Reached a really irritating impasse and just need some human advice
I probably shouldn't use you guys for therapy, but...
With regards to programming I've reached something that could either be a speed bump or a mountain, depending on what my ratio of needless hysteria to genuine frustration is.
I find myself hitting a wall in whatever direction I turn.
1. I'm twenty-one. I see fourteen-year-olds on here who can program better simply because they were raised in a supportive environment, knew that they wanted to do it from a younger age, and had parents, possibly in STEM fields, who never let them go through a period of utter existential cluelessness. Some of this is my fault, some of it is my environment. All of it is difficult to throw off my back, and makes me feel like I'm just too late to ever have a good career. It doesn't help that my dad just got a master's degree but is about to be homeless at the same time. It doesn't exactly motivate me to go back to school and ignore my job.
2. I'm not sure WHY I even want to program other than that I'm an abstract thinker, and that seems (to me) to be what programming is about, regardless of language. I've had tons of game ideas for years, but me becoming a programmer and me getting a CREATIVE role in developing a video game are two very different things, and are often mutually exclusive. The pot-smoking artists aren't gonna let a programmer come up with creative ideas. I would only exist to implement THEIR ideas.
3. I'm not sure what to do next. First I did basic c++ tutorials from this site, I did a little practice
4. I'm an impoverished caveman. I don't even have a cell phone, unlike 90% people my age, and I can barely afford groceries. I'm so technologically backwards that I wonder if I even have the necessary tools to contribute to society as anything other than a manual laborer.
5. I'm still young, but everything is passing so fast for me. It only seems like yesterday that I graduated high school, but the calendar says four years. I could've been held back at every grade in high school and be exactly where I am now. I haven't been to college except for one semester at a community college, back when I didn't know what I wanted to do, and a history professor literally advised me to drop out and do some soul searching. I'm not kidding. Now I'm worried that I'm stuck and that even if I go back to school I'll be surrounded by younger, brasher, smarter people with parents in math and science fields who, with upturned noses, treat me like a moron and try to push me to the bottom of the competitive totem pole.
6. My original rationale for leaving school was that I was unsatisfied with its inefficiency and expensiveness, and thought I was smart enough to teach myself with the Internet and too much free time. I was big on autodidacticism then. American scientific illiteracy and idiotic public school policies drove me to feel justified in abandoning my education. But I was wrong.
Now, no matter how long I stay out of school and teach myself about programming, math, and science. No matter how many audiobooks I listen through at my data entry job, my accumulated intelligence will go unrecognized, and even viewed as pretentious, and self-designated, simply because I don't have the credentials to back up all the work I've done by myself, for myself.
7. Let's not even get into the psychological and spiritual matters of being a mortal human.
8. I spend a year reading through Stroustrup's Programming Principles and Practice using C++ in my free time. I hit roadblocks but power through them. I get to chapter 12. I have such enormous difficulty getting fltk to work that I give up and try teaching myself SDL for a while. I quickly discover that I've installed an old version of SDL and have to get SDL 2 to keep up with the tiresome trend of progress. I do just that. I find that even following people's tutorials line-for-line and analyzing the ideas behind the code painstakingly for hours helps me little. I keep wondering why I'm doing this and whether I'll ever be able tot run with these people who have 3+ languages on their resumé, with these people who didn't have computer classes taught by clueless coaches, like I did. I give up SDL after a while and move back to my textbook once I finally discover what version of fltk I need to keep along with Stroustrup's code. I find that I still get compile-time errors all over the place, not just in my code, but in std c++ header files that I've never had a hand in writing, which are all full of intimidating and obscure things like typedefs, macros, templates, and template metaprogramming.
9. Everyone in my life circle keeps asking why I work so hard, and say I need to just let loose more but every time I do, I feel lazy, out-of-place, and procrastinating.
I guess my questions are as follows.
I. Do I need to go back to school to have a hope of learning this stuff? Will my younger peers just end up beating me out for jobs, as is the case with my educated-but-unemployed father?
