Adoption by Homosexual Couples
I hope my reply silences people who say "The Bible has been changed so many times it can't be reliable" or "There are so many different versions, how can you be sure you have the right one?" or similar.
Point 1:
Modern Bibles, (I use NAS, or ESV, but the NKJ is good too), are for the most part translated from the Greek. Not from the translation the year before. They are all from the original. Not a copy of a copy of a copy.
BTW, Nathan222, the old English terms - Thee, thou, ye, etc aren't what the people in the Bible literally said, it was just the way people said things in the 1600's.
Point 2:
Aliens do not exist, nor will ever exist, because life does not evolve from non-life, and God did not create them. So all religious rights discussion is pointless concerning them.
Point 3:
Arguing with secularists about the Bible and expecting them to be like "Oh I guess you are right, never thought about that before... I think I'll be baptized now." is unrealistic and pointless. Some people just don't want it.
If I you say some things, you will get yelled at. That's just the way it is.
I hope that on these forums, people will recognize the discrepancy between the acknowledged facts of the Christians and secularists, and that this will lead to the reasonable and logical recognition of the other's beliefs.
Thanks,
Superdude
Point 1:
Modern Bibles, (I use NAS, or ESV, but the NKJ is good too), are for the most part translated from the Greek. Not from the translation the year before. They are all from the original. Not a copy of a copy of a copy.
BTW, Nathan222, the old English terms - Thee, thou, ye, etc aren't what the people in the Bible literally said, it was just the way people said things in the 1600's.
Point 2:
Aliens do not exist, nor will ever exist, because life does not evolve from non-life, and God did not create them. So all religious rights discussion is pointless concerning them.
Point 3:
Arguing with secularists about the Bible and expecting them to be like "Oh I guess you are right, never thought about that before... I think I'll be baptized now." is unrealistic and pointless. Some people just don't want it.
If I you say some things, you will get yelled at. That's just the way it is.
I hope that on these forums, people will recognize the discrepancy between the acknowledged facts of the Christians and secularists, and that this will lead to the reasonable and logical recognition of the other's beliefs.
Thanks,
Superdude
| Aliens do not exist, nor will ever exist, because life does not evolve from non-life, and God did not create them. So all religious rights discussion is pointless concerning them. |
Faulty assumption
closed account (9E360pDG)
I worship Christ because He is God.
Do you really think that everybody will some day enter a dark tunnel and become an atheist?
That will never happen to me because the power of God offers to me on a daily basis what "nothing" can not.
@superdude: i know that about the bible and that KJV is the right one.
Do you really think that everybody will some day enter a dark tunnel and become an atheist?
That will never happen to me because the power of God offers to me on a daily basis what "nothing" can not.
@superdude: i know that about the bible and that KJV is the right one.
@ Cheraphy - I did say in my post that we each have our beliefs which make other things have to be true or false, you may not share my beliefs.
@ Nathan222, Just because the KJV uses old English doesn't mean it is the right Bible. Or that it is wrong. I didn't say it was wrong, I just said it isn't singularly right.
@ Nathan222, Just because the KJV uses old English doesn't mean it is the right Bible. Or that it is wrong. I didn't say it was wrong, I just said it isn't singularly right.
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| Superdude wrote: |
|---|
| life does not evolve from non-life, and God did not create them. |
This statement is incorrect. Humans have already created single-cellular life artificially.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/7745868/Scientist-Craig-Venter-creates-life-for-first-time-in-laboratory-sparking-debate-about-playing-god.html
EDIT:
This brings me back to the "God of the Gaps" vs Scientific discovery topic.
God acts as a "catch all" to explain all the things we don't understand. While science constantly questions our understanding and pushes us to explore further.
So yes... the creation of life is commonly given unto God as something only he can do...
... until science explains how to do it. Then it becomes common knowledge.
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The scientist who "created life" used a cell with the DNA removed. Then he put his own artificial DNA into the cell and it started to reproduce.
That's like giving a human a false x body part and saying you made life.
That's like giving a human a false x body part and saying you made life.
To be fair, Craig Venter did not create life from scratch chemicals. No-one has yet managed this. Last I heard was a team had formed 60% of an RNA strand (sorry can't remember the source). So, we are not quite there on making life from scratch yet, but we are coming ever closer.
In other news, does the bible actually contain a definition of life in it? At what point would a machine be considered alive? I mean, if we one day did manage to create a totally artificial silicon robot that was more intelligent than us, would we really say it wasn't alive?
In other news, does the bible actually contain a definition of life in it? At what point would a machine be considered alive? I mean, if we one day did manage to create a totally artificial silicon robot that was more intelligent than us, would we really say it wasn't alive?
closed account (9E360pDG)
What has intelligence got to do with life? Isn't a computer garbage in, garbage out? Even AI is garbage in, garbage out.
