Idiot-proof Yes/No Input

[helios]

"pronunciation" as pro-nun-see-a-shon

According to my translation dictionary, that's the correct form; and according to Wiktionary, the other one is nonstandard (whatever that's supposed to mean).

[DrChill]

Acceptable slang perhaps?

[Duthomhas]

[edit] I had to pick the kids up from the bus-stop so the thread has progressed somewhat since I began typing this... [/edit]

That's just it.

When confronted with something new/alien/unfamiliar (and computers are these things to most people -- even those who have been forced to use them at work for years), all prior knowledge goes out the window, except for the worst kind of logics.

A mathematician or linguist would be unlikely to make an error when reading "Press any key". His education better intersects the programmer's. However, a normal muggle hasn't a clue what the different parts of speech are called, let alone how to understand normal language.


MLA == Modern Language Association
http://www.mla.org/

APA == American Psycological Association
http://www.apa.org/

Their committees review grammar, etc yearly (usually) and make revisions. Their publications on the matter define "correct" English when used in scholarly contexts. A relatively recent consideration is that when it makes a difference the period can be placed outside of the quotes.

The American/English style stuff is just current trend; it is not codified outside of actual usage.


I once had an argument with a friend (from Michigan) about the pronunciation of the word "roof". He said "rʌf" (in IPA). I said "ruf". We sounded like a couple of dogs barking at each other as we went down the hallway.

We looked it up.

You can properly say it either way.


As a kid, I used to pull out my dictionary and read it for hours. I eventually learned to "dumb down" my language with others, since it usually went right over people's heads. (And it is sure annoying to have to repeat yourself a different way two or three times for every stinking sentence.)

Heck, most average people can't follow complex thoughts anymore. They need a talking head to give them the correct "sound bites" in the proper order to "get it". (Frustrates me no end.)

Alas.

[helios]

However, a normal muggle hasn't a clue what the different parts of speech are called, let alone how to understand normal language.

When I was still "normal" (I'll tentatively agree with you that programmers are not quite that) I did know how to break down sentences, and I didn't need to study linguistics to know how to do it; I just had to spend a few years in the public education system. Again, I don't see how someone who's gone to high school could not do it.

We sounded like a couple of dogs barking at each other as we went down the hallway.

I know exactly what you mean. I used to spend hours debating with my friends the correct pronunciation of the English "u" in different contexts ("punk", "bug", etc.). It was basically a stream of alternating "ponk"s and "pank"s.

As a kid, I used to pull out my dictionary and read it for hours.

You too? My dictionaries are some of my most valuable possessions. One set is now 56 years old.

[chrisname]

muggle

We're not in Harry Potter, are we?

I agree with what you said, Duoas.

As a kid, I used to pull out my dictionary and read it for hours. I eventually learned to "dumb down" my language with others, since it usually went right over people's heads. (And it is sure annoying to have to repeat yourself a different way two or three times for every stinking sentence.)

Really? Personally, I enjoy the looks of confusion on people's faces when I use words like "ergo" in real life. Maybe I'm just more mean-spirited than you :)

[DrChill]

I still don't know what ergo is ...(just not that curious)

And hurrah for Duoas.

[chrisname]

Goorate!
http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=define%3A+ergo
(Google-based karate).

[Duthomhas]

Again, I don't see how someone who's gone to high school could not do it.

There's a very popular TV game show here called "Are You Smarter than a 5th Grader?". They only ask questions taught through (US) 5th grade, but there are ever so many people that can't do it. (Though, they seem to get some really clueless people playing...)

In my fourth year Spanish class the girl seated in front of me actually said "Por favor, pase el pencilo." Good grief! How did she get through first year Spanish!? (They wouldn't let me take advanced Spanish after a year and a half.) It's not even a word. For crying out loud!

Just because people have been forced through the public education system doesn't necessarily mean they have learnt much of anything.

A lot of people can't do much more than add and subtract and some basic multiplication and division (times tables under 9 or 10), nor do anything more complex than identify individual nouns and verbs in a sentence and the subject of the sentence. Things like "antecedent" and "indirect object" sound familiar, but they are long forgotten trivia.

People know what they use regularly. A carpenter knows all about wood and woodworking tools. He can name stuff we don't know exists. He can identify different types of planes and their uses. He doesn't need to know the difference between a simile and a metaphor.


Er, I'm off to watch a movie with the family. Later!

[DrChill]

What Duoas said sounds good but I lost track of who he responded to ... and also which movie are you watching and (I assume by the time you read this the movie will have been watched by you(which is how my brain trys to pull off sentences when I break my trail of thought)) is the movie very good? I love watching movies :)

[helios]

Instant Spanish: Just add water an o at the end of every word!