II. If this can be self-taught, then what direction do I need to move in?
III. Is programming something poor people with other responsibilities can successfully dedicate themselves to?
Every day I look outside and see the roads. I feel overwhelming guilt because I know thousands of people will spend their whole life maintaining sidewalks, streetlights, and asphalt that I take for granted, while I try, perhaps unsuccessfully to get a cushy office job working with abstract symbols for I-know-not-why.
Sorry if this is whiny and inconsolable. It's hard to find people in real life willing to listen to a tangent like this. I thought it might be better in a form where at least people can listen to it at their own pace between tea-sips and ramen-slurps.
With regards to programming I've reached something that could either be a speed bump or a mountain, depending on what my ratio of needless hysteria to genuine frustration is.
I find myself hitting a wall in whatever direction I turn.
1. I'm twenty-one. I see fourteen-year-olds on here who can program better simply because they were raised in a supportive environment, knew that they wanted to do it from a younger age, and had parents, possibly in STEM fields, who never let them go through a period of utter existential cluelessness. Some of this is my fault, some of it is my environment. All of it is difficult to throw off my back, and makes me feel like I'm just too late to ever have a good career. It doesn't help that my dad just got a master's degree but is about to be homeless at the same time. It doesn't exactly motivate me to go back to school and ignore my job.
2. I'm not sure WHY I even want to program other than that I'm an abstract thinker, and that seems (to me) to be what programming is about, regardless of language. I've had tons of game ideas for years, but me becoming a programmer and me getting a CREATIVE role in developing a video game are two very different things, and are often mutually exclusive. The pot-smoking artists aren't gonna let a programmer come up with creative ideas. I would only exist to implement THEIR ideas.
3. I'm not sure what to do next. First I did basic c++ tutorials from this site, I did a little practice
4. I'm an impoverished caveman. I don't even have a cell phone, unlike 90% people my age, and I can barely afford groceries. I'm so technologically backwards that I wonder if I even have the necessary tools to contribute to society as anything other than a manual laborer.
5. I'm still young, but everything is passing so fast for me. It only seems like yesterday that I graduated high school, but the calendar says four years. I could've been held back at every grade in high school and be exactly where I am now. I haven't been to college except for one semester at a community college, back when I didn't know what I wanted to do, and a history professor literally advised me to drop out and do some soul searching. I'm not kidding. Now I'm worried that I'm stuck and that even if I go back to school I'll be surrounded by younger, brasher, smarter people with parents in math and science fields who, with upturned noses, treat me like a moron and try to push me to the bottom of the competitive totem pole.
6. My original rationale for leaving school was that I was unsatisfied with its inefficiency and expensiveness, and thought I was smart enough to teach myself with the Internet and too much free time. I was big on autodidacticism then. American scientific illiteracy and idiotic public school policies drove me to feel justified in abandoning my education. But I was wrong.
Now, no matter how long I stay out of school and teach myself about programming, math, and science. No matter how many audiobooks I listen through at my data entry job, my accumulated intelligence will go unrecognized, and even viewed as pretentious, and self-designated, simply because I don't have the credentials to back up all the work I've done by myself, for myself.
7. Let's not even get into the psychological and spiritual matters of being a mortal human.
8. I spend a year reading through Stroustrup's Programming Principles and Practice using C++ in my free time. I hit roadblocks but power through them. I get to chapter 12. I have such enormous difficulty getting fltk to work that I give up and try teaching myself SDL for a while. I quickly discover that I've installed an old version of SDL and have to get SDL 2 to keep up with the tiresome trend of progress. I do just that. I find that even following people's tutorials line-for-line and analyzing the ideas behind the code painstakingly for hours helps me little. I keep wondering why I'm doing this and whether I'll ever be able tot run with these people who have 3+ languages on their resumé, with these people who didn't have computer classes taught by clueless coaches, like I did. I give up SDL after a while and move back to my textbook once I finally discover what version of fltk I need to keep along with Stroustrup's code. I find that I still get compile-time errors all over the place, not just in my code, but in std c++ header files that I've never had a hand in writing, which are all full of intimidating and obscure things like typedefs, macros, templates, and template metaprogramming.
