Giving Answers
Is there anyone else out there who gets frustrated when someone just gives answers out instead of helping the person come up with their own answer?
I know it gets to me, especially when someone posts homework.
I know it gets to me, especially when someone posts homework.
closed account (N36fSL3A)
Yep, it really makes me cringe in side. I mean at least explain it for them.
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I don't mind it some times to show an example(basic) if it looks like the op is actually trying to learn because then they will ask questions about what you posted and make their attempt while looking at the working version you showed. But you have to see the op is willing to learn and not copy/paste.
closed account (oGwfSL3A)
I can't stand it. Like not to long ago, after two people already said they couldn't do the OP's homework, some other guy went ahead and did their homework anyway!
Actually someone posted their homework last night and again today and someone ended up seeing the question and just gave him the code. Not commented, and the post itself was literally just code.
I guess a part of me feels somewhat bad when I reconcile with the fact that the homework was done wrong and it would be blatantly obvious that he didn't follow the rules and used someone else's code.
I guess a part of me feels somewhat bad when I reconcile with the fact that the homework was done wrong and it would be blatantly obvious that he didn't follow the rules and used someone else's code.
closed account (G30GNwbp)
Almost every homework answer to anything posted in the beginners section can be found with a simple query on a search engine.
So what difference does it make, If you give them the answer or not? You can't teach a cheat because they have disrespect tor knowledge.
If you are such a control freak that it is important to you that people learn to do their own homework, I would suggest posting wrong answers. That way they'll be forced to learn a little just checking your work.
So what difference does it make, If you give them the answer or not? You can't teach a cheat because they have disrespect tor knowledge.
If you are such a control freak that it is important to you that people learn to do their own homework, I would suggest posting wrong answers. That way they'll be forced to learn a little just checking your work.
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If they are going for a programming degree yes. If not, then no. There have been people on here going for a non programming degree and forced to take a programming course.
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It's still a good skill to have, even if you are forced to take it you might as well learn as much of it as you can.
As for me it annoys me slightly but if they are serious about programming they will ask more questions, if they aren't they will fail their course sooner or later for taking shortcuts so it is more on them then the people posting the answers from what I see.
As for me it annoys me slightly but if they are serious about programming they will ask more questions, if they aren't they will fail their course sooner or later for taking shortcuts so it is more on them then the people posting the answers from what I see.
I think it is important to tailor an answer appropriately. Sometimes an answer will involve partial solutions.
Any hacker worth his salt is interested in helping others understand what they are doing, more than just doling out answers.
Particularly as there is often more than one way to phrase an answer (in concrete code, I mean). I'd rather work with someone to refine their own answer, according to their own understanding, than give op an answer and say, "this is how it is done," leaving him (or her) to try to figure out my own idiosyncrasies.
The place for giving answers is in things like Articles, where the answer and its reasons, and possible variations, can be explained properly.
While at Rutgers I had the misfortune to have class several times with a student who didn't actually want to do his own work. I had to collaborate with him on an assignment once. He didn't actually want to work together with me -- he suggested we just split the work and submit it together -- a clear indication of not wanting to actually learn. He was very insistent. I agreed against my better thoughts. And if you look at the final result, I'm sure the only reason we passed is because I volunteered the harder stuff -- there was no compare between his work and mine.
The very next year he had the gall to come and ask me if I wouldn't do a CS homework assignment for him, and he'd pay me twenty bucks. I shrugged him off as gently as I could, but he was actually upset. He just didn't understand why I wouldn't, and became rude.
His was a standout case, but he wasn't unique. A good number of students just want to pass the course. They aren't in it for actual understanding.
It is the students who actually care, and want to learn, that I respect. The time I spent in the computer labs was often filled by helping other students -- people who actually wanted to learn.
I don't have any problem weeding out posters who just want a quick answer and posters who want actual help to find their own solution.
Any hacker worth his salt is interested in helping others understand what they are doing, more than just doling out answers.
Particularly as there is often more than one way to phrase an answer (in concrete code, I mean). I'd rather work with someone to refine their own answer, according to their own understanding, than give op an answer and say, "this is how it is done," leaving him (or her) to try to figure out my own idiosyncrasies.
The place for giving answers is in things like Articles, where the answer and its reasons, and possible variations, can be explained properly.
While at Rutgers I had the misfortune to have class several times with a student who didn't actually want to do his own work. I had to collaborate with him on an assignment once. He didn't actually want to work together with me -- he suggested we just split the work and submit it together -- a clear indication of not wanting to actually learn. He was very insistent. I agreed against my better thoughts. And if you look at the final result, I'm sure the only reason we passed is because I volunteered the harder stuff -- there was no compare between his work and mine.
The very next year he had the gall to come and ask me if I wouldn't do a CS homework assignment for him, and he'd pay me twenty bucks. I shrugged him off as gently as I could, but he was actually upset. He just didn't understand why I wouldn't, and became rude.
His was a standout case, but he wasn't unique. A good number of students just want to pass the course. They aren't in it for actual understanding.
