Do you think anybody can be a programmer and do you think it should be taught in elementary school?

[AlitCandle]

I'm thinking no to both questions, but yet when I am on Youtube I see adverts with Mark Zuckerberg and Bill Gates telling everybody to go and program when most people can't even do basic algebra.


EDIT:Found it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmM_xDzy2nU

Wtf is Will.i.am on there too?

[N36fSL3A]

no because too many little kids trying to become script kiddies already.

[andywestken]

Do you think anybody can be a [professional] programmer [?]

Nope - I think that you've got to have certain traits to be a professional programmer (or even want to become one?). The kind of person who likes to solve puzzles, who is interested in technology, can be focused, ...

But I do think that everyone is capable of writing simple programs and could therefore become a programmer in the looser sense.

[Do] you think it should be taught in elementary[/primary] school?

Yes. If a simplified langauge is used and the focus is on problem solving, where I am thinking about the kind of problems that turn up in finance, engineering, etc.

Learning to solve problems will be useful in all walks of life; it's financially cheaper to do with computers than in real life, and easier to set simplified problems.

Andy

[G309216C]

Well, Yes anyone can become programmers at any age but the thing which is a major downfall is Skids Copy Pasting which finally results in them becoming forever driven into copy paste.

I am in school and I never copy paste it is just about not getting ahead of your self. Go Slow and Steady you will never copy paste.

The thing is I met many Young Programmers like my self but withing few years they got a ahead of themselves and as they did not understand how to do something they copy and pasted and that's when they slowly get killed by copy pasting.

Of course in the "Industry" , I wouldn't say Copy Pasting is bad as the clients want work done so fast that, there is no time for messing around with codes.

But especially in the AV development field it is a NO NO! As many of Malwares disable AV's and copying one AV code will mean if a Malware Author finds a Way to disable the AV code you stole, this would mean your AV would be disabled.

[devonrevenge]

yeah I think anyone can be a programmer like anyone can be very good at maths, its not that some people aren't designed for maths and programming its that some approaches to learning it only work for some people while others work in other ways.

skids need some other kind of route to learning it i reckon, java is proly the answer, its easy and quickly gratifying, maybe then they could work towards something more finely tuned like c++

[G309216C]

Agree, with Devonrevenge. He actually said it better than I can say it.

Java program source codes are like everywhere. So for skids it is a like being a king.

[Thumper]

Fredbill30 wrote:

no because too many little kids trying to become script kiddies already.

So narrow minded. Need I remind you that you are still one of these 'little kids' to the rest of the world.
I think basic programming should be taught in elementary schools yes. But not to make everyone programmers. It's not about whether there will be more of these "script kiddies" which you seem to hate so much. It's about learning. I think exposing children to these logical systems will help them vastly in studies. Programming helps you learn how to think.

[3qX21hU5]

Fredbill in probably at least 60% of the threads you have posted in you have used the words "Script Kiddie's" at least once and usually more. What is up with you and calling everyone else script kiddies?

Especially since not to long ago you yourself were complaining about being called a script kiddie? http://www.cplusplus.com/forum/lounge/94311/#msg506379 So are you really that narrow minded as to label people something you yourself hate being labeled as?

We know you are 12 but I will say it once again just because you are young doesn't mean you need to act immature!

[devonrevenge]

@fredbill https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ir-jKSDZYY

[andywestken]

Of course in the "Industry" , I wouldn't say Copy Pasting is bad as the clients want

I see copy and pasting as very bad.

(Edit: not sure I'm thinking of copy and paste in quite the same sense?)

There are times when it's expedient to copy and paste a little bit, to hit a deadline. But under normal circumstances, any significant bit of code should be factored out into a common library and then used in all the places it's needed. While this takes a little bit more time in the short term, it pays off in the mid to long term.

(Copying small bits of functions doesn't count, esp. if their routine. I assume, of course, that no bit of code is copied if it is not fully understood.)

Of course, copy and pasting does go on. But when you've been tasked to propagate a fix to all copies of a defective paste a few times, you learn not to do it.

Andy

PS The reason limited copy and paste would be acceptable near a deadline is that it could require less rebuilding. Any full rebuild would, of course, require full retesting.

For example, you have a function which is already being used in only one DLL/shared object but at the last moment, you find you need the same code to fix a problem in another module. Ideally you would factor the code out into the appropriate shared library and rebuild everything. But if you've already unit tested everything, you only really want to rebuild and unit test the module you fixed. So you copy and paste the required bit of code.

But what you also do, as soon as you ship, is repair the library before moving on to work on the next release of the application (if there is going to be one).

Note that I where I've worked, the unit in unit test usually mean an API (i.e. the external calls of a module). Though we do also use some lower level unit tests which work against a class or function, or group of them.

[G309216C]

Of course I do not mean copying whole project but copying like say 4 - 10 lines is nothing compared to Enterprise Level Application Development which is usually around 10,000 - 200,000 lines of code. I am sure you would understand what I mean.

Besides I think using 3rd Party Libraries is much more wrong than Copy Pasting in Enterprise Application as if any error or mistake arises in the 3rd Party code it would be disastrous for the whole application as the 3rd party developers need to correct the fault.

But whom am I , to talk to as I have not actually been in Real-Time development but in Semi-Real Time situations.


Thanks,

[z05DSL3A]

Do you think anybody can be a programmer?
No. I know lots of people that haven't got a logical bone in their body,

Do you think it should be taught in elementary school?
Yes (I think). I think that people should be exposed to many different subjects early on in their lives to give them the best opportunity to find what they are good at.

[ResidentBiscuit]

I know lots of people who would likely never be able to program anything of any meat no matter how much time they put it into it. Contrary to what left-wing society may say, we are not all equal.

[devonrevenge]

I think if you were going to be tested in a year and if you weren't good you would be shot, you will find that any human could learn programming very well, the problem with learning is the context, I wonder how many methods of learning there is and if there is a test to find which one is most effective for you

[3qX21hU5]

There is a big difference between knowing how to program and being able to program. I know a whole bunch of people that know all about a language and its features but have no idea how to create a real world program.

They just don't have the logic that is needed to take on such a task. Which isn't a bad thing because they also have their strengths in different areas.

So my opinion is yes anyone can learn how to program and no not anything can program (If that isn't to confusing).

[ResidentBiscuit]

Somewhere out there (I might find it later) there was a study about this. They tested students before their first programming class, and then again after the class with some pretty basic programming-ish questions. Sure enough, there was a significant number of people who saw little to no improvement.

[helios]

This is the study Residentbiscuit refers to:
http://www.eis.mdx.ac.uk/research/PhDArea/saeed/paper1.pdf

I'm of the idea that, while improvement depends upon practice, how good you can possibly get depends on innate capacity.

[N36fSL3A]

i made that thread because this one serious script kiddie highschooler (This time he was actually a script kiddie) said I was a script kiddie because I said I program in C++ and he uses Cheat Engine...

60 percent of all my post don't contain the word script kiddie.

[3qX21hU5]

You just said it 3 times in your reply...

It seems awfully hypocritical to whine about being called a script kiddie then go on and call everyone else script kiddies...

I'm also noticing a weird trend I look in the lounge forum and every last reply to the posts is Fredbill except for a few (IE 3 threads out of the 19)... And all them posts are either a single sentence post about nothing of relevance...

But this conversation won't lead to anything good so I will drop it.

[N36fSL3A]

I was just telling you why i use the "forbidden word".

Yea I post so much lately because I feel really good on all my grades BESIDES math.

I do help: http://prntscr.com/161mn2