9. Everyone in my life circle keeps asking why I work so hard, and say I need to just let loose more but every time I do, I feel lazy, out-of-place, and procrastinating.
I guess my questions are as follows.
I. Do I need to go back to school to have a hope of learning this stuff? Will my younger peers just end up beating me out for jobs, as is the case with my educated-but-unemployed father?
II. If this can be self-taught, then what direction do I need to move in?
III. Is programming something poor people with other responsibilities can successfully dedicate themselves to?
Every day I look outside and see the roads. I feel overwhelming guilt because I know thousands of people will spend their whole life maintaining sidewalks, streetlights, and asphalt that I take for granted, while I try, perhaps unsuccessfully to get a cushy office job working with abstract symbols for I-know-not-why.
Sorry if this is whiny and inconsolable. It's hard to find people in real life willing to listen to a tangent like this. I thought it might be better in a form where at least people can listen to it at their own pace between tea-sips and ramen-slurps.
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As much of a joke as the American education system can be, it's become practically a necessity if you want to get a decent job.
You won't be the youngest, or the oldest. 21 years old is not old...
Programming definitely can be self taught. I recommend an easier language that can produce results faster than C++, though. At least at first. It's definitely a solid language to know and is very desirable, but employers want productivity first, and there are many other languages out there which one can be much more productive in.
Now, there are many things you learn in school which are good to have. You learn all about software engineering principles, which is not the same as programming and you likely won't learn much of it on your own unless you go out of your way to learn it. It's something that's better learned in the class room and with group projects.
You also learn communication skills, which are arguably the most important skills you can leave university with.
Time management is always a challenge in life. I don't know your situation, and don't really want to know it, but it can be done. Even just an hour a night will get you there. Put in more time on your weekends.
Basically, go back to school and stick to it. Network. Go to career fairs and show off your resume, even if it's small. Join a computer club and make friends, especially with the upperclassmen. And stop thinking your life is over. Never give up. You're stronger than that.
| Will my younger peers just end up beating me out for jobs |
You won't be the youngest, or the oldest. 21 years old is not old...
| If this can be self-taught, then what direction do I need to move in? |
Programming definitely can be self taught. I recommend an easier language that can produce results faster than C++, though. At least at first. It's definitely a solid language to know and is very desirable, but employers want productivity first, and there are many other languages out there which one can be much more productive in.
Now, there are many things you learn in school which are good to have. You learn all about software engineering principles, which is not the same as programming and you likely won't learn much of it on your own unless you go out of your way to learn it. It's something that's better learned in the class room and with group projects.
You also learn communication skills, which are arguably the most important skills you can leave university with.
| Is programming something poor people with other responsibilities can successfully dedicate themselves to? |
Time management is always a challenge in life. I don't know your situation, and don't really want to know it, but it can be done. Even just an hour a night will get you there. Put in more time on your weekends.
Basically, go back to school and stick to it. Network. Go to career fairs and show off your resume, even if it's small. Join a computer club and make friends, especially with the upperclassmen. And stop thinking your life is over. Never give up. You're stronger than that.
| As much of a joke as the American education system can be, it's become practically a necessity if you want to get a decent job. |
I'm trying really hard to bite my tongue on this.
The reality (from my experience) is that while education definitely greatly improves your chances of getting a good job, it does not necessarily guarantee one.
Likewise, not having an education definitely reduces your chances of getting a good job, but it does not necessarily make it impossible.
My older sister barely graduated HS and is now in management and makes enough to support a household of 4 in Southern California (where it's particularly expensive to live).
My younger sister graduated with honors from Berkeley and couldn't get a job that paid enough to cover her education costs in the States -- she had to move out of the country to find work. She's currently working as an English teacher in Saudi Arabia.
I wasn't what you'd consider "stellar" in academia, but I'm doing quite well for myself these day (I make ~3x what I need to support myself and have 0 debt). Though I owe a lot of my current circumstances to a combination of luck, friends, independent study, luck, personality, and more luck.
