these are dark times for torrenters...

[Disch]

put it back up with a proxy, and you will never be able to track them.

I think you underestimate computer guys.

If you're connected to the internet, you can be tracked. It's that simple. The machine has to know the path the data travels through in order to get it from the server to your machine. There's a definitive path -- so tracing that path is always a possibility.

[Superdude]

Then...
1) All Proxy/secure surf people are liars
2) Google/Microsoft could take over the internet
3) If you download illegal content, you could be tracked down and prosecuted

[giblit]

How do you think the FBI have prosecuted people.. You think everyone gets away with pirating? superdude you are mislead.

[Superdude]

@giblit: Why would the FBI care about that? They have more important things to do.

[Disch]

1) All Proxy/secure surf people are liars

This should not surprise you.

2) Google/Microsoft could take over the internet

What? What does that have to do with anything? And how do you figure that?

3) If you download illegal content, you could be tracked down and prosecuted

You could, and people have been.

The reason most people aren't is because it's not financially feasible to go after every single person who pirates.

Online piracy is not a criminal matter, so law enforcement doesn't do it. It's a civil matter... which means the copyright holder has to actually pursue it.



EDIT:
My point was, Superdude... it's a relatively simple concept, and can be summed up with a simple question:

If your computer can't be found through an internet connection... then how do all these websites find their way to your computer when you visit them over the internet? There has to be a path or else you wouldn't be able to access anything.

[o1vk4iN6]

BHXSpecter wrote:

Which has more legal grounds for Blizzard to go after them. Plus I don't recall you being able to unlock the special purchases they sell on a private server.

http://wow.joystiq.com/2008/12/05/blizzard-legal-targets-private-servers/

Blizzard has been fighting private servers since 2008.

Running the private servers though would bar you from buying the in game special items like special weapons or armor so you may not have to pay, but you can't get more than the default game items.

Crowd funding is usually used by indie developers who have to listen to their backers or by guys who used to work at a big name company and don't have the funds to make it.

Dota 2 doesn't have in-game purchases? Then what is this: http://www.dota2.com/store/

A quick google search shows that LoL does have an in-game store where you can buy things with your money.

Since 2008 and yet you can still find them :P.

Lol crowd funding isn't "usually" used by indie devs. Most of the successfully funded projects I see are usually from established developers. If I recall correctly the studio working on Start Citizen even made mention of porting CryEngine to linux/mac. They don't need to do anything the backers say... Have you even been on a crowd funding website ?

All those in-game purchases in Dota or League are purely cosmetic, they can be completely ignored without changing gameplay or limiting it (like ignoring DLC would). It's not the same as DLC or pay to play as the mobile model you mentioned.

If you're connected to the internet, you can be tracked. It's that simple. The machine has to know the path the data travels through in order to get it from the server to your machine. There's a definitive path -- so tracing that path is always a possibility.

That's the point of having another computer receive the data and send it to you ? They would need physical access to that computer to find who it's actually sending it to. If that computer is located in another country where they can't get physical access to well...

[BHX]

Superdude wrote:

@giblit: Why would the FBI care about that? They have more important things to do.

Since you weren't born during the 90s you don't know about the huge Sony/FBI campaign that was going during the days of Playstation One (PSX at that time) to stop piracy of PSX games.

I've been around for a long time now and when I was a teenager I thought as chrisname did and admit I pirated everything I could get my hands on. As I got older I came to realize pirating made no difference except for making you look over your shoulder wondering if you will end up getting in trouble especially when the FBI/Sony Campaign shut down sites and forced them to give up their user lists.

Now that I'm 32 I understand even more, as Disch pointed out, they won't usually go after a single person as it is normally enough to go after a site or group as it will instill fear into the users. Though, legally, if you are court ordered to stop doing piracy or running an illegal server for a game (like WoW) and you comply, but then a few weeks later set it up under proxy and they find out they can give you a prison sentence for breaking court order and being a repeat offender.

Also, like Disch said, you are underestimating computer guys. What he didn't mention is that they aren't guys like us who pick up what we like to make games, apps, web dev, etc. It will be extremely intelligent government paid computer guys who would likely make everyone on this site look like a noob.

Though, we see what happens when they outsource to a web dev for the obama care site. What a fiasco.

[giblit]

Also last year after the government passed more piracy laws they did a pretty large raid on megaupload. The owner of the site went to jail cant remember exactly how long. Couldn't have been too long since he was super rich and some how managed to stay #1 in call of duty for a long time.

*link to kim
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Dotcom

[chrisname]

@BHXSpecter
Maybe you're right, and it won't have any effect. It doesn't really matter that much. It was just my, perhaps naive, hope that, if everyone got into the habit of pirating things that aren't worth the money, then it would encourage the industry to make games that are. I'm still going to pirate things that I don't feel deserve my money, and buy things that do (my rule for games is that I only pirate things if the developer wouldn't get my money anyway, e.g. if the developer doesn't exist or the game can't be found for legal purchase any more, or e.g. if I already bought the game and lost it).

[BHX]

xerzi wrote:

Since 2008 and yet you can still find them :P.

Yes, and this thread shows they have been fighting piracy since the 90s and while you can still find pirating sites, they are still going after them. Just because something can be found doesn't mean they aren't still going after them.

xerzi wrote:

All those in-game purchases in Dota or League are purely cosmetic, they can be completely ignored without changing gameplay or limiting it (like ignoring DLC would). It's not the same as DLC or pay to play as the mobile model you mentioned.

Pay to play? You need to re-read it. I said "free to play" that have you buy "in-game" things (weapons, armor, skins, keys, items, etc.) which was the whole point of the article I posted.

xerzi wrote:

Lol crowd funding isn't "usually" used by indie devs. Most of the successfully funded projects I see are usually from established developers. If I recall correctly the studio working on Start Citizen even made mention of porting CryEngine to linux/mac. They don't need to do anything the backers say... Have you even been on a crowd funding website ?

