you put in a lot of thought and research into it, and have come to the conclusion that a certain conspiracy isnt true? such as: -sandy hook didnt happen -or the holocaust -9/11 was caused by bush and the 20 dollar bill is proof. these arent me, but would someone still be a moron if they did research on it and came to those conclusions? |
You missed my point. I'm talking about the people who illogically deny that an arbitrary conspiracy could exist; People that are under some kind of delusion about the way the world works usually perpetuated by group thought.
For example, people will relate conspiracy in general to specific examples of conspiracies theories you think are ridiculous. Suddenly all conspiracies are associated with this ridiculousness and get the same responses. Then people are able to write off or ridicule any possible conspiracy without logic, research or critical thinking.
The example I gave of two people standing around chatting about how stupid people are to believe that people are manipulating the weather via cloud seeding; lumping the people they are making fun of into the same category as the other nuts that believe in other conspiracies... Little did they realize that cloud seeding is big business and is in operation every single day, not in secret at all.
They exemplify the morons I am talking about, and their intellectual shortcomings are at least as deleterious to society as the lunatics because the social phenomena they are a part of gives those who are committing acts in secret free unquestioned reign.
Then there are people who are gullible enough to believe anything.
The thing they share in common is that their views are not a product of research or logic, but instead they are a product of social trends, or of believing what they want to believe with little or no evidence. Usually it is enhanced through communication of forms which are able to subtly persuade or support the view without relying on logic, or evidence. Commonly it is done through ridicule, driving the transfer of information into an emotional exchange rather than logical.
Of course the division is not a fine line. It's a flaw that almost (maybe all of us) possess, but some demonstrate to levels significant enough to deem moronic.
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On the subject of secret technology, and the UFO prank (an excellent prank ComptuerGeek), anyone actually have an odd experience with seeing something in the sky?
Understand the story I'm about to relate is just what I saw, I'm not claiming there are aliens on earth, or that the government is hiding super advanced spaceships.
I was spending the weekend (in the summer) camping with my family in Idaho at Grandad Lake. My dad and I were out fishing on the Lake, and there was a forest fire (west of the lake I think, but I'm probably wrong) so every once in a while a helicopter would fly by. (For some reason I never saw any of them fill their buckets from the lake). The helicopters going by gave me a sense of how fast something will go by in the sky. Well, in broad daylight, I see this big metallic top shaped thing going by. I'm actually standing there looking at this in broad daylight. I couldn't look at it long though, as it was going seemingly a bit faster than the helicopters were, and it was already close to going over a mountain when I spotted it. Since it was over the horizon so quickly, I had no chance to point it out to my dad. I simply never said anything of it to my family.
Please don't take this as one of those crazy "oh my god aliens are here, the government is in league with them". All I am saying is that whatever it was it wasn't a weather balloon, plane, or helicopter, or anything else that I can think of. Would be interested to hear if someone could tell me what it was.
Understand the story I'm about to relate is just what I saw, I'm not claiming there are aliens on earth, or that the government is hiding super advanced spaceships.
I was spending the weekend (in the summer) camping with my family in Idaho at Grandad Lake. My dad and I were out fishing on the Lake, and there was a forest fire (west of the lake I think, but I'm probably wrong) so every once in a while a helicopter would fly by. (For some reason I never saw any of them fill their buckets from the lake). The helicopters going by gave me a sense of how fast something will go by in the sky. Well, in broad daylight, I see this big metallic top shaped thing going by. I'm actually standing there looking at this in broad daylight. I couldn't look at it long though, as it was going seemingly a bit faster than the helicopters were, and it was already close to going over a mountain when I spotted it. Since it was over the horizon so quickly, I had no chance to point it out to my dad. I simply never said anything of it to my family.
Please don't take this as one of those crazy "oh my god aliens are here, the government is in league with them". All I am saying is that whatever it was it wasn't a weather balloon, plane, or helicopter, or anything else that I can think of. Would be interested to hear if someone could tell me what it was.
Could it have been one of those 'remote controlled UFO' thingies that you can get? They move pretty quickly, and their small size relative to a helicopter can make it seem like they are moving faster, because they are closer to you but you might think it is the same distance away.
It's really hard to say without any detail (photos) what it was, but the sky is really surprisingly full of stuff: Aircraft in all shapes and sizes, helicopters, balloons, remote control planes/helicopters, drones, things returning from falling and even occasional things returning from space. There are also atmospheric effects which can create the illusion of things being there, which are actually coming from distant sources of strong light (forest fire?). From what you vaguely said and how many options there are, I wouldn't like to even guess at what you saw.