My point is there are a lot of factors which determine your success. Education is definitely one of them... and is an important one... but it's not the only one. And I would even go so far as to say it's frequently overvalued.
I'm not trying to discourage you from getting a degree or anything. Quite the contrary. If I could go back in time I would do a lot of things differently -- my approach to school would definitely be one of them. All I'm saying is that if you find yourself unable to get a degree for whatever reason, you shouldn't give up hope.
| ResidentBiscuit wrote: |
|---|
| Network. |
This. This this this.
The single greatest, most important contributing factor to your ability to get hired at a job you want is not education. It's networking. Who you know means so, so much. I can't overstate how important it is.
Most of the jobs I've had I've gotten through referrals. People that know me and know I'm good at what I do put in a good word for me. It helps overcome the shortcomings of my less-than-stellar academic achievements.
So yeah... it really is all about who you know. Single most important thing. Maybe it isn't right or fair that it works that way... but in my experience that really is the way it works.
And 21 certainly isn't too old... are you kidding me? =P You're practically still a kid! haha
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1) Never worry about what 14 year olds are doing. They normally aren't up to tasks practically, even if they sound like they know what they are on about.
2) Have you considered freelance programming?
3) Learning more is never bad. How are you with boost?
4) People that can't program are technologically backwards.
5) I know only two people who have gone and studied as mature students. Both of them very much enjoyed it...
6) Can't comment as I'm not from the USA.
7) Agreed.
8) Sounds like good problems to ask about on this forum
9) Don't listen too much to what everyone else thinks. ;)
I: Need to? No. Good idea? Possibly.
II: See Disch's post.
III: Yes.
2) Have you considered freelance programming?
3) Learning more is never bad. How are you with boost?
4) People that can't program are technologically backwards.
5) I know only two people who have gone and studied as mature students. Both of them very much enjoyed it...
6) Can't comment as I'm not from the USA.
7) Agreed.
8) Sounds like good problems to ask about on this forum
9) Don't listen too much to what everyone else thinks. ;)
I: Need to? No. Good idea? Possibly.
II: See Disch's post.
III: Yes.
| 4) People that can't program are technologically backwards. |
Thanks everyone who posted. I just need some encouragement sometimes. Whatever bad mood possessed me to post that has left now.
Regarding everyone who mentioned networking, and the classic who-you-know-VS-what-you-know dichotomy:
I find it difficult to network at my age. All attempts I've made at networking seem to result in me colliding with people who party harder than me and seem to have little to offer in the way of productivity. I don't know whether if it's because I'm trying to meet professional contacts too early in life, or if it's because I'm doing it in the wrong place (work instead of school) or if it's simply because I'm a bit stuck up and need to trudge through casual formalities before I expect people to start sharing their creative and productive idea with me, and vice-versa. I do feel like I approach the people with a pretense of business partnership before friendship, but it's only because I know I could get hit by a bus tomorrow and I wanna hurry the hell up and start giving back to the world all I've taken from it, for free. I'm not rich, but I'm definitely luckier than some.
Sometimes I feel like it's where I live. I don't exactly live in a third world country, but Brandon, Florida isn't exactly a hotbed of computer culture, either.
Thanks for the varied, poignant advice, everybody. Quite a bit of it is stuff I already tell myself, but sometimes hearing it from others helps clear up your head and prioritize, y'know?
Regarding Mats asking what I know about boost:
That's embarrassing. Nothing outside of the fact that it's a standard c++ library since I think c++11. It provides facilities for a few things that other standard libraries don't support, like multithreading and image processing. My knowledge here is superficial.
Regarding everyone who mentioned networking, and the classic who-you-know-VS-what-you-know dichotomy:
I find it difficult to network at my age. All attempts I've made at networking seem to result in me colliding with people who party harder than me and seem to have little to offer in the way of productivity. I don't know whether if it's because I'm trying to meet professional contacts too early in life, or if it's because I'm doing it in the wrong place (work instead of school) or if it's simply because I'm a bit stuck up and need to trudge through casual formalities before I expect people to start sharing their creative and productive idea with me, and vice-versa. I do feel like I approach the people with a pretense of business partnership before friendship, but it's only because I know I could get hit by a bus tomorrow and I wanna hurry the hell up and start giving back to the world all I've taken from it, for free. I'm not rich, but I'm definitely luckier than some.