It is the students who actually care, and want to learn, that I respect. The time I spent in the computer labs was often filled by helping other students -- people who actually wanted to learn.
I don't have any problem weeding out posters who just want a quick answer and posters who want actual help to find their own solution.
Being given answers, spoon-fed, etc. isn't inherently bad. It all depends on the person that is being given the answers, spoon-fed, etc. Good ones will pick apart the code and understand it. Others will just blindly follow it and turn it in.
closed account (3qX21hU5)
This is partly the reason why I stopped posting and trying to help in the beginners section of this forum.
I always get so frustrated when I take 15 minutes to write up something explaining where the posters problems are, what he should look into, pasting small examples or what have you and then a post or two later another person comes along and just corrects his/her code and gives the poster the correct code.
Though I guess I can't get to mad at the people who do this because it seems most people would rather have answers given to them then to actually do the work of figuring it out themselves. This is evident by most of the posts in the beginners section where it is obvious the poster didn't put any real effort into figuring it out by themselves and instead after 5 minutes of the compiler spitting out error they head straight to a forum to ask for the answer.
So I guess it is not so much people just posting the answers that annoys me it is the fact that they are encouraging people to just expect the answers to be given to them that does. I mean now days it is common for a beginner to go straight to a forum to ask how to fix something when he hits a problem. Not step through the code with a debugger (Heck most don't even know what one is yet alone how to use it which is insane), or do research on the problem, or even just take a few minutes to think it over.
Another thing that really bothers me sometimes is when beginners are trying to teach other beginners despite not fully understanding the subject. I am no expert or anything but at least I will stick to helping people with the thing I know.
But them are whole different matters all together. So to answer the OP yes it gets on my nerves a lot.
I always get so frustrated when I take 15 minutes to write up something explaining where the posters problems are, what he should look into, pasting small examples or what have you and then a post or two later another person comes along and just corrects his/her code and gives the poster the correct code.
Though I guess I can't get to mad at the people who do this because it seems most people would rather have answers given to them then to actually do the work of figuring it out themselves. This is evident by most of the posts in the beginners section where it is obvious the poster didn't put any real effort into figuring it out by themselves and instead after 5 minutes of the compiler spitting out error they head straight to a forum to ask for the answer.
So I guess it is not so much people just posting the answers that annoys me it is the fact that they are encouraging people to just expect the answers to be given to them that does. I mean now days it is common for a beginner to go straight to a forum to ask how to fix something when he hits a problem. Not step through the code with a debugger (Heck most don't even know what one is yet alone how to use it which is insane), or do research on the problem, or even just take a few minutes to think it over.
Another thing that really bothers me sometimes is when beginners are trying to teach other beginners despite not fully understanding the subject. I am no expert or anything but at least I will stick to helping people with the thing I know.
But them are whole different matters all together. So to answer the OP yes it gets on my nerves a lot.
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Who else would the beginners have to go to besides other beginners if the experienced programmers are too busy being pissed annoyed about giving answers to questions?
Something everyone needs to understand is that legit beginners are struggling with learning C++, learning to be better at problem solving, and trying to understand the advice given to find answers. I've been doing this for a long time and there are some replies to questions I asked or helped answer questions where other replies just made me think "WTF does that mean?!" Just like with Disch's NES Emulator thread, I've been doing it long enough that I should have known most of it no problem, but I found myself reading the thread and seeing others get his post and understand it while I set there feeling like I could have been trying to read Japanese or something.
I've seen several threads on the beginner thread where a beginner had a very serious question about homework, was given the clue to find the answer, and genuinely seemed to have no clue what they (the helper) were talking about.
I've said it before, and I will continue to say it. I've been programming with C++ for 17 years and to this day still consider myself a beginner. Users have asked how I can do that and I pushed it off to my confidence issues, but that was a lie just so I didn't make anyone mad, but now I don't care if I do or not. I will always be a beginner, because I've seen too many programmers get better and suddenly just seem to forget how hard it was for them to start out in programming. I would rather doubt myself and consider myself a beginner, than become so good at it that I forget where I came from and chastise beginners rather than help them. Seems the more experienced you are, the more you realize you don't know, but the more intolerable you become with beginners.
Lastly, debugging, again not the beginner's fault. Look at learncpp.com, it doesn't even cover debugging (except for a mention in one or two tutorials at the start) until Appendix A.4 and A.5. The tutorials here don't even have anything on debugger or debugging. You can't fault a beginner for what the places that claim to give them the tools to start in programming and fail to do just that.
Every reason someone has given not to give answers and shock over what they don't know, to me, are huge bells, whistles, lights, sirens, and flags waving that they need guidance. Instead, they get a thread whining about how they are given answers.
This is the first time I think I have actually been so disgusted at a thread that I am actually considering leaving the site. This thread makes me feel like you don't want to help beginners just because others give them answers and to me that is just ridiculous and wouldn't want to be part of a site that gets so hung up over how beginners are helped as I feel any way, shape, or form should be taken to help them, even giving them the answers.