Or maybe you can find it on this chart? http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/47/5b/93/475b9311b6d88be76a4bb099d61aec25.jpg
Or maybe you can find it on this chart? http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/47/5b/93/475b9311b6d88be76a4bb099d61aec25.jpg
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After more research, I suspect that what I saw was likely a military experiment with rare plasma phenomena similar to ball lightning.
This is based on the declassied UK Ministry of Defense report on Operation Condign ( UFO study ).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_triangle_(UFO)
To explain why I think this is likely the case I will describe my experience.
I was at my moms house in a rural town. At about 1 AM on a Saturday night, I was woken up by a loud and sort of strange sounding aircraft. The sound had persisted for about fifteen minutes so I decided to go outside and check it out.
So I go outside and start scanning the night sky for the source of the sound. I could still hear it, but could not find it for a few minutes. Finally I saw the aircraft exiting the horizon. Then as I was staring directly up at the night sky ( it was sort of hazy, and I couldn't really see the stars in some parts of the sky ) directly above me I saw 3 electric blue white plasma circles in the shape of a triangle appear and then shoot across the sky and disappear in under 2 seconds. There was no sound associated with it at all. The three circles of light were symmetrical in the shape of a triangle, what seamed about the size of a car and about 80 feet over my head. The circles of light were about 1/4 the width of the triangle they made in diameter. It shot across the sky in a strait line, and as it moved it looked visually looked like three blue white streaks due to the speed of motion.
I recall distinctly that minutes after the event, the haze that had been obstructing the stars had dissipated and the entire horizon was clear. I remember having the feeling that whatever it was, the atmospheric conditions might be a relevant factor because it seamed like the weather was special in some hard to explain way.
Then, one week later, again on a Saturday, at about 1 AM again, I heard the same aircraft flying around. I went outside, and again it finally exited the horizon. I was staring up at the sky again, and again, I saw 3 blue white circles of light appear and shoot off, but this time, the glow wasn't as intense, and it didn't shoot off in a strait line. The motion was erratic. It shot downward, then upward, then looked like it made a 80 degree turn bending around a tree and towards the ground before disappearing. It seamed very low, and at the speed and trajectory it was at, and how low it was, I though it must have gone right into the ground, and I ran into the back yard where it appeared to have shot downward towards the ground, but there wasn't any sign of anything at all. The weather was pretty much the same as the previous Saturday, and again the haziness blocking the stars dissipated shortly after the event.
Anyways, I think it could have been either some kind of rare plasma phenomena that is associated with rare atmospheric conditions, and that the craft flying around was attempting to observe the phenomena. Or, it could have been that the conditions were right for experimenting with triggering the phenomena, or creating the phenomena artificially. The fact that both events happened at the same time of night on Saturdays leads me to think it is likely the second possibility.
This is based on the declassied UK Ministry of Defense report on Operation Condign ( UFO study ).
| The report concluded that UFOs had an observable presence that was “indisputable”, but also that they did not represent crafts under intelligent control. [1][3] According to its author/s the majority of analyzed UFO sightings can be explained by the misidentification of common objects such as aircraft and balloons, while the remaining unexplainable reports were most likely the result of a supernormal meteorological phenomena not fully understood by modern science. [1][3] This phenomenon is referred to in the report as "Buoyant Plasma Formation," akin to Ball Lightning, and is hypothesized to produce an unexplained energy field which creates the appearance of a Black Triangle by refracting light. The electromagnetic fields generated by plasma phenomena are also hypothesized to explain reports of close encounters due to inducing perceptual alterations or hallucinations in those affected.[4] The Condign report suggests that further research into "novel military applications" of this plasma phenomenon is warranted, and that "the implications have already been briefed to the relevant MoD technology managers."[5] The report also notes that scientists in the former Soviet Union have identified the close connection between the 'UFO Phenomena' and Plasma technologies," and are "pursuing related techniques for potential military purposes. |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_triangle_(UFO)
To explain why I think this is likely the case I will describe my experience.
I was at my moms house in a rural town. At about 1 AM on a Saturday night, I was woken up by a loud and sort of strange sounding aircraft. The sound had persisted for about fifteen minutes so I decided to go outside and check it out.
So I go outside and start scanning the night sky for the source of the sound. I could still hear it, but could not find it for a few minutes. Finally I saw the aircraft exiting the horizon. Then as I was staring directly up at the night sky ( it was sort of hazy, and I couldn't really see the stars in some parts of the sky ) directly above me I saw 3 electric blue white plasma circles in the shape of a triangle appear and then shoot across the sky and disappear in under 2 seconds. There was no sound associated with it at all. The three circles of light were symmetrical in the shape of a triangle, what seamed about the size of a car and about 80 feet over my head. The circles of light were about 1/4 the width of the triangle they made in diameter. It shot across the sky in a strait line, and as it moved it looked visually looked like three blue white streaks due to the speed of motion.