Sometimes I feel like it's where I live. I don't exactly live in a third world country, but Brandon, Florida isn't exactly a hotbed of computer culture, either.
Thanks for the varied, poignant advice, everybody. Quite a bit of it is stuff I already tell myself, but sometimes hearing it from others helps clear up your head and prioritize, y'know?
Regarding Mats asking what I know about boost:
That's embarrassing. Nothing outside of the fact that it's a standard c++ library since I think c++11. It provides facilities for a few things that other standard libraries don't support, like multithreading and image processing. My knowledge here is superficial.
closed account (3hM2Nwbp)
@NullInfinity - I know what you mean about networking difficulties.
I'm 25 and have found that nearly all of my old close friends are either:
1) Dead from drug overdose (3)
2) Moved far away and dropped out of contact (2)
3) In jail (1)
4) Dead from other health problems (quite a few).
I literally have 1 close friend that I still talk to.
Professional networking? I'm a mechanic. I went to college for mechanics. That was the biggest mistake of my life - because "higher education" means absolutely nothing in this field. The only response that I get when people find out I went to school for my field is a muffled chuckle.
Regarding finances - I feel you there too. I'm working 2 jobs right now, 6 days per week - both nearly double minimum wage - and still wouldn't consider things to be "stable" (with over $8,000 in student loans looming overhead). How is one to 'network' when the only time spent away from work is to wind down and sleep for a few hours before heading right back to the grind?
---
Just a stab in the dark here...but since it seems you're much like myself:
When there's trouble, you're the one that people depend on...and then you dig them out of whatever trouble that they're in, regardless of what it costs you, wearing a smile the whole time. In the end when they're done using you for your talents, you're alone again.
---
Case in point: You're not alone - there's at least one other person out there in a similar situation.
*
From what I've found, getting a job will only happen in one of four ways:
1) Know someone on the inside
2) Have the required education and past experience
3) Have the required education and a moderate amount of luck
4) Have more luck than you can shake a stick at.
It can definitely be self taught! Your only problem will be convincing potential employers that you are the best candidate without that expensive little piece of paper issued by higher education saying that you are. If you find the right direction before I do, let me know. I'll do the same to you.
Definitely! I speak from experience on this one. Trust me, it can be done.
I'm 25 and have found that nearly all of my old close friends are either:
1) Dead from drug overdose (3)
2) Moved far away and dropped out of contact (2)
3) In jail (1)
4) Dead from other health problems (quite a few).
I literally have 1 close friend that I still talk to.
Professional networking? I'm a mechanic. I went to college for mechanics. That was the biggest mistake of my life - because "higher education" means absolutely nothing in this field. The only response that I get when people find out I went to school for my field is a muffled chuckle.
Regarding finances - I feel you there too. I'm working 2 jobs right now, 6 days per week - both nearly double minimum wage - and still wouldn't consider things to be "stable" (with over $8,000 in student loans looming overhead). How is one to 'network' when the only time spent away from work is to wind down and sleep for a few hours before heading right back to the grind?
---
Just a stab in the dark here...but since it seems you're much like myself:
When there's trouble, you're the one that people depend on...and then you dig them out of whatever trouble that they're in, regardless of what it costs you, wearing a smile the whole time. In the end when they're done using you for your talents, you're alone again.
---
Case in point: You're not alone - there's at least one other person out there in a similar situation.
*
| I. Do I need to go back to school to have a hope of learning this stuff? Will my younger peers just end up beating me out for jobs, as is the case with my educated-but-unemployed father? |
From what I've found, getting a job will only happen in one of four ways:
1) Know someone on the inside
2) Have the required education and past experience
3) Have the required education and a moderate amount of luck
4) Have more luck than you can shake a stick at.
| II. If this can be self-taught, then what direction do I need to move in? |
| III. Is programming something poor people with other responsibilities can successfully dedicate themselves to? |
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I'll follow the others and give one comment for each point.