Yes I've used them, regularly on Kickstarter. I've backed Ouya, STEM System, Worlds Quest, and Neo-Victorian Skirmish Squad. Being an established developer doesn't mean you aren't indie. The Wasteland 2 creator is an established developer, but went indie so he had more control over his creations.

Independent video games (commonly referred to as indie games) are video games created by individuals or small teams generally without video game publisher financial support.

In order to fund the game, developers can rely on starting a crowd-funding campaign, finding a publisher, or building community support while in development.

That is why established developers take the indie route. As you pointed out, they don't 'have' to listen to the backers, but most do. If you are being funded by a publisher you do 'have' to listen to what they want and they can tell you "this may be taken the wrong way, remove all references to it in the game". For example, in EA's The Saboteur game, if they didn't want the club you start in to be a spot with nudity, they could have said the women have to be clothed and the Pandemic would have had to comply or risk losing their funding.

[o1vk4iN6]

Pay to play? You need to re-read it. I said "free to play" that have you buy "in-game" things (weapons, armor, skins, keys, items, etc.) which was the whole point of the article I posted.

That's just the illusion of being free to play. If you can't play fairly without buying in-game items it's not truly free to play is it :).

but went indie so he had more control over his creations.

But he really doesn't have control over his creations cause he has to do what his backers say right :). So your two definitions contradict, if they get crowd funded you can say their publishers are the backers.

[S G H]

@Xerzi: Dota 2 is from VALVe.
Team Fortress 2 and CS:GO are from VALVe too.
But, if you knew what the f2p + in-game shop things are about, you would not say that.

Every time you play, every some hours (with a weekly cap) you receive a free item.

It can be any kind of item, be it a hat, a shirt, a weapon skin...
It usually don't do much more than the stock item, mostly just a different texture or model.

Dota 2 is no exception.

The shop lets you buy items you could get by playing for a week or two.

Also, from ingame drops you can receive containers like Crates, Weapon Cases...
In this case you MUST go for the in-game shop (Or the Steam Community Market, usually cheaper than the official shop) to buy a key compatible with the crate/case you want to open.
Opening such crate/case will give you a luck test.
If you're lucky, you could get rare items, even like 7000$ (Actually happened!).
Otherwise (what mostly happens) you get a shyttier item, whose price is usually lower than the key's price.

Also, the weapons dropped (talking about TF2) aren't "overpowered".
They have plus, and minus. They try to keep the game balanced between f2p and p2p.

Also, competitive tournaments many times only allow stock loadouts.

[BHX]

xerzi wrote:

But he really doesn't have control over his creations cause he has to do what his backers say right :). So your two definitions contradict, if they get crowd funded you can say their publishers are the backers.

Not at all, the backers are normally gamers who are interested in the game so they will normally request things that fit in the game perfectly. Publishers only care about the bottom line so they can make him do things that don't even fit in the game.

I've also always seen the saying "Gamers don't know what they want.", but if that were true then games would never get made because the guys making the games are gamers. So if gamers don't know what they want in games, then how do the game programmers here make games?

[S6k9GNh0]

EssGeEich, actually, DotA 2 (or rather, Steam in general) does have extensive capabilities. e.g. Whenever I first started DotA 2, I wouldn't open chests at all. I would get immortal and arcana items through nothing but trading the items I got in game. Although, some of the items are so rare that the only way to get them is through the chest because no one else has them. There are couriers that nobody has.

[o1vk4iN6]

@Xerzi: Dota 2 is from VALVe.
Team Fortress 2 and CS:GO are from VALVe too.
But, if you knew what the f2p + in-game shop things are about, you would not say that.

I've played over 3000 hours of Dota 2, I have about 10 items as I delete all the ones I get for free playing. I've spent a total of $0 on Dota 2 and i have not once been limited because of it. If you can't stop yourself from purchasing purely cosmetic items, that's not the games fault. I did not mention TF2 because it's items are not cosmetic, certain items change behavior and can radically change gameplay. For example the sniper shield can save you from being back stabbed by a spy. If you do not have this item that greatly limits how you play.

This isn't a trading item game... if you play Dota 2 just for the items i think you are playing it completely for the wrong reasons.

They have plus, and minus. They try to keep the game balanced between f2p and p2p.

With the number of items they were adding it wasn't even a matter of f2p vs p2p, the game itself became unbalanced in terms of class vs class.

[3qX21hU5]

You need to get out more if you have played 3000 hours of Dota 2 ;p. That is almost half a year of straight 24/7 game play... I used to be a hardcore MMORPG gamer (Everquest 2, Rift, Aion, WoW back in Vanilla days, SWG and SWTOR, ect) and I never even got close to half that amount of play time.

Ohh how I wish they would come out with a new MMORPG that was actually decent :( SWTOR was a bust and so was Tera and GW2.

[giblit]

Maybe he only plays dota where as you play several games. Anyways the game came out the end of august in 2011 ( on beta ) so lets say September. This means From date to date that is about 784 days. So that would mean he plays an average of 3.8 hours a day.

[S G H]

@xerzi I was referring to TF2, where weapons have different stats.

But wait, as I am a stupid guy I jumped into the discussion without reading, and I'm on your side.

About tracking, no matter the country, you still have a physical wire connecting two (or more) people.

Remember that PEOPLE makes internet, just like us, and they may be connected just like us, too.
About GPRS/HSPDA, they have an associated phone number.

No matter what, you'll never be anonymous.
Your ISP knows your address (to send you the bills).

@computerquip But I believe they don't have gameplay impacts? Are they like Unusuals on TF2? (I don't play Dota2 much, my team mates do tho)