I recall distinctly that minutes after the event, the haze that had been obstructing the stars had dissipated and the entire horizon was clear. I remember having the feeling that whatever it was, the atmospheric conditions might be a relevant factor because it seamed like the weather was special in some hard to explain way.
Then, one week later, again on a Saturday, at about 1 AM again, I heard the same aircraft flying around. I went outside, and again it finally exited the horizon. I was staring up at the sky again, and again, I saw 3 blue white circles of light appear and shoot off, but this time, the glow wasn't as intense, and it didn't shoot off in a strait line. The motion was erratic. It shot downward, then upward, then looked like it made a 80 degree turn bending around a tree and towards the ground before disappearing. It seamed very low, and at the speed and trajectory it was at, and how low it was, I though it must have gone right into the ground, and I ran into the back yard where it appeared to have shot downward towards the ground, but there wasn't any sign of anything at all. The weather was pretty much the same as the previous Saturday, and again the haziness blocking the stars dissipated shortly after the event.
Anyways, I think it could have been either some kind of rare plasma phenomena that is associated with rare atmospheric conditions, and that the craft flying around was attempting to observe the phenomena. Or, it could have been that the conditions were right for experimenting with triggering the phenomena, or creating the phenomena artificially. The fact that both events happened at the same time of night on Saturdays leads me to think it is likely the second possibility.
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@NT3 I ruled out that it was small but close, because if that was the case it wouldn't have went over the mountains.
@Mats
I hope you're joking, that forest fire was miles away, we couldn't even smell the smoke from it. It's hard to imagine it was influencing anything where we were at, and even so, I really doubt it could have created that kind of illusion. Fires in the day don't make the area any brighter by the way.
Some main points
1.) It was metallic, and was shaped a lot like a top.
2.) Since it went over the mountains, it had to be a ways away, and since it appeared only a bit smaller than the helicopters, it must have been large.
3.) It's hard to think there was some weird weather occurrence going on. There were almost no clouds that day, little wind, just doesn't make sense. Of course, I'm no meteorologist or anything of the sort.
4.) If it was an illusion from weather, that would be an amazing illusion, as the shape was very well defined and solid.
@Mats
I hope you're joking, that forest fire was miles away, we couldn't even smell the smoke from it. It's hard to imagine it was influencing anything where we were at, and even so, I really doubt it could have created that kind of illusion. Fires in the day don't make the area any brighter by the way.
Some main points
1.) It was metallic, and was shaped a lot like a top.
2.) Since it went over the mountains, it had to be a ways away, and since it appeared only a bit smaller than the helicopters, it must have been large.
3.) It's hard to think there was some weird weather occurrence going on. There were almost no clouds that day, little wind, just doesn't make sense. Of course, I'm no meteorologist or anything of the sort.
4.) If it was an illusion from weather, that would be an amazing illusion, as the shape was very well defined and solid.
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| flint wrote: |
|---|
| Computergeek01 if I told you that grass was green, you seem to be the type that would say "no it isn't green, you think it is but it isn't". |
Well, he would be right, science says the only reason we see green is because all the other wavelengths of light are absorbed and only green is reflected.
closed account (z0My6Up4)
BHX Specter wrote
Who said I was believing a single book? I did not say that - this is a conclusion you have jumped to. What is more, what gives you the right to label other people as "crack-pot conspiracy theorists"?
| In other words, you are believing a book written by two crack-pot conspiracy theorists who are only making books to spread their idiocy. If their books are so factual then Metal Gear Solid is real and the governments of the world have bipedal nuclear equipped battle tanks secretly waiting for the right time to start World War 3. |
Who said I was believing a single book? I did not say that - this is a conclusion you have jumped to. What is more, what gives you the right to label other people as "crack-pot conspiracy theorists"?
| flint wrote: |
|---|
| Who said I was believing a single book? I did not say that - this is a conclusion you have jumped to. |
No, but you recommended it, which means it solidifies your beliefs in the conspiracy theories it has the most or you would have recommended something else as there are tons of NASA conspiracy theories (though most of them are by Hoagland).
| flint wrote: |
|---|
| What is more, what gives you the right to label other people as "crack-pot conspiracy theorists"? |
What gives me the right? Freedom of Speech.
| So it is green because it reflects green and we see green. |
Actually BHX got this one right. It's not green. It just reflects wave with such length, that our brain interprets it as green colour.