1. Follow what Mats said. When I was 14-15 I felt like I knew all of it.
Now that I'm 18, I have knowledge I was wrong.
2. You becoming a programmer and getting a creative role aren't so much mutually exclusive.
I've seen games where the developer also had the idea of the game itself, and didn't just limit themselves to making the engine.
As an (very early) Indie developer, my actual team is composed from two people:
Developer and Modeler.
I develop and get the idea, asking my modeler to make the models I need.
We have no clue for textures atm, but that goes certainly after the models.
Sounds bad and selfish, but he likes my idea.
3. I personally didn't learn boost because I never felt the need yet.
But you should begin with an idea, and build it up from scratch, eventually using some libraries to get you helped.
Don't expect your very first project to be that flawless, or to ever finish in the first place.
Every time you'll create a new project, try to cover those flaws, and go as far as possible.
When you have troubles, ask. Here, on stackoverflow, or wherever you want to.
In the early projects I was also alone.
4. All you really need is just a PC and an Internet connection. This is certainly not an issue and you don't have to worry about this.
5. You shouldn't go back into school. If you really want to, make sure you go with serious students (AND teachers!).
6. The same happened over here. Our current education is no good (Teachers being literally clueless about their own subject) and I thought I wasn't going to learn anything from school.
Guess what? I was right. I never learnt anything new in high schools, except for science, and I'd like to meet my science teacher back.
She gave me very good life lessons.
7. I've got the same issue here. Anybody can help us?
8. Sometimes error in your code show up as errors from C++ header files, because of how templates work. SDL at the moment is unusable for me, there's not much documentation for my liking.
Stick with something else like SFML.
9. I feel this thing too. Probably because I don't have a job yet.
I. No. I never learnt this at any school.
II. See pt. 3.
III. Depends on the kind of responsibilities. But as long as you have some free time, you should be able to do it.
If you feel like this was too biased against decently-sized networks, I've been "kicked" (self-kicked?) out from my old friends group since they began doing drugs and some more awesome adventures I had with them (which means very bad issues involving calling the police a decent number of times).
Add "moved away" three times (soon will be four).
All I know about "Network" is what's online.
I only know and regularly speak/read to people on:
1/A. Steam/Steam Community
1/B. TeamSpeak
2. CPlusPlus.com
3. Youtube
Minimal checking on my alt account on FB/Twitter.
Some interactions on Twitch.
Certainly the only C++-related interactions I have, is only over here, or on some Youtube videos involving maths (and they're particularly good, too. I really suggest them to learn stuff. Just make sure to have experienced people talking, you don't want 14 year old kids speaking C++ into your ears right now I bet :> ).
EDIT: And listen to some good music. It'll keep you in a decent mood.
1. Follow what Mats said. When I was 14-15 I felt like I knew all of it.
Now that I'm 18, I have knowledge I was wrong.
2. You becoming a programmer and getting a creative role aren't so much mutually exclusive.
I've seen games where the developer also had the idea of the game itself, and didn't just limit themselves to making the engine.
As an (very early) Indie developer, my actual team is composed from two people:
Developer and Modeler.
I develop and get the idea, asking my modeler to make the models I need.
We have no clue for textures atm, but that goes certainly after the models.
Sounds bad and selfish, but he likes my idea.
3. I personally didn't learn boost because I never felt the need yet.
But you should begin with an idea, and build it up from scratch, eventually using some libraries to get you helped.
Don't expect your very first project to be that flawless, or to ever finish in the first place.
Every time you'll create a new project, try to cover those flaws, and go as far as possible.
When you have troubles, ask. Here, on stackoverflow, or wherever you want to.
In the early projects I was also alone.
4. All you really need is just a PC and an Internet connection. This is certainly not an issue and you don't have to worry about this.
5. You shouldn't go back into school. If you really want to, make sure you go with serious students (AND teachers!).
6. The same happened over here. Our current education is no good (Teachers being literally clueless about their own subject) and I thought I wasn't going to learn anything from school.