[DrChill]

inito programo ando useo Uint32o

int main(){
  string eng = "init program and use Uint32";
  string words[20];
  breakArray(eng, words);
  int i = 0;
  while(words[i]){
    words[i] += "o";
    cout << words[i] << " ";
  }
}

And all them durn comanies spend all thur moneyw writin expensive program

perfect MWAHAHAA

[Duthomhas]

@helios
Al fin aprendí el español tras otras medias.

...que me hace pensar... tengo que dar un discursito sobre el honradez el Domingo (en español, pues). Y todavía no he preparado nada...

I-o habl-o el espanish-o much-o.

@DrChill
Disney's Atlantis: Milo's Return. The first film was much better, but this one had its good spots, and aside from Kida's turning into a real blonde steriotype, and the increasingly unbelievable stunts (notwithstanding fantasitc elements), the characters were pretty true to themselves. If you go and get it off your shelves, make sure to watch the deleted scene when you are done for a nice, creepy twist. :-)

#include <iostream.h>
void main()
  {
  cout << "I iz haxor n0w!\n";
  }

[gcampton]

Duoas wrote:

I mentioned memes. We know how to respond to things like "Press any key" because we have been taught --if not about that specific phrase then we have been taught the proper way to read such a sentence. A programmer's education necessarily involves some degree of formal, analytically logical thinking.

I think most programmers (at least people who become programmers and don't drop out after first year) are logical thinkers to begin with.
I was always told I was too logical as a child (I'm sure that translated to "No fun")....

[DrChill]

...que me hace pensar... tengo que dar un discursito sobre el honradez el Domingo (en español, pues). Y todavía no he preparado nada...

Attempting Yahoo babel fish ...
Failed.
Doing rough translation by hand ...

>Duoas
I saw the first one when I was 10, but I never saw any after that, though I might think about renting it now ...

[chrisname]

@Duoas,
I think the indentation should go more like this:

  #include         <iostream.h>
void main()
{
 cout << "I iz haxor n0w!\n"  ;
     }

[Duthomhas]

Wow, Babel Fish massacred that.

Most directly translated, it is:
"...which makes me think... I have to give a little talk [discourse] about honor [on] Sunday (in Spanish, of course). And I still haven't prepared anything..."

#include <disclaimer.h>
#include "main.c" 

XD

[chrisname]

Here's Google translate ( http://translate.google.com )'s version:

I finally learned the Spanish after the other half.

... which makes me think ... I have to give a little speech about honesty on Sunday (in Spanish, then). And I have not prepared anything ...

¿Cómo se habla español?

[Duthomhas]

I'm impressed. The Google translation did a lot better than I would have expected.

The first sentence is "In the end [finally] I learned Spanish by [through] other means [media]."

Sorry I left that off.... What really impressed me is that it gave "pues" a pretty good translation -- I used it quite idiomatically there.

I learned a lot of it in San Diego, CA, which is mostly Mexicans, but with a good mixture of South Americans, and by reading a lot, and for other (good) reasons I'll leave off. I'm sure my Spanish isn't anywhere near as good as helios's English, but it is still pretty good. Two of my best friends, who are from Guatemala, speak flawless Spanish, and have taught me a lot also.

The tough thing about Spanish in the USA is that people grow so accustomed to English structure that a lot of times native speakers will use English constructs, even though they are speaking Spanish words.

For example, a sentence like "No hay nada picante que no puede pasar por mi boca" would confuse a lot of North Americans because of the double-negative, which is generally absent in English. The people I've met who come more from the south end of Mexico (like Puebla) tend to get it though.

Meh. Whatever. I enjoy it.

Next I want to learn Gaelic.

[helios]

Actually, that's not a double negative, but it's easy why you'd make that mistake. "Nada" can also mean "very little", so "no hay nada" really means "there's not even very little". "Termino/Vuelvo en nada" is a very common expression in some parts.

Am I the only one who locks up when asked poorly phrased negative interrogatives? One time I was asked "does the new one not work?" (the ambiguity is lost in the translation, so you'll have to trust me that it sounded odd) and, after a long pause trying trying to decipher the meaning with a painful look on my face, I said "no" (i.e. "no, it doesn't not work"). "The new one" referring to something relatively expensive and new, the reaction let me know I had chosen the wrong interpretation of the question.

[Duthomhas]

No hay nada picanta que no puede pasar por mi boca

In English you say
There is very little that is spicy that I can not eat.

Hmm, you're right. Crud. Too bad my brain befuddled me.

How about this:

Nada impuro no puede estar en la presencia de Dios.

It's past time for bed anyway...