Me and a couple friends are attempting to make a text based game with about a months worth of c++ knowledge. we are relatively fast learners and would like a pro to accompany us in developing the game for educational purposes. we have all pretty much taught each other but there are somethings we cannot do and posting every problem on here doesn't seem like a well off solution either.

I can try and help, not that great however i'll look at it as a leraning experience :)

Posting every problem on here may well be a good solution. Not only will it get your problems resolved, but other people with the same problem might be helped by your threads, especially if you give the topics good, descriptive titles.

Instead of wasting your time on text-based games, why not just jump into graphical based games via the SDL2 or SFML 2.1 libraries?

I wouldn't say it is a waste of time to do a text-based game. Focusing on a text-based game, especially with only a months worth of experience, lets them stick to just C++ and not overwhelm them with learning the language and an API on top of it.

and an API on top of it.

iostream isn't an API?

iostream an API and is a part of the C++ Standard (part of learning the language), but telling them to learn a second API (SDL/SFML) is terrible advice because then they have to battle learning the language, learning a second API (SDL/SFML), then having to battle learning all the nuances of making a 2D game (quite a lot to take in for only a months worth of C++ experience).

Rather than sidetrack the thread, I'll just say I disagree and leave it at that.

I don't understand why my post was reported. I simply suggested learning an API. Text based games aren't easier than Graphical-based games in any way.

BHX Specter wrote:
(part of learning the language)

Technically, the standard library is just a library. It isn't actually a part of the language. I can program C++ just fine without using the standard library.

second API (SDL/SFML) is terrible advice because then they have to battle learning the language, learning a second API (SDL/SFML), then having to battle learning all the nuances of making a 2D game (quite a lot to take in for only a months worth of C++ experience).

I disagree with you. I find it perfectly possible to learn the C++ language along with an external library, in fact, I did so myself.

What API do you recommend we use SDL/SFML?

I'd recommend learning SDL2. It's much more lightweight than SFML, and can run on pretty much any device made in the past decade or two. Mind that you should probably write a wrapper over it (which you should do with any library IMO) to make it work with your project since it's in C.

Don't get me wrong, SFML is great. It's uses OOP concepts (but you should still write a wrapper over it for any moderately large project to ease porting), and has a lot of extra features. This sadly makes the executable larger than SDL.

Whichever you pick, make sure you use the latest versions of the libraries, not outdated ones.

Fill me in on all these words like wrapper and opp and imo

IMO = "in my opinion"

OOP = "object oriented programming", which is a concept that revolves around using encapsulated objects which provide an abstract interface. IE: using an encapsulated library is typically much easier because it's harder to screw up -- you have a simplified interface presented to you and cannot tinker with things which might make it break.

wrapper = A wrapper is a layer of code between your program and the library. So rather than your program using SDL directly, you would use a wrapper (which would just be a series of functions and/or classes). That wrapper would do the actual SDL calls.

The reason a wrapper can be beneficial is that is abstracts the API, which makes it more portable. If you need to port to a platform where SDL is unavailable... instead of having to go through your entire program and change all the SDL calls to something else... you only have to change the wrapper.


Though using a wrapper for SFML/SDL is overkill for a small hobby project.

@Disch
It is already sidetracked. We are discussing this in the Jobs forum.

@Avilius
I never said it wasn't possible, just that I consider it bad advice. I used to think like you and used to tell people to learn C++ and Allegro at the same time everywhere I went (before SFML/SDL were even options). It wasn't until I saw so many beginners struggling with their games because they didn't have a firm grasp on C++ and the Standard Library that I started saying not to jump straight into using other libraries, but to focus on C++ only until you are comfortable with it and then learn other libraries.

Avilius wrote:
I can program C++ just fine without using the standard library.

So can I. Doesn't mean we should.

When most programmers (at least the ones I know and myself included) say you have to be comfortable with C++, we are also meaning to be comfortable with the C++ Standard Library too.

Being part of GD.Net, here, Allegro, SFML, Flipcode, Quora, CProgramming.com and several other sites that have game development forums, I have seen time and time again where someone doing a 'simple' 2D game has more issues with the language than the library and once they know the language the library starts just clicking for them. This is what has changed my opinion to learn the language first and avoid a lot of headaches later.

His questions make me stand more to my point of learning C++ first before even attempting to pick up SDL/SFML.

you sound like you really know what your doing is there anything i can offer for you to help us and advise us on the way.

@zukmeku
I may be able to help in my spare time. Do you have a Skype?

BHX Specter wrote:
I never said it wasn't possible, just that I consider it bad advice. I used to think like you and used to tell people to learn C++ and Allegro at the same time everywhere I went

I feel that a months time to get familiar with C++ is enough to move on. Graphics libraries aren't very hard to get used to.

BHX wrote:
It is already sidetracked. We are discussing this in the Jobs forum.

Oh, so it's okay in the Jobs forum, but not the Lounge?

It's interesting how you continue to find excuses for why it's okay to go off-topic when you are the one going off-topic... yet when someone else goes off-topic you scream your head off and report them.

EDIT: although admittedly I haven't seen you do that recently -- unless you are the one who reported Avilius.

Disch wrote:
unless you are the one who reported Avilius.

Any issues I have with a user I use the report system at the bottom of the page or directly converse with Twicker through PMs. The only times I've used the report button is for spam threads with tons of links.

Disch wrote:
It's interesting how you continue to find excuses for why it's okay to go off-topic when you are the one going off-topic... yet when someone else goes off-topic you scream your head off and report them.

Again, I directly talk to twicker or use the report link and not the report buttons as I get tired of seeing users go on about how they were reported or wonder why they were reported. What you should find more interesting is that when I first got here, I was repeatedly told not to go off-topic by veteran members (yourself included) while you all took threads off-topic and now you all are criticizing me for the same behavior. Guess we are all just a bunch of hypocrites when it is all said and done. The old "Do as I say, not as I do" attitude.

@zukmeku
I personally would recommend SFML over SDL because SFML is a c++ api while SDL is c. I find SFML to be extremely easy to understand and use, but this is personal preference.

BHX Specter wrote:
What you should find more interesting is that when I first got here, I was repeatedly told not to go off-topic by veteran members (yourself included) while you all took threads off-topic and now you all are criticizing me for the same behavior. Guess we are all just a bunch of hypocrites when it is all said and done. The old "Do as I say, not as I do" attitude.

IIRC you had a tendency to have side arguments/conversations that were off-topic to the threads. That is not the same as when a topic changes naturally as the conversation progresses.

And BTW since we're already off-topic, why was your previous accounts post count merged with your current account's?

naraku9333 wrote:
And BTW since we're already off-topic, why was your previous accounts post count merged with your current account's?

Post counts don't matter and I don't recall post count every coming up in the discussion me and twicker had when I requested them merged. I requested it so I could more easily find my older posts I had done.