Is Communism Really A Bad Thing?
closed account (N36fSL3A)
I've been reading about a lot of Communist countries in school lately (Vietnam, Russia, N. Korea, China), and I've been wondering if it's really that bad?
I mean if everything is distributed equally, there should be no hunger issues.
Americans are usually scared by the thought of Communism, I honestly am wondering if it's such a bad thing as they say.
I mean if everything is distributed equally, there should be no hunger issues.
Americans are usually scared by the thought of Communism, I honestly am wondering if it's such a bad thing as they say.
Communism itself isn't bad. I personally don't agree with everything about Communism about the idea itself isn't as nearly as bad as many Americans believe. It does actually have good intentions and is better than a pure capitalist nation in my opinion (The US isn't pure capitalism, we're a mixed market). However the vast majority of governments that have tried to employ Communism I believe have been bad.
closed account (N36fSL3A)
That's what I've been thinking. People think it's like the end of the world.
The thing people don't like about communism is the "everyone is paid equally" part - this effectively means you have no incentive to take a harder job if you get paid the same for an easier job.
To give some context on what L B said; why would someone spend 10+ years in medical school to become a surgeon when they could just become a janitor and get the same pay and benefits? There is no incentive for people to do more, so naturally they don't. Communism is one of those things that looks alright, or even good, on paper, but fails in implementation.
| Lumpkin wrote: |
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| I mean if everything is distributed equally, there should be no hunger issues. |
| LB wrote: |
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| The thing people don't like about communism is the "everyone is paid equally" part |
In practice everything is not distributed equally, nor is there "equal pay."
Communism trends towards totalitarianism which makes it dystopian in my book.
closed account (Dy7SLyTq)
imo, communism is a great idea, with idea being the operative keyword. it depends on the ability for humans to work together with no issues or hesitations, no lying, cheating, stealing, gambling, monopolies. so it probably will never really work out
There is a difference between a "great idea" in an ideal scenario and a "great idea" in a realistic scenario. When people say "great idea" the context is generally implicitly reality.
closed account (Dy7SLyTq)
oh no this is definitly theoretical. i think its impossible for a purely human communistic government to work outside of a virtual simulation
@LB: No, equal pay doesn't mean all people are paid the same amount. Equal pay means person A is paid equally to A's effort, person B is paid equally to B's effort, ... more like pay by merit. It should be "people are paid equally to their efforts", not "everyone is paid equally".
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Do you have proof? Because I can cite hundreds of sources that think equal pay means everyone in every profession gets pai the same.
Non-communism is what you're thinking of.
Non-communism is what you're thinking of.
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You all need to read up better on Communism. It is a failed system, based upon a twisted idea. Communistic countries don't have wealth. Ask any Russian how well communism has worked for him. He'll tell you that it doesn't work. The government is full of rich, corrupt people, who let the mafia capitalists run rampant all over them.
Normal people live no where near the standard of living we do, and no where near as long. Their political structures are brittle and broken, and their society is stratified into classes far more than any western society. Those who are on the wealthier side still have fewer opportunities and benefits than even lower-class Americans.
How about China? Remember how Hong Kong reverted to Chinese control some years ago? Also remember how absolutely terrified all the people in Hong Kong were about it? Hong Kong actually has specific protections guaranteed it by law (cough) to protect it against "communism".
But wait -- the fact is that what they all call "communism" is really not. It's just an oligarchy of wealth and power. You may claim the same is true of Western (or US) goverments, but that is a red herring for our argument against communism. So called "communism" isn't what it claims to be.
And a simple analysis proves it out: No system that seeks to control you has your best interests in mind. A truly good government seeks the education and empowerment of its populace, so that the government itself can draw from the best and brightest of them. (Hey! That's what the US Constitution is supposed to do! Too bad we don't believe it any more.)
If you really want to know what communism wants to do with you, read The Naked Communist. The book has proven itself many times over. And you can safely ignore the shrills that give nonsense arguments against it because of stuff you haven't learned yet. They're lying to you. (And probably to themselves.)
Everyone wants a better government. Don't like yours? Or mine? Wonder what our problem is?
Gee. Perhaps you ought to just read the book.
Communists don't have your best interests at heart. They seek to subjugate and destroy you. And they'll do it by telling you that you'll be better off, then demoralizing you into depravity. Oh, wait, that's one of the stated goals of communism.