What has intelligence got to do with life?
Even if you think we made life from scratch, we would still use God given resources. We would need to create the thing that makes that life.
What has intelligence got to do with life?
Even if you think we made life from scratch, we would still use God given resources. We would need to create the thing that makes that life.
We could make a robot that goes around and scavenges for materials to make a reproduction of itself, communicates maybe, and shows all the signs of "life", would it be life? Or a machine to imitate it?
| Aliens do not exist, nor will ever exist, because life does not evolve from non-life, and God did not create them. So all religious rights discussion is pointless concerning them. |
Statistically, this is extraordinarily unlikely.
Here's what we know to be true:
- There are 8 planets in our Solar System
- There are ~100-400 billion solar systems in the Milky Way galaxy
- There are over 54 galaxies in our Local Group
- There are 10 Groups in the Virgo Supercluster
- There are millions (~10 million) superclusters in the observable universe.
(refs:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milky_Way
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_Group
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virgo_Supercluster
http://www.universetoday.com/30582/superclusters/
)
So let's be extremely conservative and say that we live in a situation where the numbers for our solar system/group/supercluster/etc are above average from what is seen in other solar systems/groups/etc. So let's cut all those numbers in half and say this is average:
- avg 4 planets per solar system
- avg 50 billion solar systems per galaxy
- avg 27 galaxies per group
- avg 5 groups per supercluster
This means we can estimate the number of planets that exist to be:
4*50 bil*27*5*5 mil = 1.35e16 planets in the observable universe.
Just to clarify how big of a number that is... it's: 13,500,000,000,000,000
And remember I'm being extremely generous and rounding down a lot. The real number is much, much higher. I'm also ignoring the possibility of other heavenly bodies like moons, asteroids, rogue planets, etc... all of which could theoretically be habitable.
This is also only in what is in the observable universe. There is no way of knowing what exists outside of that, as we cannot see it from Earth. But again, let's be extremely generous and say that the observable universe is all there is... that there's nothing outside of it.
So 13.5e16 planets. The odds of at least one of those planets (aside from Earth) being habitable is extremely high. Almost a statistical guarantee.
Let's continue with wild estimations here and say that the odds of any planet capable of supporting life as we know it is 1 in 1 trillion. Again note I said "life as we know it", since we have only been exposed to Earth-style life... we cannot say for sure whether or not it is the only form of life there is. But let's continue to be conservative and say it's the only kind of life.
1.35e16 / 1 trillion is 13,500
So guessing very conservatively, there 13,500 planets that are capable of supporting Earth-like life. And again... I cannot stress just how generous I'm being with these numbers. In reality we're probably talking 100x that or more.
To say that Earth is the only place with life... and that we are the only life in existence is quite an extraordinary claim. The numbers just don't agree.
Of course... any life that does exist is likely going to be so far away we will never come in contact with it.
EDIT:
I'm also being extremely kind and ignoring how things could have changed in the several billion years of time... or how they might change in the billions of years to come.
To say that we are the only live that ever was or ever will be is an even more extraordinary claim.
(and of course... is already known to be untrue due to the prehistoric periods where Earth was populated with other species -- and humans did not exist yet)
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closed account (9E360pDG)
Actually, all the things you listed are not necessary.
They are all 1 before God.
They are all 1 before God.
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| Actually, all the things you listed are not necessary. They are all 1 before God. |
What does that even mean?
Disch, I am suprised you have not learned, that when talking with Christians, you can't make evolutionary based arguments and expect them to be accepted! Seriously, this whole conversation has been mostly people talking past each other.
He didn't say anything about evolution. He just mentioned that we are 1 out of the <insert very large number here> planets and who is to say there isn't another habitable planet out there. The planet(s) may not be in reach for us but it is possible that it/they exists.
Haven't astronomers already found a couple planets within the Goldilock's zone?
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| Seriously, this whole conversation has been mostly people talking past each other. |
But his post was such a good read...
> So guessing very conservatively
except for one part. ``the odds of any planet capable of supporting life as we know it is 1 in 1 trillion''
¿where does that number come from? it just seem a case of think a high number.
> when talking with Christians, you can't make evolutionary based arguments and expect them to be accepted!
no evolution, no logic, no other book apart from kjv, not comparing new and old testament, not questioning yahveh's morale...
¿what are we allowed to do?
except for one part. ``the odds of any planet capable of supporting life as we know it is 1 in 1 trillion''
¿where does that number come from? it just seem a case of think a high number.
> when talking with Christians, you can't make evolutionary based arguments and expect them to be accepted!
no evolution, no logic, no other book apart from kjv, not comparing new and old testament, not questioning yahveh's morale...
¿what are we allowed to do?