[EDIT] Typos
Something everyone needs to understand is that legit beginners are struggling with learning C++, learning to be better at problem solving, and trying to understand the advice given to find answers. I've been doing this for a long time and there are some replies to questions I asked or helped answer questions where other replies just made me think "WTF does that mean?!" Just like with Disch's NES Emulator thread, I've been doing it long enough that I should have known most of it no problem, but I found myself reading the thread and seeing others get his post and understand it while I set there feeling like I could have been trying to read Japanese or something.
I've seen several threads on the beginner thread where a beginner had a very serious question about homework, was given the clue to find the answer, and genuinely seemed to have no clue what they (the helper) were talking about.
I've said it before, and I will continue to say it. I've been programming with C++ for 17 years and to this day still consider myself a beginner. Users have asked how I can do that and I pushed it off to my confidence issues, but that was a lie just so I didn't make anyone mad, but now I don't care if I do or not. I will always be a beginner, because I've seen too many programmers get better and suddenly just seem to forget how hard it was for them to start out in programming. I would rather doubt myself and consider myself a beginner, than become so good at it that I forget where I came from and chastise beginners rather than help them. Seems the more experienced you are, the more you realize you don't know, but the more intolerable you become with beginners.
Lastly, debugging, again not the beginner's fault. Look at learncpp.com, it doesn't even cover debugging (except for a mention in one or two tutorials at the start) until Appendix A.4 and A.5. The tutorials here don't even have anything on debugger or debugging. You can't fault a beginner for what the places that claim to give them the tools to start in programming and fail to do just that.
Every reason someone has given not to give answers and shock over what they don't know, to me, are huge bells, whistles, lights, sirens, and flags waving that they need guidance. Instead, they get a thread whining about how they are given answers.
This is the first time I think I have actually been so disgusted at a thread that I am actually considering leaving the site. This thread makes me feel like you don't want to help beginners just because others give them answers and to me that is just ridiculous and wouldn't want to be part of a site that gets so hung up over how beginners are helped as I feel any way, shape, or form should be taken to help them, even giving them the answers.
[EDIT] Typos
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I think mostly the only questions I've asked on this forum is "Why am I getting this specific error", and this is only after MSDN and Google fail me... Often I get a simple answer that doesn't explain an awful lot but that's all I need, as long as I have an English answer instead of what the compiler brings I'm usually good to struggle through and work it out myself.
I notice that whenever you see a homework assignment it's always "How do I do this", so I place a tiny portion of blame on the OPs, technically people are only answering there questions, it's the OP who's not asking for the explination... Then when they get an answer you can tell the people who are actually interested in there work will pick apart the code given and ask about certain areas. The ones who are going to fail in there courses are the ones who will just except any blind answer and throw it into the compiler...
Although I still have to say yes, I don't like the "Here you go" answers for a lot of cases... Bare in mind that's all you need sometimes though (if you've been doing this long enough to pick it apart yourself and understand why this code does what it does).
I notice that whenever you see a homework assignment it's always "How do I do this", so I place a tiny portion of blame on the OPs, technically people are only answering there questions, it's the OP who's not asking for the explination... Then when they get an answer you can tell the people who are actually interested in there work will pick apart the code given and ask about certain areas. The ones who are going to fail in there courses are the ones who will just except any blind answer and throw it into the compiler...
Although I still have to say yes, I don't like the "Here you go" answers for a lot of cases... Bare in mind that's all you need sometimes though (if you've been doing this long enough to pick it apart yourself and understand why this code does what it does).
I'm with BHXSpecter on this one (never thought such a day would come).
No, it doesn't frustrate me. Because I know, and I've seen, that beginners who really want to learn will follow up on the "teaching posts" with questions. If they do otherwise, it means I wasted my time anyway and people posting the solution are doing me a favor by stopping me from wasting even more.
| Protomega wrote: |
|---|
| Is there anyone else out there who gets frustrated when someone just gives answers out instead of helping the person come up with their own answer? |
No, it doesn't frustrate me. Because I know, and I've seen, that beginners who really want to learn will follow up on the "teaching posts" with questions. If they do otherwise, it means I wasted my time anyway and people posting the solution are doing me a favor by stopping me from wasting even more.
No, there is a difference between those who are making an effort, and those who won't.
/foo
"Hey, I can't understand how to do a + b."
/me
"Well then, here's some links you should click that will give you some reading to help. Pay attention the part where it says quux, and fix lines x and y. (The reading I linked for you [top five in Google search] even has links to examples in code!)"
/foo
"Can you give me a complete, working example?"
/me
"You can't click a link?"
/foo
"Hey, I can't understand how to do a + b."
/me
"Well then, here's some links you should click that will give you some reading to help. Pay attention the part where it says quux, and fix lines x and y. (The reading I linked for you [top five in Google search] even has links to examples in code!)"
/foo
"Can you give me a complete, working example?"
/me
"You can't click a link?"
closed account (30X1hbRD)
@Duoas,
Well I personally prefer it when people just explain simply because I commonly get provided virus-infested links.
Well I personally prefer it when people just explain simply because I commonly get provided virus-infested links.