Normal people live no where near the standard of living we do, and no where near as long. Their political structures are brittle and broken, and their society is stratified into classes far more than any western society. Those who are on the wealthier side still have fewer opportunities and benefits than even lower-class Americans.
How about China? Remember how Hong Kong reverted to Chinese control some years ago? Also remember how absolutely terrified all the people in Hong Kong were about it? Hong Kong actually has specific protections guaranteed it by law (cough) to protect it against "communism".
But wait -- the fact is that what they all call "communism" is really not. It's just an oligarchy of wealth and power. You may claim the same is true of Western (or US) goverments, but that is a red herring for our argument against communism. So called "communism" isn't what it claims to be.
And a simple analysis proves it out: No system that seeks to control you has your best interests in mind. A truly good government seeks the education and empowerment of its populace, so that the government itself can draw from the best and brightest of them. (Hey! That's what the US Constitution is supposed to do! Too bad we don't believe it any more.)
If you really want to know what communism wants to do with you, read The Naked Communist. The book has proven itself many times over. And you can safely ignore the shrills that give nonsense arguments against it because of stuff you haven't learned yet. They're lying to you. (And probably to themselves.)
Everyone wants a better government. Don't like yours? Or mine? Wonder what our problem is?
Gee. Perhaps you ought to just read the book.
Communists don't have your best interests at heart. They seek to subjugate and destroy you. And they'll do it by telling you that you'll be better off, then demoralizing you into depravity. Oh, wait, that's one of the stated goals of communism.
Often, someone has a great idea that will solve a problem and everyone thinks that it sounds smart. Someone else will see an "opportunity" to hijack the "cause" to promote an agenda that would not be so popular on it's own.
A bunch of people believe they have created a system that will improve lives and others are hanging around pretending they want the same thing but hope to remove "class enemies" so they can do better.
A bunch of people believe they have created a system that will improve lives and others are hanging around pretending they want the same thing but hope to remove "class enemies" so they can do better.
closed account (N36fSL3A)
Hm, I see now that you put it that way.
Douas, although you gave good reason, Communism how many Americans explained to me compared to you is not as bad.
(Still bad though)
Douas, although you gave good reason, Communism how many Americans explained to me compared to you is not as bad.
(Still bad though)
It was about people power in a time of authorities exploiting the poor to death or worse to make a quick buck, so you can respect the people thinking that if they shared their wealth that they dug out the ground, planted fished then they would be free from the exploitation of the powerful greedy leaders.
Not only did this go wrong, but worse for the rich and powerful else where this would be the end of exploiting the poor for a quick buck, thank god for these rich and powerful people that the idea of sharing was twisted right back in to exploiting the poor to make easy money all over again.
And to anyone who thinks capitalism is without its losers then think again, the rare earth elements in your Iphone or tablet come from the congo, In fact if you look at any part of the world that is considered "developing" then it has some resources that someone wants and that country is then exploited irresponsibly for maximum gain, in fact capitalism needs losers at home too, if everyone had a job then there would be more competition for labor and then the gap between the rich and poor would begin to close up...COMMUNISM OMG.
EDIT: its crazy to think that the people who do all the work so the company can exist sometimes get paid so badly that they cant even look after their health, its brutally medieval, people on minimum wage are no more or less than peasants from feudal times
EDIT II:
carl marx covers this quite well in his book, this is a bad argument my sister explained to me why, watch this space I will get back to you.
EDITIII:
it doesn't trend toward totalitarianism its just that so far the state rather than being a simple exchange has always hijacked the power, once this has happened it no longer is communism.
Its my belief that humans cannot escape their system just like the bees could not get a democracy to work, we will always have one system; the protection racket system.
It comes down to one thing, pay your taxes and dont interfere with growth or our organisation and muscle will throw you in a cell
Not only did this go wrong, but worse for the rich and powerful else where this would be the end of exploiting the poor for a quick buck, thank god for these rich and powerful people that the idea of sharing was twisted right back in to exploiting the poor to make easy money all over again.