Guess what? I was right. I never learnt anything new in high schools, except for science, and I'd like to meet my science teacher back.
She gave me very good life lessons.
7. I've got the same issue here. Anybody can help us?
8. Sometimes error in your code show up as errors from C++ header files, because of how templates work. SDL at the moment is unusable for me, there's not much documentation for my liking.
Stick with something else like SFML.
9. I feel this thing too. Probably because I don't have a job yet.
I. No. I never learnt this at any school.
II. See pt. 3.
III. Depends on the kind of responsibilities. But as long as you have some free time, you should be able to do it.
If you feel like this was too biased against decently-sized networks, I've been "kicked" (self-kicked?) out from my old friends group since they began doing drugs and some more awesome adventures I had with them (which means very bad issues involving calling the police a decent number of times).
Add "moved away" three times (soon will be four).
All I know about "Network" is what's online.
I only know and regularly speak/read to people on:
1/A. Steam/Steam Community
1/B. TeamSpeak
2. CPlusPlus.com
3. Youtube
Minimal checking on my alt account on FB/Twitter.
Some interactions on Twitch.
Certainly the only C++-related interactions I have, is only over here, or on some Youtube videos involving maths (and they're particularly good, too. I really suggest them to learn stuff. Just make sure to have experienced people talking, you don't want 14 year old kids speaking C++ into your ears right now I bet :> ).
EDIT: And listen to some good music. It'll keep you in a decent mood.
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| 7. Let's not even get into the psychological and spiritual matters of being a mortal human. |
| 7. I've got the same issue here. Anybody can help us? |
I skipped over that because I figured it was existential nonsense. I'm still not convinced I was wrong... but since EssGeEich chimed in with a "me too" I guess I'll direct it.
My answer? "Get your head out of your ass". Crudeness and rudeness aside.. it sums up my position. If you are focusing on your mortality when you're 21, that's absurd. Maybe... maybe when you get in your 50s you should start to think about it. But you're not even halfway to the halfway point. Get a grip.
If you spend your time thinking/worrying about death, then you're not living.
I have to agree with Disch on that one. I'm 32 and the only time I think about death is about the time someone I know dies. Then I get over it and go back to programming and taking care of my wife while learning new things where I can. Worrying about death is a waste of time because you could could die 5 seconds from now, 5 years from now, when you are 30, or live to be over 100. No one knows. You are more likely to kill yourself faster stressing over it.
Number 7 was less about dying and more about the time constraints it imposes.
It literally affects everything, and acknowledging that is not having your head up your ass. I more included it as a "lol, we all have to deal with that." but perhaps I should've clarified.
It's something I actually point out because I think people get insensitive when they forget it. Like, I frequently wonder in every day life how people can stab each other in the back and throw each other under the bus, to use idioms, and I think forgetting how fragile we all are is a big part of that. It's not stressing over mortality so much as understanding it and building your decisions around it.
And it is relevant when you're 21. I worked at grocery store a couple years ago and I had two people who were my age die on me. One from a heart attack, one from getting shot.
No it's not likely, yes it is a possible contingency. I've always been told taking contingencies into account is important, even if they're unlikely.
Also, I'm not trying to invalidate what Disch and BHX just said so much as I'm elaborating and responding. Just saying that before it becomes a flamewar.
It literally affects everything, and acknowledging that is not having your head up your ass. I more included it as a "lol, we all have to deal with that." but perhaps I should've clarified.
It's something I actually point out because I think people get insensitive when they forget it. Like, I frequently wonder in every day life how people can stab each other in the back and throw each other under the bus, to use idioms, and I think forgetting how fragile we all are is a big part of that. It's not stressing over mortality so much as understanding it and building your decisions around it.
And it is relevant when you're 21. I worked at grocery store a couple years ago and I had two people who were my age die on me. One from a heart attack, one from getting shot.
No it's not likely, yes it is a possible contingency. I've always been told taking contingencies into account is important, even if they're unlikely.
Also, I'm not trying to invalidate what Disch and BHX just said so much as I'm elaborating and responding. Just saying that before it becomes a flamewar.
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