See this as we were computer, and the wavelength was input, given by "World" through input device("Eyes"). Now this input is garbage when you don't know how it should be stored, used, etc. Moreover, it may be interpreted in many ways, just the same as computers handle language codings differently(the case I'm sometimes getting some strange letters, like óəπźŋ instead of the ones I wrote).
You may also look at it as at at some cipher - like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caesar_cipher . Ciphered text makes no sense to you - but it's the same text that you'll read when you decode it, just wrote differently. If someone has been taught reading and speaking in english ciphered by Caesar cipher, he would understand this "garbage" perfectly fine.
And that's what our brain does. You see green, because brain is hard-coded to see green. There isn't anything surprising in telling you, that you could react differently - so instead of seeing green, you would feel warmth. It would be perfectly fine, because your brain just computed an input.
This post is already getting long on some offtopic thing, but I felt like I had to cover it - I find it interesting. To finish my thought, take a look at this funny substance: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miraculin . You can extract it from funny fruit, and it will change the way your brain reads "taste" input. That's strange, isn't it? ;)
@topic (htirwin)
I don't believe UFO came to our planet. At least not in the way we could notice them.
I assume, that if some race is capable of coming to Earth undetected, and keeping away from our sight in space, they are so advanced, that there's no way we could detect - or see - them if they didn't want us to see them. And I believe they don't.
I believe seeing UFO is the same case as seeing God - brain isn't perfect. It tends to interpret things, not save them as they are. If you don't understand something, you may want to explain it somehow, hence God or aliens. I've seen some scientist claiming, that he's found "God's dimension", proofs for existence of God, and proofs of UFO existence(and used UFO's technology to create his own blueprint of spacecraft). He said that we could have been way ahead, but instead of listening to him, people are laughing at him. I don't know if he's right, but he looks a bit like a loony to me.
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| (¬_¬) "Actually BHX got this one right. It's not green." pah! |
Yeah, I can't take credit for what I learned in science in like 5th or 6th grade.
| @topic (htirwin) I don't believe UFO came to our planet. At least not in the way we could notice them. I assume, that if some race is capable of coming to Earth undetected, and keeping away from our sight in space, they are so advanced, that there's no way we could detect - or see - them if they didn't want us to see them. And I believe they don't. |
It may not be possible to go completely undetected and it is arbitrary to assume that they would be so concerned with detection. And just because they send a probe here doesn't mean they are more advanced than us. We could send probes to many other solar systems; the obstacles are financial. I assume that we will have sent many probes to other solar systems likely to harbor life before the end of man kind. I doubt all of them will be sophisticated as to be completely undetectable, and many of them will likely be quite clumsy and blatant.
And it seams more likely that a distant intelligent society would send drones/probes rather than live biological pilots. And it is likely that from such a distance, it would not have been feasible to have detected that life, or even intelligent life, had existed on Earth at the time they planned and launched their mission. Likely the probes would have been designed to explore and send back information, possible attempt to communicate if intelligent life were found. In other words, it is likely that the mission would not be some plot involving man kind specifically, or designed to evade our specific technology. And even if it were in the best interest to try and be completely undetected, doesn't mean they would do it. Like Man, they might not always do things that make sense.
After all, look at what is happening to Man kind. As we are growing in technological advancement, our average IQ is also dropping. It could be possible that by the time we have the technology to be really proficient in space exploration at feasible cost, we will have degenerated into a society that is dominated by very unintelligent people, and they will elect even more and more unintelligent leaders, and they will make unintelligent decisions.
But I think it isn't likely that a UFO is from another planet rather than just being an unconventional man made aircraft, or not understood or unknown natural phenomena, assuming it is something extraordinary.
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| After all, look at what is happening to Man kind. As we are growing in technological advancement, our average IQ is also dropping. It could be possible that by the time we have the technology to be really proficient in space exploration at feasible cost, we will have degenerated into a society that is dominated by very unintelligent people, and they will elect even more and more unintelligent leaders, and they will make unintelligent decisions. |
*fixed quote tag
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Yes, yes. Mankind's IQ is steadily dropping over each generation, genetic disorders are getting more prevalent, et cetera. The upside is that with global warming, enough of the population will be eradicated through its consequences that finding appropriate candidates for space travel will be that much easier. At least, I imagine most of the people sitting at the low-IQ range are those who refuse to accept global warming as a real thing, and thus prone to death as a result.
Nah, low-IQ will refuse and be prone to death while those with high-IQ will be stressing over how to fix it or what to do that they will die of high blood pressure, stroke, or heart attack. ;)