And to anyone who thinks capitalism is without its losers then think again, the rare earth elements in your Iphone or tablet come from the congo, In fact if you look at any part of the world that is considered "developing" then it has some resources that someone wants and that country is then exploited irresponsibly for maximum gain, in fact capitalism needs losers at home too, if everyone had a job then there would be more competition for labor and then the gap between the rich and poor would begin to close up...COMMUNISM OMG.
EDIT: its crazy to think that the people who do all the work so the company can exist sometimes get paid so badly that they cant even look after their health, its brutally medieval, people on minimum wage are no more or less than peasants from feudal times
EDIT II:
| To give some context on what L B said; why would someone spend 10+ years in medical school to become a surgeon when they could just become a janitor and get the same pay and benefits? There is no incentive for people to do more, so naturally they don't. Communism is one of those things that looks alright, or even good, on paper, but fails in implementation. |
carl marx covers this quite well in his book, this is a bad argument my sister explained to me why, watch this space I will get back to you.
EDITIII:
| Communism trends towards totalitarianism which makes it dystopian in my book. |
it doesn't trend toward totalitarianism its just that so far the state rather than being a simple exchange has always hijacked the power, once this has happened it no longer is communism.
Its my belief that humans cannot escape their system just like the bees could not get a democracy to work, we will always have one system; the protection racket system.
It comes down to one thing, pay your taxes and dont interfere with growth or our organisation and muscle will throw you in a cell
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Communism is ideal system. And there is nothing ideal in real world. You can't make someone rich without making someone else poor (or less rich).
The other thing is the government. If it fare, nothing can't go wrong. But in real world it is not possible. In communist Russia if you would say anything wrong about government you would be put in prison without trail. Authority often tend to overuse their power to get more than normal citizens, etc..
Good capitalism is better (like old US - now-day America is manipulated in more debt by private federal bank).
"You have what you worked for" - that's perfect for me (thats why i dont like socialism - why paying someone who doesnt want to work when you spend 40 hours a week in job).
#edit fixed some grammar
The other thing is the government. If it fare, nothing can't go wrong. But in real world it is not possible. In communist Russia if you would say anything wrong about government you would be put in prison without trail. Authority often tend to overuse their power to get more than normal citizens, etc..
Good capitalism is better (like old US - now-day America is manipulated in more debt by private federal bank).
"You have what you worked for" - that's perfect for me (thats why i dont like socialism - why paying someone who doesnt want to work when you spend 40 hours a week in job).
#edit fixed some grammar
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Tath, you clearly don't understand how socialism works (under more modern interpretations). And if you really think old American capitalism was best then you are either ignorant, a man of greed, or wholly a fool.
| tath wrote: |
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| Communism is ideal system. And there is noting ideal in real world. |
I wouldn't say either of those things. The biggest problem with [ideal] communism is it relies on a great deal of trust, and also that people aren't greedy. Neither of which are true.
Communist ideas work extremely well in very small circles of people... but the more people you add the more difficult it is to sustain. Something large scale like an entire nation I agree could never work. Human nature just contradicts it.
| You can't make someone rich without making someone else poor (or less rich). |
This is so not true. Not even of capitalism.
But of course... "rich" is a subjective term. Maybe we have different ideas of what "rich" is.
| The other thing is the government. If it fare, nothing can't go wrong. But in real world it is not possible. In communist Russia if you would say anything wrong about government you would be put in prison without trail. Authority often tend to overuse their power to get more than normal citizens, etc.. |
Communist countries tend to be more totalitarian... which is somewhat necessary to enforce it, but ironically contradicts its core principles. This is probably why there hasn't been a functional communist nation yet.
China is functional, and claims to be communist, but the income gap and work conditions are severe to the point where it's basically communism in name only.
| Good capitalism is better (like old US |
Define "old US" capitalism.
Anything before the industrial revolution was horrible. In fact the industrial revolution was probably the low point of the country in terms of wealth distribution and work conditions. The general public was basically a slave class.
Capitalism has to be tempered with social policies or it simply doesn't work. It's just as broken as communism is.
Modern US capitalism is actually pretty close to what would be "best". The only problem is we've let businesses corrupt the government to the point where it might not be recoverable.
There has to be a clear line between governmental interest and business interest, and that line has gotten blurred. The government needs to stifle business when necessary to protect individuals, while still encouraging economic growth. Government's primary goals have to match those of the people. When the government's goals match those of the businesses, things start to get ugly.
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